|
04/17/2016, 05:11 AM | #5701 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Boston MA
Posts: 414
|
Quote:
The bottom line is that a 90w Kessil is not a replacement of a 250w metal halide lamp as their efficiency are similar. |
|
04/17/2016, 06:33 AM | #5702 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Waukesha , WI
Posts: 4,998
|
Quote:
Actually that had been fixed. Apogee released the SQ/MQ-500 and the SQ-420 sensors which fix the issues and anyone with the older type can upgrade for a cost. Not saying he didn't use a older one but letting people know the problem is fixed with newer models.
__________________
David Polzin |
|
04/17/2016, 08:24 AM | #5703 | ||
Registered Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Central NC
Posts: 5,062
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
04/17/2016, 09:10 AM | #5704 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,793
|
Quote:
Using raw output is "almost" pointless. An easy way to think about it is if you turned a MH upside down....Great light output but practically zero to the tank.. but one does need to start somewhere.. ONLY a in vivo measurement will be worth much of anything.. FYI.. a Kessil light distribution at 24" plot: One can see where a decrease or parity in efficiency can still lead to a higher "effective" delivery.. http://www.myledlightingguide.com/le...tween-unequals Last edited by oreo57; 04/17/2016 at 09:20 AM. |
|
04/18/2016, 06:57 AM | #5705 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Houma, LA
Posts: 4,743
|
Quote:
__________________
Mark Beware the light at the end of the tunnel. Sometimes it's a train. Current Tank Info: 120, LED, Bare Bottom, SPS/LPS |
|
04/18/2016, 09:07 AM | #5706 |
Registered Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 11,033
|
Thanks oreo. Glad we connect on this.
I have a separate thread where I measure the power and PAR of different multichip LEDs and I've come to the conclusion that DIY fixtures are not all equal. Different chips from different sources are significantly different from their "ratings" Any design that isn't confirmed with a PAR measurement is a wate of time. I wonder what the statistical distribution of PAR and wall-plug efficiency in commercial LED fixtures would look like vs. their promise. What I'm getting at is that the variability in LED results across different users may be because LEDs can be individually different. It's not that LEDs are worse than Halides... It's that your specific LEDs are inferior compared to my Halides or my LEDs. Someone else buying the same fixture may have gotten a better batch of chips. Without measuring PAR, it's a crapshoot.
__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape |
04/18/2016, 09:57 AM | #5707 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Houma, LA
Posts: 4,743
|
Quote:
__________________
Mark Beware the light at the end of the tunnel. Sometimes it's a train. Current Tank Info: 120, LED, Bare Bottom, SPS/LPS |
|
04/18/2016, 10:54 AM | #5708 | |
100-mile-commuter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: almost nevada
Posts: 4,721
|
Quote:
For a mainstream fixture yes. The Chinese black boxes are going to be all over the map.
__________________
Custom electronics purveyor. blueAcro.com Current Tank Info: 90g SPS+mixed reef (10 yrs): LEDBrick LEDs, 40g custom sump, Ca reactor, chiller, Vortech, lots of custom electronics |
|
04/18/2016, 11:13 AM | #5709 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 654
|
|
04/18/2016, 12:09 PM | #5710 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,793
|
Somewhat.. and not without a gooooood look...
To be honest the cheap "Bridgelux" chips run around 50 lumens/watt while current chips (some like the small smd5630's) are now pushing 200 lumens/watt. "Old tech" Metal halides and t5's are still (and will continue to be) around 100lumens/watt Now that is lumens..not PAR ..soo take that into consideration.. As the high output small emitters become more "mainstream" i.e cheaper by volume, things will adjust accordingly.. BTW even buying "name brand" i.e CREE doesn't necessarily mean superior chips.. All have "bins" of varying output and electrical characteristics.. Not even considering drive currents... Pushing cheap Bridgelux to their specs (and probably greatly shortening their lifespan) can produce more or equal output to the finest CREE's run conservatively.. Point is it is not always easy to determine "if" you get what you pay for.. |
04/18/2016, 12:29 PM | #5711 |
Registered Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 11,033
|
Unless you have a PAR meter... Then you'll know
__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape |
04/18/2016, 12:30 PM | #5712 |
Registered Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 11,033
|
By the way, theatrus has a thread on here about a DIY PAR meter and the latest from Apex is a good value (IMO). It's not the super expensive luxury item it used to be.
__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape |
04/18/2016, 12:33 PM | #5713 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 654
|
unless you have the NEW par sensor too...
|
04/18/2016, 12:34 PM | #5714 |
Registered Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 11,033
|
Also, the binning constraint is a very important one. Most of what makes it into the crappy cheap fixtures or DIY chip sources are reject bins. Those LEDs are not all bad, but you need to know what you're getting to accurately determine life, PAR, and thermal management.
Cheap isn't always bad and expensive isn't always good... But knowing and measuring what you have is good, and not knowing is bad... If you know, you can always correct or even throw it away day 1. If you don't, you assume LEDs are bad after your corals shrivel up. Knowledge is your friend...
__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape |
04/18/2016, 01:12 PM | #5715 |
100-mile-commuter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: almost nevada
Posts: 4,721
|
Manufacturers would also be buying or keeping in stock several bins (depending on how they can source them and availability), and blend chips in the fixture to maintain a consistent output to meet their minimum spec (you could get *better*, and I have no idea if anyone is calibrating output levels via software - with swappable emitter boards I doubt it).
The eBay chips are effectively the rejects, but usable - the more it costs the better it will be (kinda). LEDs from main US distributors for Cree/Osram/Lumileds/Bridgelux are generally not guaranteed to be any bin in the cut tape quantities, but in my experience are the middle of the road in desirability of bins (the cut reel will be sold for evaluation purposes, so they don't want to put the worst ones in the mix for a customer). If you're buying whole reels you can generally pick, based on availability (the upper end bins may not even exist in volume production or would only appear years later as fabrication improves) and who has a better purchasing contract than you .
__________________
Custom electronics purveyor. blueAcro.com Current Tank Info: 90g SPS+mixed reef (10 yrs): LEDBrick LEDs, 40g custom sump, Ca reactor, chiller, Vortech, lots of custom electronics |
04/19/2016, 06:28 AM | #5716 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 5
|
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
|
04/19/2016, 08:54 AM | #5717 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Central NC
Posts: 5,062
|
Quote:
Nevertheless, it could still be a light acclimation issue. It's unlikely to be intensity, since the PAR measurements come out quite closely. But it's certainly not impossible for it to be a spectral issue. Quite a number of these colonies color-shift under the Radions. |
|
04/19/2016, 09:26 AM | #5718 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Houma, LA
Posts: 4,743
|
Quote:
__________________
Mark Beware the light at the end of the tunnel. Sometimes it's a train. Current Tank Info: 120, LED, Bare Bottom, SPS/LPS |
|
04/19/2016, 09:35 AM | #5719 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,148
|
Probably because those who start with LEDs already have their schedule and intensity settled and aren't constantly experimenting with settings and mucking everything up. Experimenting with different t5ho bulbs is different since most have the same spectral properties from 380-500nm or at least very similar. Changing out tubes seems to be a gentler process and not many people frequently swap out their Mh bulbs except for when they're spent.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
04/19/2016, 10:14 AM | #5720 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,793
|
Quote:
That is a spectral proportion thing I assume.. of course since spectum control is now in ones own hand instead of a manuf.. well that is an issue right there.. Of course the "opinion" of what is a "correct" color is just an opinion.. but people like "standards".. |
|
04/20/2016, 09:06 AM | #5721 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 365
|
One critical difference between LED and MH or tube is the vast majority of LED reef lights use optics while MH or t5s dont. Take a large 2 foot fresnel lens, mount it in front of your MH, and more than likely youll suddenly have intensity issues and bleaching. LED sources are great for coral. Collimated light sources not so much, and likely accounts for most of the problems with LED. Picked up some frags from a local guy with a 400 gallon display over the weekend. This guy had half a dozen acropora colonies 2 feet in diameter over growing the thing, and he was running all generic LED fixtures.
|
04/20/2016, 09:28 AM | #5722 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Central NC
Posts: 5,062
|
Quote:
My plan is to switch out my main DT to an 8-bulb T5HO unit, but continue to use Radions over my smaller frag tanks. It'll be interesting to see if I can somehow acclimate these strains to Radions. |
|
04/20/2016, 03:35 PM | #5723 |
Registered Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 11,033
|
This aligns with my experience too.
My hypothesis is that fragmented corals have a different biological and chemical response to change. This is how corals reproduce and colonize new regions, so an evolutionary advantage to rapid acclimation makes lots of sense. They can survive many conditions that would kill the mother colony and even push new growth at a superior rate in worse conditions. It's as if they have much more fight in them and that energy is released to grab hold of any opportunity to make it go. Like babies that have special immunity and survival qualities...
__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape |
04/20/2016, 03:40 PM | #5724 |
Registered Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 11,033
|
That extends to much more than light. They just better fighters and survivors. Something in the fragging process triggers a biological change.
__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape |
04/20/2016, 04:52 PM | #5725 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Houma, LA
Posts: 4,743
|
Quote:
__________________
Mark Beware the light at the end of the tunnel. Sometimes it's a train. Current Tank Info: 120, LED, Bare Bottom, SPS/LPS |
|
|
|