Need real help with my 28G Nano Cube

Cowlesdc · 04/09/2016, 09:57 PM

Could really use the help of some experienced nano keepers. I have tried to get advise from my LFS but I feel like they are snake oil sales men.

Here are the basics. I have had my tank up and running for a little over 2 1/2 years. It is a 28g JBJ Nano cube with 1 1/2 inches of sand and about 20 pounds of live rock. I have dealt with a number of issues including red cyano, bubble algae and a 6 month fight that lost me just about everything in my tank. All that survived the battle was my percula, some colt coral, a leather, and one head of frogspawn. In that battle I lost a cherry shrimp, about 8 heads of frogspawn, some of my colt, several mushrooms, zoas, GSP, 3 heads of candy cane, a number of crabs, and a fire fish. I know what I did right and wrong in the battle and now have those kinks worked out. I caused the war by over introducing too much at one time. That led to a huge algae burst and a long fight with nutrients. My current stock list is my original percula, a cherry shrimp, my leather, some colt, a few new mushrooms, new zoas, one head of frogspawn, new GSP, and a tube worm that just magically appeared.

The problem I need help with is I have been unable to keep any critters, other than my percula and cherry shrimp, alive for more than a month or 6 weeks. Before my crash battle I lost 2 fire fish, a clown goby, a court jester goby, a couple of emerald crabs, a peppermint shrimp and a couple of sally light foots. After I got my tank under control again I have lost a fire fish, a clown goby, a sally light foot, and an arrow crab. Some how some way my percula has made it through it all. I had my original peppermint shrimp for almost 2 years, but he eventually gave in during the war. I know one of my big problems was introducing too much at once and then not changing the water soon after and getting ammonia spikes.With the new stock I have added since the war, I have watched my ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate and made the appropriate water changes.

The most recent live stock that has me scratching my head as to why the perished is a clown goby, a firefish, and a sally light foot. The sally light foot lasted only a few days. No idea what happened here. The clown goby lasted almost a week, and I know he died cause he wasn't eating. I did a 20% water change a couple days after he died, and then another 20% change a week after that. Now over 3 weeks from introducing him to the tank the firefish is no where to be seen. He was eating, looked really healthy, and got along great with my percula. So what am I doing wrong? Its really bothering me that my percula has made it through so much and then I can't even keep a fire fish alive for more than a month or two. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, and if you have questions please ask.

aznflyfisherman · 04/09/2016, 10:38 PM

What are your perameters., what type of water do you use? Are you dosing anything? Have you always had this issue and live stocking dying from the beginning or just recently started dying?

Steveabg · 04/10/2016, 12:16 AM

With that much stress going on in the tank, your colt may be making things worse.

When I first started out, I had a Colt, and everything in my tank died. Tested parameters, everything was fine. Put a damsel in, died overnight.

Finally read up that leathers release a toxin when they're stressed. Did a 100% water change and started from scratch.

And that did the trick.

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

Cowlesdc · 04/11/2016, 09:40 PM

Ok so parameters I try and keep are
78 to 79 Degrees
My PH, I think, is between 8.2 -8.4. I have only been using a basic test kit and well the water is always a shade of purple
I always try and keep my Ammonia, Nitrate and Nitrite at 0.
I dont test for Alk, Mag, or Calcium very often but when I do I always find I am a little low on Calcium and Alk but not by much.

I just got an Apex and I have an ATO on order. This will help me keep things more constant going forward, but I'm still trying to figure out if Temp or Salinity were/are the cause. I don't dose anything and always use RODI.

So I am not sure if what I have is colt or kenya tree, and I do also have a toadstool. Today two of the six different colt/kenya's look really bad, so Im thinking they could be the issue. Should I just remove all the colt/kenya? I like it but if its the issue I will trash it. But my question still is why is my Percula and Cherry shrimp not dieing off? only the new stock?

aznflyfisherman · 04/12/2016, 12:27 AM

I would remove them n dont buy anymore corals or live stock for now. What is your salinity? It maybe too high. Also why would your water look purple? Are you dosing something? I keep a 6g nano cube n all my corals n fish are healthy n i barely do any water change.

ReefWreak · 04/12/2016, 08:31 AM

I would double check your temperature and salinity with known/calibrated tools. Particularly your salinity. Get a $30 refractometer off of ebay, buy some $5-10 calibration fluid (ideally at 35ppt/1.026), and test your water with a multimeter for stray electricity.

I think with this many problems despite you doing frequent water changes, water changes might be your issue, so I'd start with source water quality, then make sure your water change water is the correct temperature and salinity, then check your tank's temperature and salinity.

You're right that stores are more often than not snake oil salesmen. Not all, but most. I get it, gotta make a living, and it's a store.

You might even want to try quarantining your next fish, and/or doing TTM (Tank Transfer Method) to try to break the cycle of ich, so you can rule out one more issue with the fishes (though I know you are also having problems with corals and inverts too).

Considering the age of your tank, I would also check for anything that might be rusted out or damaged, heater, return pump, wiring, etc.

But usually the problem is something so basic it is overlooked: temperature and salinity.

Hopefully that gets you started in the right direction. Don't get distracted by shiny gizmos and fancy test kits.

aznflyfisherman · 04/12/2016, 11:51 AM

I would suspect its the sg is too high, i forgot i ran into this a while back on my 6g when my inverts kept dying and i double check my sg and it was way high, though they did not die all at once but slowly will die off n corals would shrink up.

GriffinMarsh · 04/12/2016, 12:20 PM

I am not entirely sure what a saltwater cherry shrimp is. A peppermint, or maybe blood fire? But I really hope it wasn't a FW cherry shrimp...

Balix · 04/12/2016, 03:16 PM

Also make sure when you use the pipette to suck in the salt water and shoot it back out to remove the salt buildup. It gives a big difference in reading.

Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk

Cowlesdc · 04/12/2016, 09:45 PM

I going to answer each post in order.

AZN (I too am a Fly fisherman)
My salinity is 1.022-1.023. But It can go up with my evaporation, this is why I am getting a ATO unit. The water in my tank is not purple. When I test my ph with the API test kit it turns the water purple and the different shades are suppose to tell you PH. Well I cant decide what shade of purple my water is, but its in the 8.2-8.6 range.

ReefWreak
Im going to purchase a refractometer as I have been using the basic instant ocean hydrometer. My thought is that my salinity is low. I try to always match when I do a water change, but if my tool is off Im just matching to the low level. And flashy things are so nice and flashy.

Griffin
It is a peppermint shrimp. I had a few beers when I wrote that after I had just discovered the die off.

I will keep everyone updated on what happens next. Thanks for all the help so far.

ReefWreak · 04/13/2016, 07:43 AM

Ignore the pH. It effectively doesn't matter for your issues.

Buying the refractometer is half the battle. You must also buy ocean-water-level calibration fluid. Precise refractometers are accurate to whatever they are calibrated to, so unless you're using a known calibration, then it might be precise but inaccurate relative to the values you are shooting for.

04/09/2016, 09:57 PM	#1
Cowlesdc Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 35	Need real help with my 28G Nano Cube Could really use the help of some experienced nano keepers. I have tried to get advise from my LFS but I feel like they are snake oil sales men. Here are the basics. I have had my tank up and running for a little over 2 1/2 years. It is a 28g JBJ Nano cube with 1 1/2 inches of sand and about 20 pounds of live rock. I have dealt with a number of issues including red cyano, bubble algae and a 6 month fight that lost me just about everything in my tank. All that survived the battle was my percula, some colt coral, a leather, and one head of frogspawn. In that battle I lost a cherry shrimp, about 8 heads of frogspawn, some of my colt, several mushrooms, zoas, GSP, 3 heads of candy cane, a number of crabs, and a fire fish. I know what I did right and wrong in the battle and now have those kinks worked out. I caused the war by over introducing too much at one time. That led to a huge algae burst and a long fight with nutrients. My current stock list is my original percula, a cherry shrimp, my leather, some colt, a few new mushrooms, new zoas, one head of frogspawn, new GSP, and a tube worm that just magically appeared. The problem I need help with is I have been unable to keep any critters, other than my percula and cherry shrimp, alive for more than a month or 6 weeks. Before my crash battle I lost 2 fire fish, a clown goby, a court jester goby, a couple of emerald crabs, a peppermint shrimp and a couple of sally light foots. After I got my tank under control again I have lost a fire fish, a clown goby, a sally light foot, and an arrow crab. Some how some way my percula has made it through it all. I had my original peppermint shrimp for almost 2 years, but he eventually gave in during the war. I know one of my big problems was introducing too much at once and then not changing the water soon after and getting ammonia spikes.With the new stock I have added since the war, I have watched my ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate and made the appropriate water changes. The most recent live stock that has me scratching my head as to why the perished is a clown goby, a firefish, and a sally light foot. The sally light foot lasted only a few days. No idea what happened here. The clown goby lasted almost a week, and I know he died cause he wasn't eating. I did a 20% water change a couple days after he died, and then another 20% change a week after that. Now over 3 weeks from introducing him to the tank the firefish is no where to be seen. He was eating, looked really healthy, and got along great with my percula. So what am I doing wrong? Its really bothering me that my percula has made it through so much and then I can't even keep a fire fish alive for more than a month or two. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, and if you have questions please ask.

04/12/2016, 12:20 PM	#8
GriffinMarsh Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Tucson Az Posts: 162	I am not entirely sure what a saltwater cherry shrimp is. A peppermint, or maybe blood fire? But I really hope it wasn't a FW cherry shrimp... __________________ Anyone can buy a reef, It takes someone special to grow one. ____---GRIFFINSMARSH---_____ Current Tank Info: 350gal Mixed Reef, 180gal Mangrove Tank 2.5g Fish Bowl

04/09/2016, 10:38 PM	#2
aznflyfisherman Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 957	What are your perameters., what type of water do you use? Are you dosing anything? Have you always had this issue and live stocking dying from the beginning or just recently started dying?

04/10/2016, 12:16 AM	#3
Steveabg Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Los Feliz Posts: 495	With that much stress going on in the tank, your colt may be making things worse. When I first started out, I had a Colt, and everything in my tank died. Tested parameters, everything was fine. Put a damsel in, died overnight. Finally read up that leathers release a toxin when they're stressed. Did a 100% water change and started from scratch. And that did the trick. Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

04/11/2016, 09:40 PM	#4
Cowlesdc Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 35	Ok so parameters I try and keep are 78 to 79 Degrees My PH, I think, is between 8.2 -8.4. I have only been using a basic test kit and well the water is always a shade of purple I always try and keep my Ammonia, Nitrate and Nitrite at 0. I dont test for Alk, Mag, or Calcium very often but when I do I always find I am a little low on Calcium and Alk but not by much. I just got an Apex and I have an ATO on order. This will help me keep things more constant going forward, but I'm still trying to figure out if Temp or Salinity were/are the cause. I don't dose anything and always use RODI. So I am not sure if what I have is colt or kenya tree, and I do also have a toadstool. Today two of the six different colt/kenya's look really bad, so Im thinking they could be the issue. Should I just remove all the colt/kenya? I like it but if its the issue I will trash it. But my question still is why is my Percula and Cherry shrimp not dieing off? only the new stock?

04/12/2016, 12:27 AM	#5
aznflyfisherman Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 957	I would remove them n dont buy anymore corals or live stock for now. What is your salinity? It maybe too high. Also why would your water look purple? Are you dosing something? I keep a 6g nano cube n all my corals n fish are healthy n i barely do any water change.

04/12/2016, 08:31 AM	#6
ReefWreak Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Astoria, NYC Posts: 10,159	I would double check your temperature and salinity with known/calibrated tools. Particularly your salinity. Get a $30 refractometer off of ebay, buy some $5-10 calibration fluid (ideally at 35ppt/1.026), and test your water with a multimeter for stray electricity. I think with this many problems despite you doing frequent water changes, water changes might be your issue, so I'd start with source water quality, then make sure your water change water is the correct temperature and salinity, then check your tank's temperature and salinity. You're right that stores are more often than not snake oil salesmen. Not all, but most. I get it, gotta make a living, and it's a store. You might even want to try quarantining your next fish, and/or doing TTM (Tank Transfer Method) to try to break the cycle of ich, so you can rule out one more issue with the fishes (though I know you are also having problems with corals and inverts too). Considering the age of your tank, I would also check for anything that might be rusted out or damaged, heater, return pump, wiring, etc. But usually the problem is something so basic it is overlooked: temperature and salinity. Hopefully that gets you started in the right direction. Don't get distracted by shiny gizmos and fancy test kits.

04/12/2016, 11:51 AM	#7
aznflyfisherman Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 957	I would suspect its the sg is too high, i forgot i ran into this a while back on my 6g when my inverts kept dying and i double check my sg and it was way high, though they did not die all at once but slowly will die off n corals would shrink up.

04/12/2016, 03:16 PM	#9
Balix Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 12	Also make sure when you use the pipette to suck in the salt water and shoot it back out to remove the salt buildup. It gives a big difference in reading. Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk

04/12/2016, 09:45 PM	#10
Cowlesdc Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 35	I going to answer each post in order. AZN (I too am a Fly fisherman) My salinity is 1.022-1.023. But It can go up with my evaporation, this is why I am getting a ATO unit. The water in my tank is not purple. When I test my ph with the API test kit it turns the water purple and the different shades are suppose to tell you PH. Well I cant decide what shade of purple my water is, but its in the 8.2-8.6 range. ReefWreak Im going to purchase a refractometer as I have been using the basic instant ocean hydrometer. My thought is that my salinity is low. I try to always match when I do a water change, but if my tool is off Im just matching to the low level. And flashy things are so nice and flashy. Griffin It is a peppermint shrimp. I had a few beers when I wrote that after I had just discovered the die off. I will keep everyone updated on what happens next. Thanks for all the help so far.

04/13/2016, 07:43 AM	#11
ReefWreak Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Astoria, NYC Posts: 10,159	Ignore the pH. It effectively doesn't matter for your issues. Buying the refractometer is half the battle. You must also buy ocean-water-level calibration fluid. Precise refractometers are accurate to whatever they are calibrated to, so unless you're using a known calibration, then it might be precise but inaccurate relative to the values you are shooting for.