LED diffuser retrofit?

jrp1588 · 12/04/2016, 10:47 AM

Watching a couple recent videos from BRS on YouTube, it seems like some LED manufacturers are starting to offer diffusers to aid in color mixing and reduce hotspots. Where I work, we have frosted vinyl that gives glass a frosted look. It would take only a few minutes to apply to the glass of my Reefbreeders fixture. It would certainly be a cheap and easy retrofit. Unfortunately I don't have a par meter to run before and after testing though. Anyone have any thoughts? Would this work optically as well as true frosted glass?

Ron Reefman · 12/05/2016, 09:54 AM

three points:

I think the frosted glass will reduce the PAR some, although I'm not sure how much. My best guess having dealt with a big, salty glass center brace, it isn't much.

I don't find my RB fixtures have any 'hot spots' as the leds are so spread out.

Will a diffuser or frosted glass help with blending in the reds & greens which are the major source of the dreaded disco effect? Maybe some. But turning them off or covering them with black tape works even better. And there is more than enough red and green spectrum in the white leds IMHO.

jrp1588 · 12/05/2016, 10:15 AM

Check out Brs's recent video on the subject. I think par was reduced by 10% or so, but color mixing and disco effect were drastically improved. Without a diffuser, spectrum was all over the place and varied constantly with ripples at the surface. With it, spectrum was much more consistent. I might see if we have some scrap frosted vinyl that I can slap on there for a subjective test

jayball · 12/05/2016, 11:52 AM

If you look up diffusion panels or film you will find, typically, between a 10 and 20 % loss of light (from my experience looking, I am sure there are some well outside these numbers). I like the look of diffused LED's personally.

mpierce · 12/05/2016, 01:22 PM

https://www.inventables.com/technolo...diffuser-films

Used it on a DIY. Good stuff.

zooman72 · 12/05/2016, 01:59 PM

The Philips CoralCare that BRS tested experienced some 20% loss with the diffuser in place vs when it was taken off IIRC - just something to think about. If one can afford that much loss of PAR, then it might be acceptable to reduce color banding and improve color blending.

One can also simply hang the fixture higher (or remove all secondary diode lenses to possibly achieve the same effect), which also has the added benefit of making servicing easier when the light is always out of the way...

jrp1588 · 12/05/2016, 02:03 PM

I've got loads of free scrap frosted vinyl. I'm going to give it a shot. If need be, I'll turn up my LEDs a bit to compensate if I like the effect.

zooman72 · 12/05/2016, 02:08 PM

Don't forget to report back with your findings...

jrp1588 · 12/05/2016, 02:09 PM

Unfortunately without a par meter, my findings are going to be 100% subjective. I'll do what I can though.

jrp1588 · 12/06/2016, 08:20 AM

Results were a bit disappointing. Install was of course super easy, and only took a minute or so. To my eye, it's cutting the light drastically though. Maybe a less opaque film would be better. As for disco effect, it was slightly reduced, but I've never had it really bad anyway. Color blending wasn't noticeably improved, but again, was never bad in the first place. I did run a sheet of copy paper a few inches below the light with the film on it, and an unmodified light for comparison. It is certainly doing the job, colors blended a lot more smoothly. I just didn't think it was worth the drop in intensity.

HippieSmell · 12/06/2016, 10:54 AM

Vinyl probably isn't the best material. I'd look for something made of acrylic or polycarbonate. I briefly tested a cheap acrylic prismatic diffuser from Menards that did OK, and has near 90% transmission according to their website. Makrolon or Makrofol also looks interesting, if you can find it.

jrp1588 · 12/07/2016, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HippieSmell

Vinyl probably isn't the best material. I'd look for something made of acrylic or polycarbonate. I briefly tested a cheap acrylic prismatic diffuser from Menards that did OK, and has near 90% transmission according to their website. Makrolon or Makrofol also looks interesting, if you can find it.

I think I'm just not going to bother. The reefbreeders lights have a pretty good spread. I will say I did just add a sand bottom to my tank before, where I was previously bare bottom. Now that there's a white sand bottom, the shimmer is somewhat more distracting.

zooman72 · 12/07/2016, 03:19 PM

Raising the light higher above the aquarium (if you can do it) will help mitigate the shimmer and color separation.

jrp1588 · 12/07/2016, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zooman72

Raising the light higher above the aquarium (if you can do it) will help mitigate the shimmer and color separation.

I'm aware. I HATE all the light spillage though. Plus the glare of looking up at the fixture.

12/04/2016, 10:47 AM	#1
jrp1588 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 1,864	LED diffuser retrofit? Watching a couple recent videos from BRS on YouTube, it seems like some LED manufacturers are starting to offer diffusers to aid in color mixing and reduce hotspots. Where I work, we have frosted vinyl that gives glass a frosted look. It would take only a few minutes to apply to the glass of my Reefbreeders fixture. It would certainly be a cheap and easy retrofit. Unfortunately I don't have a par meter to run before and after testing though. Anyone have any thoughts? Would this work optically as well as true frosted glass?

12/05/2016, 09:54 AM	#2
Ron Reefman Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Cape Coral, FL Posts: 10,431	three points: I think the frosted glass will reduce the PAR some, although I'm not sure how much. My best guess having dealt with a big, salty glass center brace, it isn't much. I don't find my RB fixtures have any 'hot spots' as the leds are so spread out. Will a diffuser or frosted glass help with blending in the reds & greens which are the major source of the dreaded disco effect? Maybe some. But turning them off or covering them with black tape works even better. And there is more than enough red and green spectrum in the white leds IMHO. __________________ The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it. (Neil deGrasse Tyson) Visit my build thread http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2593017

12/05/2016, 01:22 PM	#5
mpierce Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: EC, WI Posts: 133	https://www.inventables.com/technolo...diffuser-films Used it on a DIY. Good stuff. __________________ 40B / 20L sump, custom stand - Kessil A160WE, RO 110 classic, Kalk dosing, Apex, MP10QD http://www.tcmas.org/v4/forums/showthread.php?49391-Pierce-s-40-breeder 120 - RETIRED

12/05/2016, 01:59 PM	#6
zooman72 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Lockport, NY Posts: 1,340	The Philips CoralCare that BRS tested experienced some 20% loss with the diffuser in place vs when it was taken off IIRC - just something to think about. If one can afford that much loss of PAR, then it might be acceptable to reduce color banding and improve color blending. One can also simply hang the fixture higher (or remove all secondary diode lenses to possibly achieve the same effect), which also has the added benefit of making servicing easier when the light is always out of the way... __________________ 7 reef tanks, 5 freshwater tanks, 2 terrariums, 2 dogs, 3 boys, and 1 very understanding wife! Current Tank Info: Marine: Pair of 40B's, 45W, 50g cube, ADA 45F at home...IM Nuvo 20 and 10 at office!

12/05/2016, 02:08 PM	#8
zooman72 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Lockport, NY Posts: 1,340	Don't forget to report back with your findings... __________________ 7 reef tanks, 5 freshwater tanks, 2 terrariums, 2 dogs, 3 boys, and 1 very understanding wife! Current Tank Info: Marine: Pair of 40B's, 45W, 50g cube, ADA 45F at home...IM Nuvo 20 and 10 at office!

12/05/2016, 10:15 AM	#3
jrp1588 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 1,864	Check out Brs's recent video on the subject. I think par was reduced by 10% or so, but color mixing and disco effect were drastically improved. Without a diffuser, spectrum was all over the place and varied constantly with ripples at the surface. With it, spectrum was much more consistent. I might see if we have some scrap frosted vinyl that I can slap on there for a subjective test

12/05/2016, 11:52 AM	#4
jayball Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,671	If you look up diffusion panels or film you will find, typically, between a 10 and 20 % loss of light (from my experience looking, I am sure there are some well outside these numbers). I like the look of diffused LED's personally.

12/05/2016, 02:03 PM	#7
jrp1588 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 1,864	I've got loads of free scrap frosted vinyl. I'm going to give it a shot. If need be, I'll turn up my LEDs a bit to compensate if I like the effect.

12/05/2016, 02:09 PM	#9
jrp1588 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 1,864	Unfortunately without a par meter, my findings are going to be 100% subjective. I'll do what I can though.

12/06/2016, 08:20 AM	#10
jrp1588 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 1,864	Results were a bit disappointing. Install was of course super easy, and only took a minute or so. To my eye, it's cutting the light drastically though. Maybe a less opaque film would be better. As for disco effect, it was slightly reduced, but I've never had it really bad anyway. Color blending wasn't noticeably improved, but again, was never bad in the first place. I did run a sheet of copy paper a few inches below the light with the film on it, and an unmodified light for comparison. It is certainly doing the job, colors blended a lot more smoothly. I just didn't think it was worth the drop in intensity.

12/06/2016, 10:54 AM	#11
HippieSmell Occupy Reef Central Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Orbiting Posts: 4,141	Vinyl probably isn't the best material. I'd look for something made of acrylic or polycarbonate. I briefly tested a cheap acrylic prismatic diffuser from Menards that did OK, and has near 90% transmission according to their website. Makrolon or Makrofol also looks interesting, if you can find it. __________________ Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like bananas. Current Tank Info: 78"x36"x27" acrylic, 6 Orphek Atlantik V3+ Compacts, MRC Orca Pro II w/washdown, CalcFeeder Pro AC3, Emperor Aquatics 80w UV, 80/20 aluminum stand, Vortech MP60's, Theiling Rollermat, GHL Profilux 3.1T EX, Kessil H380

12/07/2016, 03:19 PM	#13
zooman72 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Lockport, NY Posts: 1,340	Raising the light higher above the aquarium (if you can do it) will help mitigate the shimmer and color separation. __________________ 7 reef tanks, 5 freshwater tanks, 2 terrariums, 2 dogs, 3 boys, and 1 very understanding wife! Current Tank Info: Marine: Pair of 40B's, 45W, 50g cube, ADA 45F at home...IM Nuvo 20 and 10 at office!