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Unread 02/12/2012, 11:39 PM   #126
mr.wilson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msk007 View Post
I love the mangroves: Any plans to rearrange them as they grow? Seems as though they are already strating to grow into the other bays. What was the reasoning for going to several straight bays instead of a large collection? Was it primarily due to space constraints or another reason?
I tried lifting a few of them out of the sand to encourage the roots to harden and send down new runners, but they are so tall they were hard to keep from falling over. I ended up drying out some roots.

Yes, we are completely out of room. Somehow a 10,000 square foot home is too small for two people and a fish tank A single mangrove tank with a bigger footprint would leave more room for fish, but a raceway system is more efficient for lighting and flow.


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Unread 02/12/2012, 11:59 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by spsreeflover View Post
Hi Shawn and Peter WOW 3 X, Growth is AMAZING but i saw the color not so bright like using MH and T5 but i am not sure, maybe some macros shot wil tell

Anton
The pictures don't do the tank justice. The colour is much better in person. Maybe you can link a picture of the kind of colour you are talking about as I haven't seen anything more colourful in my experience.

We still have 1/3 of the tank lit by metal halide and T5, and up until a week ago another 1/3 was lit by metal halide and T5 as well. The part with exclusive LED has been more colourful for the past 6 months. Coral growth rate is about the same.



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Unread 02/13/2012, 08:01 AM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msk007 View Post
I love the mangroves: Any plans to rearrange them as they grow? Seems as though they are already strating to grow into the other bays. What was the reasoning for going to several straight bays instead of a large collection? Was it primarily due to space constraints or another reason?
My response probably lacks the specificity that Mr. Wilson has just provided but I believe the raceway configuration is far superior to a single large bay for the benefits to accrue.

First if I followed the dialog correctly when this issue was discussed on Chingchai's thread one of the important elemental benefits of using the Miracle Mud substrate is the passage of the water over the mud. That means the benefit is enhanced with the distance the water travels. With this design, the water actually has 28 feet of travel as opposed to say 6 feet in the average mangrove setting with a hobbyist tank. The dwell time is also a factor which is much more controllable with this design. The hydroponic raceway is more efficient in the use of space and in fact is largely a better growing environment as there is lots of air around each tree. We are about to experiment with training the trees to grow laterally to see if we can spread the growth around the entire fish room. The aesthetic is terrific and the natural source of fresh air for the tanks in the fish room can't hurt either. I believe that Mr. Wilson has developed a system that is capable of offering many of the benefits of a standard refugium in a space saving and effective architecture. It is a huge benefit over the undersized refugium I have on my system and almost extends the filtration system to a size that is better suited to my display tank than the original plan. Again I believe that this water feature in the fish room is a best practice and ought to be encouraged where feasible.

Peter


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Unread 02/13/2012, 08:08 AM   #129
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The tank is looking great guys.
Did you get any further in your automated frozen food dispenser? I have recently turned my attention to this and I wonder how far you got? The last I saw was the realisation that there wasnt anything suitable on a commercial level and so a DIY unit was the only option. Is this still the case?


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Unread 02/13/2012, 08:20 AM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spsreeflover View Post
Hi Shawn and Peter WOW 3 X, Growth is AMAZING but i saw the color not so bright like using MH and T5 but i am not sure, maybe some macros shot wil tell

Anton
Anton, the colour is actually richer in a sense that the MH tends to wash out some of the colour because of the saturation levels of the white light. Our MH/T5's run about 13.5 K and there is still a hint of yellow in the water compared to the LED's. We have had a number of professionals fly in to see the tank and without exception they have been overwhelmed with the health and growth rate of the SPS in our tank for one year from the start.

I'm not in the business Anton so I have only the hobbyist perspective here but for me, LED's are a best practice for the health, growth and colour of our reef inhabitants. There are too many advantages in my opinion to rule out MH/T5's on a new build. This is a case where the costs are going down and the quality is going up. That's a technology pattern that spells success for the consumer in my books especially when the practice and experience produces the results that we appear to be getting in this tank.

Recently, after we put the latest version of the newest LED's over the tank Mr. Wilson and I sat in front of the display tank mesmerized by the aesthetic that we were seeing. For me it was a WOW, for Mr. Wilson it was a long silence.....something that is not usual for him!!!!!

Peter


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Unread 02/13/2012, 08:33 AM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d3hree View Post
The tank is looking great guys.
Did you get any further in your automated frozen food dispenser? I have recently turned my attention to this and I wonder how far you got? The last I saw was the realisation that there wasnt anything suitable on a commercial level and so a DIY unit was the only option. Is this still the case?
We are no further ahead on this subject but I can tell you that it is a significant issue for this build. It is probably going to take a while to find the right solution but the principles are emerging that will be critical to the success of any proposed solution.

Any system must be capable of providing a steady but prudent amount of nutrition to both fish and coral reliably with no degradation of quality in the switch from manual to an automated system.

That first principle is proving extremely challenging to find in any commercial product and I'm afraid that most DIY arrangements are far too risky and fragile to try on this tank.

I have NOT given up on my quest but I will not lower my standards or compromise the first principle in finding a workable solution.

Peter


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Unread 02/13/2012, 08:36 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by swissgaurd View Post
peter, shawn and team
this tank is surely looking like the real thing
congrats.

shawn i think if peter is going to get into frag farming,a visit to portugal may be in order.

vic
As long as we can find an excellent port count me in!!!!!

Peter


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Unread 02/13/2012, 10:53 AM   #133
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Peter, the tank looks fantastic!

A question about your led's....I am in the process of setting up another tank and I am torn on whether to use tried and true T5's or take the leap into led's. Your tank is one of the few that seems to have been successful with led's. I have read many posts/threads where people switched over and it turned into disaster. Could you or Shawn please comment on why you have had success and maybe why others haven't?

Thanks


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Current tank info: 34 gal Solana and a 400 gal FOWLR with 4-250 watt MH's, Aquamedic Turboflotor 5000, Korralin sulphur denitrator, 4-Koralia 7's. 120 gal LED sps reef in the works. Currently raising true Perc's.
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Unread 02/13/2012, 10:56 AM   #134
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thank you for the amazing pictures , hope golfing would help you recover Peter.

congrats for the new store opening as well. cant wait to visit this week mr wilson.


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Unread 02/13/2012, 02:14 PM   #135
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re. Mr.Wilson's new store

I congratulated Shawn on his big opening, and then suddenly realized that didn't sound quite right ...

Dave.M


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Unread 02/13/2012, 05:38 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuccadoc View Post
Peter, the tank looks fantastic!

A question about your led's....I am in the process of setting up another tank and I am torn on whether to use tried and true T5's or take the leap into led's. Your tank is one of the few that seems to have been successful with led's. I have read many posts/threads where people switched over and it turned into disaster. Could you or Shawn please comment on why you have had success and maybe why others haven't?

Thanks
Scott, As you know more than most, success in this hobby is always a result of a lot of things going right at the same time. However, I can honestly say that all things being equal with more than $100+K in hardware research that I am convinced that LED's are not just equal but a better option than MH/T5's. I have to admit that we did try a number of manufacturers of LEDs and the brand I am now using appears to be the best of the ones we tested. As you know from your long term membership in this community the standing culture in this thread is not to offer negative feedback but to comment on favourable results. I am not a shill for the LED manufacturer but I am a fan of the results that speak for themselves. I have gone on record saying that if your tank is 30" or less then these LED's represent a best practice. I suspect that you might be able to go deeper than 30" but I don't have the experience or proof of that. I was NOT looking to save money as a high priority but the health and welfare of the marine fish and corals was number one. The fact that the more efficient, cooler, better programability and longevity are there as well is a bonus.

more later....my wife is calling for dinner!!!!

Peter


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Unread 02/13/2012, 08:37 PM   #137
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Thanks for your reply Peter. You are using the Orphek PR156 correct? Do you have the 90 or 120 degree lens?


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Current tank info: 34 gal Solana and a 400 gal FOWLR with 4-250 watt MH's, Aquamedic Turboflotor 5000, Korralin sulphur denitrator, 4-Koralia 7's. 120 gal LED sps reef in the works. Currently raising true Perc's.
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Unread 02/13/2012, 09:07 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nineball View Post
Anton, the colour is actually richer in a sense that the MH tends to wash out some of the colour because of the saturation levels of the white light. Our MH/T5's run about 13.5 K and there is still a hint of yellow in the water compared to the LED's. We have had a number of professionals fly in to see the tank and without exception they have been overwhelmed with the health and growth rate of the SPS in our tank for one year from the start.

I'm not in the business Anton so I have only the hobbyist perspective here but for me, LED's are a best practice for the health, growth and colour of our reef inhabitants. There are too many advantages in my opinion to rule out MH/T5's on a new build. This is a case where the costs are going down and the quality is going up. That's a technology pattern that spells success for the consumer in my books especially when the practice and experience produces the results that we appear to be getting in this tank.

Recently, after we put the latest version of the newest LED's over the tank Mr. Wilson and I sat in front of the display tank mesmerized by the aesthetic that we were seeing. For me it was a WOW, for Mr. Wilson it was a long silence.....something that is not usual for him!!!!!

Peter
Hi Peter and Shawn, you'r right LED is Best for growth rate, Low energy consumption, color ( is must be good because PAR value higher than MH and T5 ) probably i am wrong making justice to your tank, must see it in person is the best . thanks


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Unread 02/13/2012, 10:16 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by nuccadoc View Post
Thanks for your reply Peter. You are using the Orphek PR156 correct? Do you have the 90 or 120 degree lens?
Scott, yes but the lights and the controller is different than anything that is on the market yet, I believe. I will ask Mr. Wilson to elaborate on the specs as we have both lenses. Remember, at the moment we have three rows of lights. The two outside rows have 90 degree and the centre row has 120's(I think..).

Peter

ps Mr. Wilson can you describe my current lighting configuration please..................


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Unread 02/14/2012, 06:37 AM   #140
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Your tank is looking amazingly beautifull. You forgot to show us your Bentley pics.


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Unread 02/14/2012, 07:49 AM   #141
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It's been so long that I'm have to learn how to post pics all over again.......


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Unread 02/14/2012, 07:56 AM   #142
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I still can't seem to get the hang of it.....


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Unread 02/14/2012, 09:05 AM   #143
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We are no further ahead on this subject but I can tell you that it is a significant issue for this build. It is probably going to take a while to find the right solution but the principles are emerging that will be critical to the success of any proposed solution.

Any system must be capable of providing a steady but prudent amount of nutrition to both fish and coral reliably with no degradation of quality in the switch from manual to an automated system.

That first principle is proving extremely challenging to find in any commercial product and I'm afraid that most DIY arrangements are far too risky and fragile to try on this tank.

I have NOT given up on my quest but I will not lower my standards or compromise the first principle in finding a workable solution.

Peter
Hi Peter,

Here is my DIY auto feeder, capable of delivering frozen and liquid food anytime and for an extended time, all off the shelf parts, controlled by my Apex and very reliable.

1. In fridge sump consisting of an open and upright 4" pvc pipe standing a bit higher than my other sumps so it won't ever overflow, located just before my return pump

2. Hole drilled from the freezer compartment to the cooler compartment to accept a pvc pipe for delivery of frozen food to the 4" pvc sump. I make my own food consisting of various other frozen foods but mostly mysis, reefroids and garlic.

3. Rotating food bin that drops frozen food into the pvc pipe for delivery

4. Small hair dryer (green in picture) that turns on for 1 minute, directed down the shoot, so food does not stick to side walls of pvc food holders.

5. Liquid food in cooler dispensed into 4" sump via peristaltic pumps. I'm using Reef Nutrition products, combining oyster and rotifeast into one bottle, the other is phytofeast. I checked with Reef Nutrition, they said one can combine products except for phytofeast due to ph.



This is the food bin made from a brute trash can lid and individual compartments comprised of sections of pvc pipe glued over drilled out holes of the same lumen size, center is cut to accept the top of the timer pictured below, note it just sits on the timer so it can be easily lifted off and cleaned if necessary:



This is the stand (turned upside down) for the food bin, made from another brute trash can lid, the pvc supports are glued down to the fridge, note the cut out on the right to allow food to drop through:



The food bin turns via a pool timer (very rugged), since the food holders are equally spaced the time it takes to dispense food is constant so it can be controlled, it sits in a hard plastic holder which I made from the plastic enclosure that came with the timer, it too is glued down to the fridge




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Current Tank Info: tank video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=va1dI7mdnGU ,900g in wall mixed reef, another 500g sumps, 19 AI Sol LED's, 2 CL's w/VFD's controlled pumps to 24 eductors, 2 Tunze WB's, 2 Barr 5220's and RK2 25PE and BK500, etc

Last edited by Elliott; 02/14/2012 at 09:48 AM.
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Unread 02/14/2012, 09:52 AM   #144
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WOW,

Very impresive elliot. Looks like im going to stick to the put in cup, add water and garlic, let thaw and pour in tank method ...


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Current Tank Info: Custom 300 in-wall mixed reef, SRO Diablo DCRS EXT 250 Skimmer ,LED's with 6' VHO Actinics, Custom fuge, (2)Tunze 6105's (2)Tunze 6095's on Tunze 7095 controller, MRC CR-4 Dual, ATO & Aquacontroller III

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Unread 02/14/2012, 10:18 AM   #145
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thanks psusocr

what this allows me to do is periodically feed at night while automatically turning off the skimmers and also feed when I'm away (can feed frozen foods once a day for over a month, or twice a day for two weeks if needed)

and no daily smell on my hands!


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Current Tank Info: tank video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=va1dI7mdnGU ,900g in wall mixed reef, another 500g sumps, 19 AI Sol LED's, 2 CL's w/VFD's controlled pumps to 24 eductors, 2 Tunze WB's, 2 Barr 5220's and RK2 25PE and BK500, etc
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Unread 02/14/2012, 10:25 AM   #146
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thanks psusocr

what this allows me to do is periodically feed at night while automatically turning off the skimmers and also feed when I'm away (can feed frozen foods once a day for over a month, or twice a day for two weeks if needed)

and no daily smell on my hands!
It is , without a doubt, an awesome system , and as you said the importance for me would be when i am away to be able to feed...well done


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Current Tank Info: Custom 300 in-wall mixed reef, SRO Diablo DCRS EXT 250 Skimmer ,LED's with 6' VHO Actinics, Custom fuge, (2)Tunze 6105's (2)Tunze 6095's on Tunze 7095 controller, MRC CR-4 Dual, ATO & Aquacontroller III
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Unread 02/14/2012, 12:48 PM   #147
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Peter, your tank is fantastic. Just WOW.

I current own 3 Orphek PR-156W-UV (with 4 UV LEDs) over my 180g tank. Are you talking about the same fixture or it's a different version customize only for you ?

So for the color of the LED is perfect but one extra fixture (for a total of 4) should be better to have a nice light coverage.

Best Regards!
Christian

Quote:
Originally Posted by nineball View Post


Recently, after we put the latest version of the newest LED's over the tank Mr. Wilson and I sat in front of the display tank mesmerized by the aesthetic that we were seeing. For me it was a WOW, for Mr. Wilson it was a long silence.....something that is not usual for him!!!!!

Peter



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Unread 02/14/2012, 01:09 PM   #148
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Peter, your tank is fantastic. Just WOW.

I current own 3 Orphek PR-156W-UV (with 4 UV LEDs) over my 180g tank. Are you talking about the same fixture or it's a different version customize only for you ?

So for the color of the LED is perfect but one extra fixture (for a total of 4) should be better to have a nice light coverage.

Best Regards!
Christian
Christian, does your unit have for red led's as well? and can you dim both channels?

Peter


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Unread 02/14/2012, 01:14 PM   #149
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thanks psusocr

what this allows me to do is periodically feed at night while automatically turning off the skimmers and also feed when I'm away (can feed frozen foods once a day for over a month, or twice a day for two weeks if needed)

and no daily smell on my hands!
Elliott, That is incredible. Are you sure you don't have a Delorean to go with it?

Seriously that's great work. I like that you can feed often. I'm convinced that its better for all the life in the tank.

Well done.


Peter


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Unread 02/14/2012, 01:58 PM   #150
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Peter, Shawn, Dave, Drago, Steve, and all the members of this community,

This thread has consumed much of my free time for the last month and a half as I endeavored to read every word. Much deserving praise has been lavished on you, Peter, the team you have assembled, and the incredible community created in this thread; every word well deserved. I would echo the sentiments expressed by so many as I cannot express them as eloquently. I would, however, like to speak on the two aspects of this build that have touched me the most.

First, your performance as the CEO of this project has been astounding. When I began reading the thread I had my doubts about the outcome. You had the foresight to know what you did not know and to outsource much of the work, but you still lacked the knowledge of whom to hire to assemble the best team. I was concerned you were unwittingly setting yourself up for failure. But your continued insistence on gaining knowledge and creating best practices led to the assembly of a truly world class team, which in turn led the creation of a world class tank. Well done! To me, this thread has been as much about building an aquarium as about how to be an effective leader. Thank you.

Second, your insistence on best practices and not current trends is worthy of applause. I have been in this hobby a long time and watched a number of individuals (myself included) chase the latest and greatest trend. Often times those trends are created by marketing hype that belies the lack of scientific foundation for the claims. Your insistence on the scientific principles behind every piece of equipment and maintenance philosophy is something we could all benefit by adopting. It is easy to believe that money and the most expensive equipment will create a flourishing tank, but hard to remember that a properly designed and maintained system can be much more effective.

I am sad to have caught up with the thread as it means I must now wait for the updates in real time. However, I am inspired by the work of the entire team and have already changed a number of features of my next tank as a result. I look forward to seeing what the future holds for this tank.


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