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Old 12/27/2017, 05:42 PM   #51
ReefKeeper64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tastyfish View Post
Although off topic for the OP, I agree and this has been my approach. Although I still have them (the small, needle sharp species), their numbers dwindled from thousands to probably only a handful of web-slingers. I removed and replaced half of the rock and I have yet to see any new vermatids colonise it.

I feed three times a day with pellet on an autofeeder and supplement with frozen. I have not used coral food for a long time, which is not going to suit everyone TBH.






Although ReefKeeper is correct, Chloroquine will kill vermatids and other snails, it will kill ALL invertebrates and will likely cause severe ammonia spikes and die off. I would only use this with EXTREME caution. It is certainly NOT a reef safe option.
Compared to other options it makes sense for some but not all. I have done this successfully without issue. If you have a strong filtration system, I would imagine that others can can do this same treatment without having an ammonia spike. CP is also run in display tanks in the retail fish and coral industry. I'm speaking from experience here.

To be fair, this isn't a reef treatment, its a fish only treatment. That means removing all corals and inverts and placing them in a QT tank. The DT becomes a temporary fish only tank. Gradually start the treatment and phase it in over a couple of weeks. Snail and worm die off will occur as desired. If you get an ammonia reading, dose amquil and aerate your tank well. The CP breaks down over time (weeks, not months). amquil and CP are safe together. Again, I've been down this path and tested to be sure. You can remove the CP when ready using carbon and water changes. Add a sacrificial snail to test and when the snail lives you know you are in the clear. Considering the alternatives, this was the best treatment for my situation. It was easy and effective so perhaps this method may help another hobbyist.


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Old 01/06/2018, 07:13 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by ReefKeeper64 View Post
Compared to other options it makes sense for some but not all. I have done this successfully without issue. If you have a strong filtration system, I would imagine that others can can do this same treatment without having an ammonia spike. CP is also run in display tanks in the retail fish and coral industry. I'm speaking from experience here.

To be fair, this isn't a reef treatment, its a fish only treatment. That means removing all corals and inverts and placing them in a QT tank. The DT becomes a temporary fish only tank. Gradually start the treatment and phase it in over a couple of weeks. Snail and worm die off will occur as desired. If you get an ammonia reading, dose amquil and aerate your tank well. The CP breaks down over time (weeks, not months). amquil and CP are safe together. Again, I've been down this path and tested to be sure. You can remove the CP when ready using carbon and water changes. Add a sacrificial snail to test and when the snail lives you know you are in the clear. Considering the alternatives, this was the best treatment for my situation. It was easy and effective so perhaps this method may help another hobbyist.

A friend used CP in the display out of desperation as unable to catch and QT fish. He had massive ammonia spikes which wiped out a good number of his fish in a system over over 1200l.

Itís certainly not something I would advise due to the die off caused.

Can you let me know where Chloroquine is used systematically? AFAIK you cannot test for Chloroquine. It is not known if carbon removes it OR what itís natural breakdown period is (as it canít be tested for).

Would very much like to hear about any tests for Chloroquine you can point me in the direction of as that is its biggest drawback IME in general treatment.


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Old 01/06/2018, 09:39 PM   #53
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If you donít come up with a better solution, then here is a thought.

Remove your corals to a holding tank and dose the display tank with a standard dose of chloroquine phosphate. Just one dose will wipe out your entire snail population. I know because I treated a case of ich this way before. Snails went quick. It took a few weeks after before I could keep snails again. I deplore vermetid snails. Their webs and cones are unsightly. If I ever get a case of these, I wonít hesitate one bit to nuke them this way. The tank will recover in short order and the corals will make it in a holding tank for a few weeks.
Could you please let me know how much you dosed? I'm about to give this a shot and want to make sure I'm dosing enough. It is said that CP will break down in a DT with rock and sand. Did you have to do any additional doses? Did you run any carbon or do water changes when you were done? If so how soon after dosing? From what I've read the standard dose is about 40mg/gallon but could go as high as 80mg/gallon.

Sorry for so many questions. Just seems that you have the experience with some good results.

Thanks in advance.


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Old 01/07/2018, 06:57 AM   #54
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You can tell that you need do dose more when algae starts growing on your glass again.

My experiences are with commercial and personal tanks. In all cases, these are ULN systems and the filtration is able to keep up with the die off. with that in mind, you don’t want to hit your tank hard with a strong dose up front. Rather, you want to slowly introduce this medication. It will absolutely work provided you don’t do this too quickly. Your first sign that the CP is working is that you stop having to clean the glass so often. All algae dies off, snails and worms die off too. If you have a mature tank with lots of worms, then they are going to increase your risk of an ammonia spike.

Now if you detect ammonia with a test kit, then dose amquel. Both products are compatible.

So the truly difficult part is taking this slow while knowing it will work as long as the die off doesn’t all happen overnight. Since I don’t know your tank, I would advise to go ultra slow with 10% of the typical dose added to your tank once per week over a period of up to 10 weeks. The first three weeks you will know if your filtration system can handle the snail the die off. Just keep dosing 10% per week eventually it will kick in. You probably won’t even need to get up to go the full 10 weeks. When all the snails are dead, just leave the med in the tank for another month and enjoy the algae free and snail free look of you new tank. Then introduce carbon and water changes.

To minimize risk, I would not turn off your skimmer at any point and I would also plan to change out your filter socks every couple of days.

Note that the commercial (LFS) tanks and personal tank are all relatively new tanks where CP was planned for from the beginning. The LFS tanks are given small maintenance doses every two weeks or so when the glass starts to show an algae haze. If your tank is mature with lots of worms then you could have die off just like if you dosed prazipro in your DT. Both are safe with caution but you have to go slowly. Both will kill all the worms in your tank and ammonia may become an issue so tastyfish’s story is something to be concerned about. Manually remove all the regular snails and worms you can find with a fish net going through the sand.


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Last edited by ReefKeeper64; 01/07/2018 at 07:18 AM.
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Old 01/07/2018, 05:25 PM   #55
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Great advice! Thank you for taking the time to lay out the procedure. My tank is @ about 10 months old so there are a decent amount of critters around that will die off. I have 13 fish with plenty of rock so with the advice of going slow my bacterial population should be able to handle the load. I will certainly have some Amquel on hand just in case. Still not 100% certain I will do this but leaning heavily in this direction.
Thanks again.


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Old 01/07/2018, 06:01 PM   #56
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A friend used CP in the display out of desperation as unable to catch and QT fish. He had massive ammonia spikes which wiped out a good number of his fish in a system over over 1200l.

Itís certainly not something I would advise due to the die off caused.

Can you let me know where Chloroquine is used systematically? AFAIK you cannot test for Chloroquine. It is not known if carbon removes it OR what itís natural breakdown period is (as it canít be tested for).

Would very much like to hear about any tests for Chloroquine you can point me in the direction of as that is its biggest drawback IME in general treatment.
You can use a spectrophotometer to check levels of CP. The machine is very expensive is the biggest drawback.


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Old 01/07/2018, 07:32 PM   #57
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Great advice! Thank you for taking the time to lay out the procedure. My tank is @ about 10 months old so there are a decent amount of critters around that will die off. I have 13 fish with plenty of rock so with the advice of going slow my bacterial population should be able to handle the load. I will certainly have some Amquel on hand just in case. Still not 100% certain I will do this but leaning heavily in this direction.
Thanks again.
Glad I could help. If you have any other questions, don't hesitate to ask.


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Old 01/07/2018, 07:43 PM   #58
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Glad I could help. If you have any other questions, don't hesitate to ask.
I certainly will. Thanks again.


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Old 01/08/2018, 04:17 AM   #59
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You can tell that you need do dose more when algae starts growing on your glass again.

My experiences are with commercial and personal tanks. In all cases, these are ULN systems and the filtration is able to keep up with the die off. with that in mind, you donít want to hit your tank hard with a strong dose up front. Rather, you want to slowly introduce this medication. It will absolutely work provided you donít do this too quickly. Your first sign that the CP is working is that you stop having to clean the glass so often. All algae dies off, snails and worms die off too. If you have a mature tank with lots of worms, then they are going to increase your risk of an ammonia spike.

Now if you detect ammonia with a test kit, then dose amquel. Both products are compatible.

So the truly difficult part is taking this slow while knowing it will work as long as the die off doesnít all happen overnight. Since I donít know your tank, I would advise to go ultra slow with 10% of the typical dose added to your tank once per week over a period of up to 10 weeks. The first three weeks you will know if your filtration system can handle the snail the die off. Just keep dosing 10% per week eventually it will kick in. You probably wonít even need to get up to go the full 10 weeks. When all the snails are dead, just leave the med in the tank for another month and enjoy the algae free and snail free look of you new tank. Then introduce carbon and water changes.

To minimize risk, I would not turn off your skimmer at any point and I would also plan to change out your filter socks every couple of days.

Note that the commercial (LFS) tanks and personal tank are all relatively new tanks where CP was planned for from the beginning. The LFS tanks are given small maintenance doses every two weeks or so when the glass starts to show an algae haze. If your tank is mature with lots of worms then you could have die off just like if you dosed prazipro in your DT. Both are safe with caution but you have to go slowly. Both will kill all the worms in your tank and ammonia may become an issue so tastyfishís story is something to be concerned about. Manually remove all the regular snails and worms you can find with a fish net going through the sand.
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Originally Posted by Dmorty217 View Post
You can use a spectrophotometer to check levels of CP. The machine is very expensive is the biggest drawback.
That's really interesting, thanks. Looks like they range from about $2500-$12,000 and upwards, plus software and the ability to actually interpret the results...

Slowly building up the dose makes sense, so long as you do not go beyond the target dose. What level would you envisage going to? I would use 12mg/l of cholorquine for treatment of cryptocaryon in most fish - however I'm not sure this would be needed for inverticide!?


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Old 01/08/2018, 07:23 PM   #60
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That's really interesting, thanks. Looks like they range from about $2500-$12,000 and upwards, plus software and the ability to actually interpret the results...

Slowly building up the dose makes sense, so long as you do not go beyond the target dose. What level would you envisage going to? I would use 12mg/l of cholorquine for treatment of cryptocaryon in most fish - however I'm not sure this would be needed for inverticide!?
We usually use CP purchased from fishman chemical dot com. Lately I've switched to the off the shelf version since we have it in stock. Its called new life spectrum called ick shield powder. You can read the ingredients online. new life spectrum is reputable and uses a form of CP that has been proven to work just as effectively as fishman's. My last use of it was to cure a powder blue tang of ick. It worked fine and the power blue has been healthy for a few months now. I wouldn't go to the bother with the cost of getting a vet prescription for CP unless I had a buddy who could write a prescription for free. If you go with the over the counter version, just follow the instructions on the bottle and use the 10% per week formula based off of that. I would not go to 100% over 10 weeks unless you still have Vsnails in your tank. I doubt you will need to go beyond 5 weeks but I've never gone that slow so I don't really know for sure. Plus again, every tank is unique. It will be safe and will work. I'm only going into this much detail because I had a case of vermetid snails years ago and would have paid dearly for such a simple method to get rid of them. Figured I'd pass on what I know now. Good luck again.


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Old 01/09/2018, 08:11 PM   #61
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I have a small fighting conch and a few nassarius snails I am going to need to pull out and put in a holding tank. Anyone know if they can survive without a sand bed for a few weeks? I thought of putting a couple of large zip lock containers on the bottom of the holding tank filled with some DT sand for them to live in. What do you think would be my best option?
Thanks.


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Old 01/09/2018, 10:30 PM   #62
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People keep snails in bare bottom tanks all the time. They will happily clean the glass even if there is no sand. Just put a little fish food in the holding tank so you get a little build up of algae on the glass.

Make sure your snails aren’t carrying any vermetid snails or their eggs with them. You should have plenty of time to find out while they are In your holding tank. If you see signs of pests/vermetid snails or webs in your holding tank, chuck em or put them back in the ocean if you live are near one.

When your treatment is over, your tank will still be fully cycled and 100% pest free. That is, no aptasia, no vermetids, no ick, no velvet, no red bugs, no worms, nothing but healthy fish.


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Old 01/09/2018, 10:48 PM   #63
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Thank you. My above sand snails are all getting a good look over with a shell brushing. Just wasn't sure about my sand sifters. Holding tank is pretty well established with plenty of algae so I'm assuming they will be ok.


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Old 01/10/2018, 08:09 AM   #64
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chuck em or put them back in the ocean if you live are near one.

No, never do this! Even with something apparently heathy you can introduce non-native species or diseases to the wild - and especially in this example, when you already know you are dealing with an invasive pest!



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Old 01/10/2018, 07:45 PM   #65
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No, never do this! Even with something apparently heathy you can introduce non-native species or diseases to the wild - and especially in this example, when you already know you are dealing with an invasive pest!



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In my case, I'd chuck em in the garbage but you just know that the minute I said that, someone would accuse me of being a snail killer!


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Old 01/11/2018, 01:04 PM   #66
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I finished removing the coral and snails last night from my 600gal display. It's currently fishless.

Going to start dosing CP tonight. Going after flatworms that I haven't been able to kill with levamisole or FWE, Vermatids, Aptasia, and hopefully bubble algae.

I have a massive skimmer and no fish so I am not sure I need to worry too much about an ammonia spike. My plan is to dose 20mg/gal tonight and do an additional dose of 20mg/gal once my resupply of CP arrives on Monday.

I was planning on doing a second 40mg/gal dose around day 10 just to be sure. My display started fallow on Nov 25th so I wasn't planning on adding fish back until Feb 11th and corals/inverts back until mid March. Thinking that should allow plenty of time for the CP to be removed from the system.


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Old 01/11/2018, 05:16 PM   #67
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I finished removing the coral and snails last night from my 600gal display. It's currently fishless.

Going to start dosing CP tonight. Going after flatworms that I haven't been able to kill with levamisole or FWE, Vermatids, Aptasia, and hopefully bubble algae.

I have a massive skimmer and no fish so I am not sure I need to worry too much about an ammonia spike. My plan is to dose 20mg/gal tonight and do an additional dose of 20mg/gal once my resupply of CP arrives on Monday.

I was planning on doing a second 40mg/gal dose around day 10 just to be sure. My display started fallow on Nov 25th so I wasn't planning on adding fish back until Feb 11th and corals/inverts back until mid March. Thinking that should allow plenty of time for the CP to be removed from the system.
This sounds like a solid plan. The only suggestion is you may be able to start adding fish earlier than Feb 11th if you want to. Just monitor for ammonia a week after you have started your CP treatment. If your ammonia is 0, then your biological filtration is working well. You'll be able to treat your fish with CP at the same time as you are treating your tank. This is what I did and it was a home run. Again, only if you want to.


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Old 01/11/2018, 07:24 PM   #68
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I finished removing the coral and snails last night from my 600gal display. It's currently fishless.

Going to start dosing CP tonight. Going after flatworms that I haven't been able to kill with levamisole or FWE, Vermatids, Aptasia, and hopefully bubble algae.

I have a massive skimmer and no fish so I am not sure I need to worry too much about an ammonia spike. My plan is to dose 20mg/gal tonight and do an additional dose of 20mg/gal once my resupply of CP arrives on Monday.

I was planning on doing a second 40mg/gal dose around day 10 just to be sure. My display started fallow on Nov 25th so I wasn't planning on adding fish back until Feb 11th and corals/inverts back until mid March. Thinking that should allow plenty of time for the CP to be removed from the system.
Over the past couple of nights I've been doing the move as well. Last night was the CUC. I will look for any stragglers tonight along with removing my skunk cleaner. After that I'll be ready to go. Probably start tomorrow night if all looks good.

Good luck to you tkeracer619
Hope all goes well.


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Old 01/11/2018, 11:30 PM   #69
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Good luck to you as well.

I'm an hour in, no trace of flatworms. 3x fwe at 1.5x dose and two levamisole treatments couldn't do that. There was still a few hanging out. I feel bad for all the pods and microlife but it had to be done.

I did have to turn my skimmer down. It started to freak out.


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Old 01/12/2018, 04:09 AM   #70
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We usually use CP purchased from fishman chemical dot com. Lately I've switched to the off the shelf version since we have it in stock. Its called new life spectrum called ick shield powder. You can read the ingredients online. new life spectrum is reputable and uses a form of CP that has been proven to work just as effectively as fishman's. My last use of it was to cure a powder blue tang of ick. It worked fine and the power blue has been healthy for a few months now. I wouldn't go to the bother with the cost of getting a vet prescription for CP unless I had a buddy who could write a prescription for free. If you go with the over the counter version, just follow the instructions on the bottle and use the 10% per week formula based off of that. I would not go to 100% over 10 weeks unless you still have Vsnails in your tank. I doubt you will need to go beyond 5 weeks but I've never gone that slow so I don't really know for sure. Plus again, every tank is unique. It will be safe and will work. I'm only going into this much detail because I had a case of vermetid snails years ago and would have paid dearly for such a simple method to get rid of them. Figured I'd pass on what I know now. Good luck again.
Yeah, unfortunately because of medicine licensing and control, we can't get this in the UK (no one is willing to pay the £10,000 licensing/certification costs to import).

I use Avloclor, from an on-line pharmacist (for my up coming trip to the Dominican Republic, of course. )

Should point out, if it hasn't been said already, to remove any algae bed from the system as chloroquine will likely kill it.

Do you have any info on the breakdown time for Chloroquine from your testing with the spectrometer? That would be really useful!


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Old 01/12/2018, 10:56 AM   #71
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Sorry for my long absence, but I'm glad people have taken this over. Life has been busy, and I have temporary lost interest in this research. I will probably take it back up again at some point but here is my current dilemma and why I haven't pursued further. Right now, after a long battle, my tank is finally doing well. My SPS are colored up and growing. I feel that anything I do in the tank to kill vermetids will likely decimate my microfauna population, and i'm not sure I want to do that since i've fought so long to stabilize this tank.

The CP conversation is interesting, and a good alternative if you can keep from reintroducing them on the backs of your snails and frags. Be VERY wary of both situations, and even if you don't see them, there could be some in hard to see places, especially on LPS skeletons. Anything like a branching torch or hammer or sps with dead skeleton underneath where these things could be hiding should go under STRICT extended QT. Inspect/remove any vermetids manually until you are vermetid free for at least 4 weeks. Id consider 3 months.

If possible frag them and reintroduce only living flesh on fresh frag plugs.

One tip: A good spot removal method for QT is to remove them from the water, place a drop of concentrated HCl on them and dissolve the base. That way you are sure not to spread any unseen juveniles/eggs. CAUTION: chemical gloves and goggles are highly recommended for this. Use an eye dropper, not a turkey baster if you attempt this.


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Old 01/18/2018, 09:18 PM   #72
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Update:
I'm in a week now with CP treatment. CP was purchased on Ebay. After moving all inverts from my tank I started dosing. I went a little more aggressive then suggested. Instead of the suggested 10% of suggested dose I dosed equally over 4 days to get my tank up to the recommended dose of 40mg/gal.

Over the first couple of days I did not notice much happening as the CP levels increased. All algae looked unaffected and a margarita snail I missed had appeared and looked okay. Fish were unaffected. Even my six line wrasse was fine. I've read that wrasses may be affected by CP. When I fed or gently stirred the sand I did notice a few webs from some vermetids.

By Day 5 I started to notice the coralline algae slightly starting to whiten in some spots. Some hair algae on my power heads still remained green as well as a small patch of turf algae I have on a rock. I also noticed that while stirring the sand gently and feeding I was not noticing anymore webs. At this point my ammonia had started to creep up to .25ppm (API). Amquel was added.

Now on day 7 of treatment (no more CP has been added) much of my purple coralline is still colored although it continues to whiten slowly across the rocks. Still no webs present when feeding and stirring the sand. Ammonia has gone up to ~ .50 so more Amquel added. All fish look unaffected and are eating great. Margarita snail I believe is dead. It is off the rock it was on and now sits in the sand and hasn't moved since day 6. Haven't pulled it yet to inspect and smell.

Tank has a slight cloudiness to it. Skimmer was shut down at the onset. I tried running it a day ago but it was foaming over enough that it was a problem even when the wedge pipe was fully open so I shut it down. Typically I run it at about 50% open. I'm running 4 T5's for 6 hours out of the day with my Mitras led's only running a 2200k spectrum at about 15% for 12hrs. 6 of them with the T5's.

Not sure how long to run it at this concentration. That's if it even still sits at 40mg/gal.(my original dose) due to chemical breakdown. I will continue to monitor for vermetids for at least another week or two and go from there. If algae starts to show itself on the glass I will probably dose again. How much, not sure. I will cross that bridge if and when it presents itself.

HTH

Current fish List for reference:
Rock Beauty Angel
Flame Angel
Potters Angel
Bangai Cardinal
Pair Ocellaris Clownfish
Orchid Dottyback
Blue Green Chromis
Talbots Damsel
Yellow Tang
Flame Hawkfish
Six Line Wrasse
Royal Gramma


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Old 01/19/2018, 09:58 AM   #73
ReefKeeper64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rc1626 View Post
Update:
I'm in a week now with CP treatment. CP was purchased on Ebay. After moving all inverts from my tank I started dosing. I went a little more aggressive then suggested. Instead of the suggested 10% of suggested dose I dosed equally over 4 days to get my tank up to the recommended dose of 40mg/gal.

Over the first couple of days I did not notice much happening as the CP levels increased. All algae looked unaffected and a margarita snail I missed had appeared and looked okay. Fish were unaffected. Even my six line wrasse was fine. I've read that wrasses may be affected by CP. When I fed or gently stirred the sand I did notice a few webs from some vermetids.

By Day 5 I started to notice the coralline algae slightly starting to whiten in some spots. Some hair algae on my power heads still remained green as well as a small patch of turf algae I have on a rock. I also noticed that while stirring the sand gently and feeding I was not noticing anymore webs. At this point my ammonia had started to creep up to .25ppm (API). Amquel was added.

Now on day 7 of treatment (no more CP has been added) much of my purple coralline is still colored although it continues to whiten slowly across the rocks. Still no webs present when feeding and stirring the sand. Ammonia has gone up to ~ .50 so more Amquel added. All fish look unaffected and are eating great. Margarita snail I believe is dead. It is off the rock it was on and now sits in the sand and hasn't moved since day 6. Haven't pulled it yet to inspect and smell.

Tank has a slight cloudiness to it. Skimmer was shut down at the onset. I tried running it a day ago but it was foaming over enough that it was a problem even when the wedge pipe was fully open so I shut it down. Typically I run it at about 50% open. I'm running 4 T5's for 6 hours out of the day with my Mitras led's only running a 2200k spectrum at about 15% for 12hrs. 6 of them with the T5's.

Not sure how long to run it at this concentration. That's if it even still sits at 40mg/gal.(my original dose) due to chemical breakdown. I will continue to monitor for vermetids for at least another week or two and go from there. If algae starts to show itself on the glass I will probably dose again. How much, not sure. I will cross that bridge if and when it presents itself.

HTH

Current fish List for reference:
Rock Beauty Angel
Flame Angel
Potters Angel
Bangai Cardinal
Pair Ocellaris Clownfish
Orchid Dottyback
Blue Green Chromis
Talbots Damsel
Yellow Tang
Flame Hawkfish
Six Line Wrasse
Royal Gramma
You didn't want to compress the ammonia introduction into such a tight time frame like that. The ammonia level you are seeing is your big concern now as a result of compressing time like that. Raise your skimmer out of the water an inch or so and get it working. Wet skimming is a good idea.

Remember that by introducing Amquel, you are reducing the oxygen level in the water that is available to your fish. A little Amquel is safe but you can only add so much. This is especially of concern if your water is starting to cloud up. If you have an extra pump, put it in your DT facing to the surface to maximize circulation and oxygenation for your fish.


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Last edited by ReefKeeper64; 01/19/2018 at 10:10 AM.
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Old 01/19/2018, 02:18 PM   #74
rc1626
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Long Island
Posts: 445
Daring, impatient, stupid are all ways to describe how I went about this. I will say I was "prepared" and maybe you can add on some of the others.
I've raised my skimmer as you suggested reefkeeper64 and say thank you as I was unaware that Amquel had the effect of limiting o2. Always learning!
My ammonia seems to be on the decline as I tested at 1:00 pm today and the color is somewhere between 0 and .25ppm. Pic attached.
I'm going to continue monitoring ammonia and I have a 50 Gallon batch of fresh saltwater ready to go for a water change if needed.
Thank you again reefkeeper64. Hopefully there won't be a next time but if there is I will heed your advice and certainly take it a little slower.
So far all is looking good.


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Last edited by rc1626; 01/19/2018 at 10:38 PM.
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Old 01/19/2018, 04:47 PM   #75
tkeracer619
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Location: Westminster, CO
Posts: 16,536
I'm also a week in but I have no fish in the tank so I haven't measured ammonia.

Don't see webs but I haven't really been paying much attention and my lights are off. My skimmer is all the way down and I reduced the feed to it, it's running but not really producing anything but a small amount of very dry skim.

No flatworms visible since day one. Worms are piled up in a corner from the mp60 I have running. Water is a little cloudy in the 8ft dimension.

I am picking up a 40watt emperor aquatics UV to help break down the CP once this is all over.

Some bubble algae and surprisingly some pods are still hanging in there.


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