Tank mates in 54x28x16 mantis/magrove lagoon

[Decadence]

As I'm getting closer to setting up my new 120 gallon (48"x24"x24") rimless display tank, I have been planning out my sump and I think I have settled on a mangrove lagoon underneath of the tank. I just picked up a slab of granite for the top of the stand which is 55"x29" so the sump underneath is going to be about 53"x27"x16" and only about 10" on the right side will be dedicated to equipment. This means that I am going to have roughly an 80 gallon lagoon under the tank. I plan to put 100+ mangroves (lit from the side to keep the water darker) wrapping from the back to the right side and have a mixed sand/crushed coral substrate with a few PCV tunnels and scattered rubble.

That said, I would like to keep a nice peacock mantis in this tank to keep it interesting. I plan to keep a few fish in there I wouldn't care about getting eaten such as damsels. In addition, I would like to keep one or two larger fish which would not eat the mantis and vice versa. I was thinking some sort of wrasse, angel, butterfly, etc...

What are you guys keeping successfully with your peacock mantis shrimps in larger tanks?

[Decadence]

I guess everybody is keeping their mantis in a species specific tank despite the size? Maybe a spiny blue lobster instead? :-/

[Kharn]

You want to know what tank mates you can keep ?

I'll tell you what tank mates you can keep >

Here are the tank mates you can keep
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ANYTHING........
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That you are not willing to loose/sacrifice to the stomatopod.
Nothing that is a known predator of inverts (triggers puffers).

They are to random...sure they might 'befriend' that 'fish' or whatever for a few days / weeks / months but when the lights go out on any given night and the stomatopod sees its new friend as a source for an easy meal...its all over for that 'kinship'.

Hope this helps.

P.S. Its better to keep a stomatopod alone anyway, that way you get to experience all it has to offer! If you put them with other things they tend to become a bit more skiddish and wary rather then dominating and care free....

When they need to share a tank with other inhabitants, there constantly checking on the inhabitants, will it pose a threat, can it be a source of food.

When there in a tank by themselves, it doesn't take them long to realize that they are the boss and they start to act that way, knowing that there isn't anything in there world (the tank) for them to fear or look out for.

[Immhotep]

Originally Posted by Decadence

I guess everybody is keeping their mantis in a species specific tank despite the size? Maybe a spiny blue lobster instead? :-/

Spiny blue lobster is going to be his meal in less than 5 minutes, any inverts you put in that tank will become his food. Try some damsel instead, at least they are cheap so if it gets eaten you don't feel that hurt. I have one with my mantis for more than 2 years. From time to time the damsel's eye will be bloated(probably got hit by the mantis when it goes too near to her) but it heals fast.

[Decadence]

Thanks for some responses guys. My mention of a spiny blue lobster was actually meant to be instead of the mantis. I definitely don't one only one creature in a tank with a 53"x27" footprint. I'd prefer a mantis because they are just fascinating creatures.

So a mantis will even eat larger fish? And all the same, a trigger or puffer will still eat a larger mantis? Is there less risk in the larger tank where everyone can establish territory?

I have heard of quite a few people having success with smaller and faster fish like damsels. I don't wish to put a lot in the tank, maybe a hand flu of damsels and then a couple of the fish which are not reef safe that I wanted like an auriga butterfly and a banana wrasse (which hopefully wouldn't harm a large peacock). Input?

[Kharn]

Originally Posted by Decadence

Thanks for some responses guys. My mention of a spiny blue lobster was actually meant to be instead of the mantis. I definitely don't one only one creature in a tank with a 53"x27" footprint. I'd prefer a mantis because they are just fascinating creatures.

So a mantis will even eat larger fish? And all the same, a trigger or puffer will still eat a larger mantis? Is there less risk in the larger tank where everyone can establish territory?

I have heard of quite a few people having success with smaller and faster fish like damsels. I don't wish to put a lot in the tank, maybe a hand flu of damsels and then a couple of the fish which are not reef safe that I wanted like an auriga butterfly and a banana wrasse (which hopefully wouldn't harm a large peacock). Input?

Wrasse & Stomatopods are notorious enemies one will kill the other (its even suggested by some to use a Wrasse to hunt down any stomatopods in a tank where the owner wished for no mantis hitchhikers.

As far as tank size goes, in short no. They will still come in contact and once they do, they will just work over each other until one wins out likely the trigger/puffer.

Even though territories might be 'established' this doesn't prevent them from crossing into another territory....

If your going to keep anything with a stomatopod you must not be afraid to loose it and anything that we know of that can be kept with a stomatopod with no fears of being eaten, are likely to eat/attack the stomatopod.

I've kept fish with my large spearers, which they slowly picked off until my largest spearer took down a large scopas tang as big as my hand...opening my eyes to the size of prey these things can take out....

There is never going to be a sure fire way of saying "X stomatopod and Y fish will 110% get along!" so its a matter of which your willing to loose more, the stomatopod or the fish/others ?

Again as I said earlier once you put stuff in with your mantis expect it to be different almost more reclusive since there are 'intruders' in its home it will keep a keen eye on them all.

[Immhotep]

Originally Posted by Decadence

Thanks for some responses guys. My mention of a spiny blue lobster was actually meant to be instead of the mantis. I definitely don't one only one creature in a tank with a 53"x27" footprint. I'd prefer a mantis because they are just fascinating creatures.

So a mantis will even eat larger fish? And all the same, a trigger or puffer will still eat a larger mantis? Is there less risk in the larger tank where everyone can establish territory?

I have heard of quite a few people having success with smaller and faster fish like damsels. I don't wish to put a lot in the tank, maybe a hand flu of damsels and then a couple of the fish which are not reef safe that I wanted like an auriga butterfly and a banana wrasse (which hopefully wouldn't harm a large peacock). Input?

I am a spiny lobster owner & they are really beautiful creatures. Different species can be kept together as long as their size are about the same & have enough shelter for them to hide while molting. But they are not as friendly as they look. LFS owner might tell you that they are reef safe & peaceful creatures but on the contrary they are quite destructive creatures. Yes, they can be peaceful when they are young or shy when you introduce them to a new tank but once it grows or get acclimate it will hunt & eat almost anything he finds. Spiny lobsters will eat all kinds of inverts including starfish & urchins. It will even prey on slow moving or bottom dwelling fishes. I once thought a big lionfish can get along with them, it didn't took too long until my 12cm blue spiny lobster chew on the 18cm long lionfish!

[TundraGuy]

Pix of new set up please

[Decadence]

Wow Immhotep! I have never read a review of the spiny blue lobster like that. They don't sound like the type of critter I would want at all.

I really appreciate all of the input guys. I guess I will stick to the mantis and start with a few damsels and then try some nicer fish if they live a few months.

[Decadence]

Originally Posted by TundraGuy

Pix of new set up please

I will have a build thread going here shortly which I will link to here.

[Kharn]

Originally Posted by Decadence

Wow Immhotep! I have never read a review of the spiny blue lobster like that. They don't sound like the type of critter I would want at all.

I really appreciate all of the input guys. I guess I will stick to the mantis and start with a few damsels and then try some nicer fish if they live a few months.

Never get to comfortable....I kept that large scopas tang with my spearers for months until I woke up one day, noticed the missing tang then when I was looking for it I saw a pectoral fin protruding from the sand, blew the sand away and low and behold, the scopas tang was there, half eaten....

Rite up until that point I was like "ehh must be too big for them" as none of the stomatopods even hinted interest in the large fish.

The moment you feel that things are finally settling in...is when they strike!

Just remember that stomatopods are the worlds greatest apex predator and they didn't get that way by making friends with there food.

[Decadence]

That is sad. I probably would put nothing but damsels in the tank if I were keeping a spearing mantis. Have you heard of smashers taking out big fish?

[Kharn]

Originally Posted by Decadence

That is sad. I probably would put nothing but damsels in the tank if I were keeping a spearing mantis. Have you heard of smashers taking out big fish?

Yes I have heard of it, Yes I have seen it. Some species are more interested in fish then others (still talking smashers only here) species like O.japonicus is a known predator of fish.

Always remember what your trying to keep together.....

The Worlds most Apex predator and prey (when your the WORLDS most Apex predator....everything is prey, even your own kind).

I suspect that the spearer that took out my large scopas was eyeing it for a very long time, waiting for that perfect moment.

These animals are extremely EXTREMELY opportunistic....

[Kharn]

Also to note, as I mentioned earlier.

If you start adding big fish to the stomatopods tank (even though the fish aren't aggressive) expect the stomatopod to retreat a fair bit into the more cavernous areas of the tank trying to avoid the fish/not be seen by the fish.

The big fish would make it feel insecure. Hence cause it to hide more and be less interactive.
The small fish would be inevitable prey. Hence missing fish/hurt fish but the stomatopod should be more interactive knowing that nothing in the tank can 'best' it.

The choice is yours

Your best bet in my eyes is to get your mantis and your fish BUT really target feed the stomatopod, you got to make sure its belly is full cause if it gets hungry (and they frequently are) it will go on the hunt.

[Kharn]

In relation to there sheer 'randomness'.....

Morgoth is an L.sulcata and a fairly big L.sulcata (I assume he is at max size).

1-2 Months ago ANY fish that swam past him would disappear in a flash of sand and scales....

Over the past 2-3weeks he has taken 1 fish even though every night I offer him one, he will let it just sit there beside him or rest just above him normally in the kill zone.

Devil to docile to devil to docile to devil to docile etc etc etc...

[Fartin'Gary]

My peacock doesn't seem too interested in the yellow tail damsel but it has taken out one of the green chromis already after just 4-5 days. It's really just an opportunistic feeder. The damsel is more of a survivor and trickier to kill. It will take what ever is the easiest to get at the moment or what it has to spend the least amount of energy to get.

[Immhotep]

Originally Posted by Decadence

That is sad. I probably would put nothing but damsels in the tank if I were keeping a spearing mantis. Have you heard of smashers taking out big fish?

Damsels with spearer? If it's a smasher then you can still consider having some cheap damsels, if it's a spearer, any fish will become it's snack.