Mystery larva

kizanne · 08/26/2018, 11:51 AM

Here is my best stitch

kizanne · 08/26/2018, 11:56 AM

Choices are
yasha goby
Tangoroa goby
Catalina goby
Fire fish
Dragon face pipefish

Science tells me not pipefish based on numbers. There were several hundred best guess 500.

Don't think Catalina even though I think my boy is tending eggs they just seem to long and skinny.

So I think yasha or tangaroa. That tank has a pair of each.
Could be fire fish still trying to figure out their reproduction. I've read multiple things from forums having trouble scoring a reliable scientific resource.

kizanne · 08/26/2018, 05:05 PM

I was on my phone before. Here's some additional information. The larva was visible to the naked eye and seemed between 1/8 and 1/4 in long.

I'm leaning toward the Nemateleotris exquisita I have found literature now that say they lay eggs an tend to them for about 96 hours. I've noticed my one firefish with a normal belly one day and a pinched belly the next sporadically. I think that is the female and the pinched is simply shortly after laying more eggs. One stays in this open cave with a sandy bottom almost all day while the other hovers outside. There was a third they chased off. The larva are very long and skinny; but not thread like they was pipe fish are described plus pipes would only be 20 or so.

The larva were also in the corner that is inhabited by the firefish, tangoroa and yasha. Since I didn't see them come out of the whole/den could still be the catalinas who are in the middle of the tank. BUT I think the catalinas would not reach the shear number. There were 500 or more. I think the catalina's would be 200 or so. And the babies were seen gathered in a corner versus the middle. Note the catalina's have definately been gravid and the boy seems to be guarding his cave.

The Yasha were purchased as a pair and share a cave. They are very reclusive so no idea what they are doing. Looking at pictures of bella goby fry mine seem longer and skinnier. Tangoroa used to be a trio have narrowed to a pair and could also be the lucky parents but see yasha reasoning.

I don't think I have the right stuff for these to make it to meta so I'll probably never know but I am putting a clock on it and 'the next batch' may shed some light on timing. the yasha's and tangoroa should have more of a 12 to 14 day cycle the fire fish could be less than that. I'm not often staring at the tank at 11 am so I may not see the next batch.

kizanne · 08/26/2018, 05:12 PM

Whatever they are I have placed them in a green water container with all sizes of brine, some copepods but not parvocalanus mostly I think tiggers maybe some tisbe. Some insuforia which has I think ciliates, nematodes, rotifers (not many), maybe some tetra something motile and about 15 microns. The green is mostly nanno. I also gave it some chaeto and prolifera. I don't anticipate ever seeing them again but that was the best I could do right now. I found an article where fire fish has been raised the first 7 days on euplotes and then rotifers til 19 dph then bbs. I put in 20-100 larva (I spread some to other tanks as well) to see what might happen. The main tank inhabitants wiped the remaining babies pretty fast. I think I was north of 500. I pulled about 100, and left the rest for the new pipefish who haven't switch to mysid yet.

kizanne · 08/26/2018, 08:32 PM

Not much of an update but I have seen them this evening. They are still phototactic and survived transfer. They are maybe 500-600 microns based on seeing them beside some rotifers. I don't think they are big enough to eat the rotifers. though the big rotifers will have babies maybe the newly hatched will be small enough.

kizanne · 08/28/2018, 06:43 AM

36 hph last night and I was able to still find a few in the bucket.

The bucket is hard to see into so I was happy to see any.

kizanne · 08/28/2018, 12:25 PM

I now am thinking maybe the Catalina Goby as I knew he was guarding but couldn't see the egg mass. Yesterday evening my female who was gravid is now not gravid so I think that his batch was the spawn and then she laid more eggs. I have now found literature that support and average of 835 eggs / clutch so that also matches the large number I was seeing. so I may have more come Friday though I most likely won't see them.

The shape is still a little fishy being the parents are short and squat and the fry were long and skinny but stranger things have happened. I wish some would make it to meta so I could see more and figure this mystery out.

Found the below research picture of the Catalina at http://online.sfsu.edu/fishlab/Fishl...e_Research.pdf

Different angle but could definitely be my fish. So thinking catalina right now.

kizanne · 08/28/2018, 01:03 PM

Some how my stitch is gone here it is again this is my fish and I'm comparing to the above research picture.

Hodad2 · 09/04/2018, 07:09 PM

Excellent! Congratulations! Hey have you looked at that site I told u about? MBIsite.org? They also have a Facebook page where you can post that pic for ID. Someone will know for sure. A lot of the professional hatchery managers are MBI members and post so,e cool stuff.

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Hodad2 · 09/04/2018, 07:09 PM

Any updates?? What else you working on?

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Hodad2 · 09/04/2018, 08:01 PM

Just moved my Blennies to grow out By the way. https://youtu.be/_CB3BWvyI5E

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08/26/2018, 11:51 AM	#1
kizanne Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: North Florida Posts: 646	Mystery larva Here is my best stitch __________________ Successfully bred: Banggai, Lined Seahorse, Saltwater Mollies, from egg dwarf cuttlefish, peppermint shrimp, Opae Shrimp. Saltbabies.com Algae Barn Discount Code: saltbabies15 Current Tank Info: 120 gallon seahorse/flame angel/sharknose/pipefish tank. 30 gallon grow out, misc. other tanks

08/26/2018, 11:56 AM	#2
kizanne Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: North Florida Posts: 646	Choices are yasha goby Tangoroa goby Catalina goby Fire fish Dragon face pipefish Science tells me not pipefish based on numbers. There were several hundred best guess 500. Don't think Catalina even though I think my boy is tending eggs they just seem to long and skinny. So I think yasha or tangaroa. That tank has a pair of each. Could be fire fish still trying to figure out their reproduction. I've read multiple things from forums having trouble scoring a reliable scientific resource. __________________ Successfully bred: Banggai, Lined Seahorse, Saltwater Mollies, from egg dwarf cuttlefish, peppermint shrimp, Opae Shrimp. Saltbabies.com Algae Barn Discount Code: saltbabies15 Current Tank Info: 120 gallon seahorse/flame angel/sharknose/pipefish tank. 30 gallon grow out, misc. other tanks Last edited by kizanne; 08/26/2018 at 12:40 PM.

08/26/2018, 05:05 PM	#3
kizanne Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: North Florida Posts: 646	I was on my phone before. Here's some additional information. The larva was visible to the naked eye and seemed between 1/8 and 1/4 in long. I'm leaning toward the Nemateleotris exquisita I have found literature now that say they lay eggs an tend to them for about 96 hours. I've noticed my one firefish with a normal belly one day and a pinched belly the next sporadically. I think that is the female and the pinched is simply shortly after laying more eggs. One stays in this open cave with a sandy bottom almost all day while the other hovers outside. There was a third they chased off. The larva are very long and skinny; but not thread like they was pipe fish are described plus pipes would only be 20 or so. The larva were also in the corner that is inhabited by the firefish, tangoroa and yasha. Since I didn't see them come out of the whole/den could still be the catalinas who are in the middle of the tank. BUT I think the catalinas would not reach the shear number. There were 500 or more. I think the catalina's would be 200 or so. And the babies were seen gathered in a corner versus the middle. Note the catalina's have definately been gravid and the boy seems to be guarding his cave. The Yasha were purchased as a pair and share a cave. They are very reclusive so no idea what they are doing. Looking at pictures of bella goby fry mine seem longer and skinnier. Tangoroa used to be a trio have narrowed to a pair and could also be the lucky parents but see yasha reasoning. I don't think I have the right stuff for these to make it to meta so I'll probably never know but I am putting a clock on it and 'the next batch' may shed some light on timing. the yasha's and tangoroa should have more of a 12 to 14 day cycle the fire fish could be less than that. I'm not often staring at the tank at 11 am so I may not see the next batch. __________________ Successfully bred: Banggai, Lined Seahorse, Saltwater Mollies, from egg dwarf cuttlefish, peppermint shrimp, Opae Shrimp. Saltbabies.com Algae Barn Discount Code: saltbabies15 Current Tank Info: 120 gallon seahorse/flame angel/sharknose/pipefish tank. 30 gallon grow out, misc. other tanks

08/26/2018, 05:12 PM	#4
kizanne Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: North Florida Posts: 646	Whatever they are I have placed them in a green water container with all sizes of brine, some copepods but not parvocalanus mostly I think tiggers maybe some tisbe. Some insuforia which has I think ciliates, nematodes, rotifers (not many), maybe some tetra something motile and about 15 microns. The green is mostly nanno. I also gave it some chaeto and prolifera. I don't anticipate ever seeing them again but that was the best I could do right now. I found an article where fire fish has been raised the first 7 days on euplotes and then rotifers til 19 dph then bbs. I put in 20-100 larva (I spread some to other tanks as well) to see what might happen. The main tank inhabitants wiped the remaining babies pretty fast. I think I was north of 500. I pulled about 100, and left the rest for the new pipefish who haven't switch to mysid yet. __________________ Successfully bred: Banggai, Lined Seahorse, Saltwater Mollies, from egg dwarf cuttlefish, peppermint shrimp, Opae Shrimp. Saltbabies.com Algae Barn Discount Code: saltbabies15 Current Tank Info: 120 gallon seahorse/flame angel/sharknose/pipefish tank. 30 gallon grow out, misc. other tanks

08/26/2018, 08:32 PM	#5
kizanne Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: North Florida Posts: 646	Not much of an update but I have seen them this evening. They are still phototactic and survived transfer. They are maybe 500-600 microns based on seeing them beside some rotifers. I don't think they are big enough to eat the rotifers. though the big rotifers will have babies maybe the newly hatched will be small enough. __________________ Successfully bred: Banggai, Lined Seahorse, Saltwater Mollies, from egg dwarf cuttlefish, peppermint shrimp, Opae Shrimp. Saltbabies.com Algae Barn Discount Code: saltbabies15 Current Tank Info: 120 gallon seahorse/flame angel/sharknose/pipefish tank. 30 gallon grow out, misc. other tanks

08/28/2018, 06:43 AM	#6
kizanne Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: North Florida Posts: 646	36 hph last night and I was able to still find a few in the bucket. The bucket is hard to see into so I was happy to see any. __________________ Successfully bred: Banggai, Lined Seahorse, Saltwater Mollies, from egg dwarf cuttlefish, peppermint shrimp, Opae Shrimp. Saltbabies.com Algae Barn Discount Code: saltbabies15 Current Tank Info: 120 gallon seahorse/flame angel/sharknose/pipefish tank. 30 gallon grow out, misc. other tanks

08/28/2018, 12:25 PM	#7
kizanne Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: North Florida Posts: 646	I now am thinking maybe the Catalina Goby as I knew he was guarding but couldn't see the egg mass. Yesterday evening my female who was gravid is now not gravid so I think that his batch was the spawn and then she laid more eggs. I have now found literature that support and average of 835 eggs / clutch so that also matches the large number I was seeing. so I may have more come Friday though I most likely won't see them. The shape is still a little fishy being the parents are short and squat and the fry were long and skinny but stranger things have happened. I wish some would make it to meta so I could see more and figure this mystery out. Found the below research picture of the Catalina at http://online.sfsu.edu/fishlab/Fishl...e_Research.pdf Different angle but could definitely be my fish. So thinking catalina right now. __________________ Successfully bred: Banggai, Lined Seahorse, Saltwater Mollies, from egg dwarf cuttlefish, peppermint shrimp, Opae Shrimp. Saltbabies.com Algae Barn Discount Code: saltbabies15 Current Tank Info: 120 gallon seahorse/flame angel/sharknose/pipefish tank. 30 gallon grow out, misc. other tanks Last edited by kizanne; 08/28/2018 at 12:56 PM.

08/28/2018, 01:03 PM	#8
kizanne Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: North Florida Posts: 646	Some how my stitch is gone here it is again this is my fish and I'm comparing to the above research picture. __________________ Successfully bred: Banggai, Lined Seahorse, Saltwater Mollies, from egg dwarf cuttlefish, peppermint shrimp, Opae Shrimp. Saltbabies.com Algae Barn Discount Code: saltbabies15 Current Tank Info: 120 gallon seahorse/flame angel/sharknose/pipefish tank. 30 gallon grow out, misc. other tanks

09/04/2018, 07:09 PM	#9
Hodad2 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 53	Excellent! Congratulations! Hey have you looked at that site I told u about? MBIsite.org? They also have a Facebook page where you can post that pic for ID. Someone will know for sure. A lot of the professional hatchery managers are MBI members and post so,e cool stuff. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

09/04/2018, 08:01 PM	#11
Hodad2 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 53	Just moved my Blennies to grow out By the way. https://youtu.be/_CB3BWvyI5E Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk