Protein Skimmer vs Algae

[curlykid]

So a few months ago i had major algae problems, luckily they subsided. Now i see a small cluster of bubble algae in my reef. It really annoys me how when i get a spark of interest in the tank, i see something bad. In my attempt to lower nutrients and rid my system of phosphates, i am going to buy a protein skimmer. My question is, is it possible to lower phosphates and nitrates to zero by use of a protein skimmer? Or will it have to be assisted by a media reactor?

[adamstipo]

Originally Posted by curlykid

So a few months ago i had major algae problems, luckily they subsided. Now i see a small cluster of bubble algae in my reef. It really annoys me how when i get a spark of interest in the tank, i see something bad. In my attempt to lower nutrients and rid my system of phosphates, i am going to buy a protein skimmer. My question is, is it possible to lower phosphates and nitrates to zero by use of a protein skimmer? Or will it have to be assisted by a media reactor?

It is unlikely that a skimmer alone will bring those things down to zero. Yes you can definitely lower those things but to bring them to zero is unlikely. For the phosphates GFO will definitely help. For Nitrates their are many things out their that claim to help, I just keep it simple though and keep my nitrates down with skimming and weekly water changes.

[curlykid]

i forgot to mention that i do weekly 40% water changes. (10 gallons out of 25). so will i have to run GFO in a reactor?

[pskelton]

What kind of filtration have you been using? How old is your tank?

[TimeConsumer]

There are several methods of nitrate and phosphate reduction that are used. Chemically, there are a lot of options such as GFO and denitrifiers. Physically, water changes and skimmers can help. Biologically there are a lot of options, deep sand beds, macro algae cultivation, algal turf scrubbers, and organic carbon (vodka) dosing. Do some research and find out which method will work best for you.

I personally use a deep sand bed and macro algae.

Keep in mind if you plan to use vodka or certain denitrifying chemicals that a protein skimmer is a requirement, as it removes the bacterial bloom caused.

[chasedasea]

+1 on skimmer not being a full proof solution. Where are you getting your source water? Have you tested it before adding to your tank? Last year I was getting RO/DI from a LFS and kept having algae problems, I tested the source water and the phosphates and nitrates were ridiculously high. Needless to say that LFS has closed soon after, I'm sure I wasn't the only one being duped. Anyway my current LFS sells natural seawater and RO/DI so I do 50/50 and haven't had a problem since.

[adamstipo]

Originally Posted by curlykid

i forgot to mention that i do weekly 40% water changes. (10 gallons out of 25). so will i have to run GFO in a reactor?

With that being the case then I would say Nitrates should be the least of your worries. I would run some GFO in a reactor, and make sure your only using RO/DI water. If you do those two things in conjunction with skimming I don't see any reason why you should have problems under a normal bioload.

[curlykid]

the tank is 3 yrs old. i have had only one major problem with algae last year, but always had small amounts of algae breakouts here and there. i use an inTank media basket with filter floss, chemipure elite, and purigen. I've been thinking lately about replacing the live rock with dry rock, but seeding it with small pieces of my current rock.
EDIT: hmm, a reactor on a 28 gallon tank...kind of odd.

[adamstipo]

Originally Posted by curlykid

the tank is 3 yrs old. i have had only one major problem with algae last year, but always had small amounts of algae breakouts here and there. i use an inTank media basket with filter floss, chemipure elite, and purigen. I've been thinking lately about replacing the live rock with dry rock, but seeding it with small pieces of my current rock.
EDIT: hmm, a reactor on a 28 gallon tank...kind of odd.

What is odd about that?? Many run reactors no matter the size of their tanks.

[curlykid]

really? i've only seen fairly large tanks with reactors. i should be ordering one this weekend, so i'll update on this issue next week.

[adamstipo]

Originally Posted by curlykid

really? i've only seen fairly large tanks with reactors. i should be ordering one this weekend, so i'll update on this issue next week.

Do you have a sump? If so then their is nothing odd at all about it, if no sump it may be a little different but would still work.

[nanojg]

Good skimmer plus carbon dosing = 0 nitrates and phosphates. Well phosphates might not go all the way down to zero but they will get close enough. Some people have to use GFO in addition to carbon dosing.

[nanojg]

Originally Posted by curlykid

really? i've only seen fairly large tanks with reactors. i should be ordering one this weekend, so i'll update on this issue next week.

I use a little DIY reactor for my nano tank (made out of 3" pvc) and a dual brs reactor for my 90 gallon.

[TimeConsumer]

Originally Posted by nanojg

Good skimmer plus carbon dosing = 0 nitrates and phosphates. Well phosphates might not go all the way down to zero but they will get close enough. Some people have to use GFO in addition to carbon dosing.

+1 on the vodka and skimmer.

And I noticed the OP mentioned above he uses Chemipure Elite. That contains a little bit of GFO. Not as much as a reactor, but it should be enough to make a dent.

What levels are the nitrate and phosphate in your system?

[curlykid]

my crappy test reads 0 but i think otherwise.

[TimeConsumer]

As aggressive as your water changes are I can believe it. Though you may have a small amount of bubble algae, that's not always a sign on elevated levels of nitrate and phosphate, a little bit of algae will grow regardless. Now if you're getting out of control growth that's a different story.

I wouldn't jump to adding in a GFO reactor to your system at this point. I think you'd be better of starting with a skimmer and manually removing the algae you're seeing. Get another test kit for nitrate and phosphate, one with a low range test like salifert and monitor your levels carefully. If your levels of nitrate and phosphate are high then look at adding something to drop nutrient levels. I would either begin a vodka dosing regimen or add in a refugium and use chaeto as a nutrient sink, or you can use the reactor if you wish. But I think if you're going to have one piece of equipment on there, a skimmer should be the first choice.

Do you have a sump or will you be doing everything HOB?

[curlykid]

i will be doing everything HOB, i can't upgrade my tank until i hit a little money in the stock market. Planning on getting a CAD pro someday, they're great tanks. The algae growth isn't too bad but im getting these weird brownish-gold blotches of algae, they appear calciferous.

[curlykid]

could my rocks be harboring phosphates? i have a very large rock that has an extensive amount of caverns in it including an extremely large cave which takes up a lot of space. planning on replacing my aquascape with dry rock.

[TimeConsumer]

Originally Posted by curlykid

could my rocks be harboring phosphates? i have a very large rock that has an extensive amount of caverns in it including an extremely large cave which takes up a lot of space. planning on replacing my aquascape with dry rock.

Hm, I've never heard of it before, but I suppose anything is possible. I wouldn't jump to any extreme measures just yet. I think your best route would be to start by getting some more accurate readings of your tank water and the water you use in your water changes.

If you notice phosphate above .25ppm or nitrate above 5-10ppm then I would take some steps to correct it. But one bag of chemipure elite should be enough to keep your phosphate below that, as long as you change it out monthly.

And my recommended path of correction would be to add a HOB skimmer and then proceed to either dose vodka, or add a HOB refugium. These would correct both nitrate and phosphate, as opposed to GFO which will only correct phosphate.

[curlykid]

i do have microbacter and biofuel from brightwell. isn't that the same thing as vodka basically?

[TimeConsumer]

Originally Posted by curlykid

i do have microbacter and biofuel from brightwell. isn't that the same thing as vodka basically?

Sure is, just more expensive.

[curlykid]

haha, i don't think i could get it across my parents that the vodka is for dosing!

[TimeConsumer]

Originally Posted by curlykid

haha, i don't think i could get it across my parents that the vodka is for dosing!

It's worth a shot. And if they do let it fly, think of the bonuses! They might get a little suspicious when you're going through 3 bottles a week though. You can also use vinegar. Just make sure you read up on the process before you start a dosing regimen. And a skimmer is a must for dosing organic carbon sources. Check out this article: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php

[curlykid]

hmm, sounds interesting. so will vinegar have the exact same effect?

[TimeConsumer]

Sure will, but read up to make sure the type of vinegar and proportions to use. I'm not too familiar with using it as opposed to vodka