N/P reducing pellets (solid vodka dosing)

[tatuvaaj]

I agree, Reef Actif and Biopellets are not really the same thing. I use both

[bluereefs]

Tatuvaaj IIRC I readed in your web site that you was not satisfied with TM reef actif products, can you tell us why? I asking because I searching foor good quality food and if TM are not good then there is no reason for me to buy them.

One more question, do you think bacteria mass from bio pellets can provide very good food source for sponges? Do you think bp itself can give enough food for sponges?

I have Trikentrion flabelliforme in my aquarium and looking for quality food for them, IIRC I think you have them too. Red branching sponge with white parazoanthus.

[tatuvaaj]

Originally Posted by bluereefs

Tatuvaaj IIRC I readed in your web site that you was not satisfied with TM reef actif products, can you tell us why? I asking because I searching foor good quality food and if TM are not good then there is no reason for me to buy them.

Yes, I was dissatisfied because I had unrealistic expectations. I made a rookie mistake and trusted a small number of posts on forums without knowing the people and without looking more closely their aquariums and husbandry practices. This let me to believe that Reef Actif alone could keep nutrients down even with the heavy feeding I do. It didn't help that my skimmer broke around the same time... The reward for this idiocy: 25+ ppm NO3 and 1.0 ppm PO4. BTW, the zooxanthellae corals seemed to be just fine but all azooxanthellae corals suffered greatly.

I still use Reef Actif because I think (!) it improves corals pigmentation and helps skimming. Corals are not necessarily more colorful but have more natural pigmentation.

One more question, do you think bacteria mass from bio pellets can provide very good food source for sponges? Do you think bp itself can give enough food for sponges?

It is hard for me to say because I feed so much other stuff . BP will certainly help and I can see some of the gorgonians and tunicates eating the bacteria after I disturb BP. It is well known that bacterioplankton is very important part of nutrition for many filter feeders but I think we need more practical experience.

I have Trikentrion flabelliforme in my aquarium and looking for quality food for them, IIRC I think you have them too. Red branching sponge with white parazoanthus.

RIP. Together with another sponge it died because of the water quality issues I had It was hard lesson for me: many animals that are sometimes thought to do well in more "dirty" water were the ones that suffered most from the elevated nutrients!

[jptenklooster]

there are a lot of sponges that eat bacteria, however, not all of them. In my experience the beautifull hard orange and blue sponges eat different things and are harder the feed. There is a research group in the netherlands that has shown that many sponges actually absorve large biopolymers such as proteins and oil. Based on this I have tested wether a mixture of gelatine, fishoil and water could be used to feed them and some sponges (haliclona in particular) responded really well by dubling its biomass within weeks. On the other hand, yoghurt seems to work very well for some sponges as well.
Keep in mind that most yoghurts have a lower pH than seawater, so you could consider adding a bit of CaOH to compensate for the drop in pH.

greetzzz JP

[jptenklooster]

one major protein which is present in sponges is collagen. this is a major building block for their tissues. When collagen is isolated from for instance pig skin or other animal sources, it is boild or denatured by other means and is then named, gelatine. With other words, by adding gelatine to your tank, your are profiding your sponges with one of their major building blocks. Happy testing

[tatuvaaj]

JP,

What about phosphorous in casein? Is it of any concern?

BTW, these guys used casein to help skimmer remove bacteria from costal seawater:

Suzuki et al. Removal of bacteria from coastal seawater by foam separation using dispersed bubbles and surface-active substances. Journal Of Bioscience And Bioengineering (2008) vol. 105 (4) pp. 383-388

[bluereefs]

Tatuvaaj and jptenklooster thank you for great informations and news. Always love sponges, never had so much luck with them, besides collospongia (photosysntetic).

How much yoghurts we can add in tank? Aprox guide measure?
Where I can find or made colagen? I dont wont to put pig skin in my aquarium lol, and regarding fishoil is that fishoil available in drugstore?
Does other invertebrates/corals show negative/positive efect to yoghurt or colagen?

[Mike O'Brien]

Interesting. From WIKI.

The approximate amino acid composition of gelatin is: glycine 21%, proline 12%, hydroxyproline 12%, glutamic acid 10%, alanine 9%, arginine 8%, aspartic acid 6%, lysine 4%, serine 4%, leucine 3%, valine 2%, phenylalanine 2%, threonine 2%, isoleucine 1%,hydroxylysine 1%, methionine and histidine <1% and tyrosine <0.5%.

[bluereefs]

BTW jptenklooster is there a chance to show those aquarium with sponges? Is that aquarium where you tested bio pellets? It will be great to see them, of course if is posiblle.

[eliashickman]

So I got my package yesterday and spent about 5 hours doing a water change, fresh water dipping some fishes, putting together my biopellets and phosban reactor, and general maintenance.

So my question is where do I place the outlet tube from the phosban reactor? Near my return pump or hear the skimmer inlet?

BTW, all these educated questions rock. Thanks guys.

[ksed]

Originally Posted by eliashickman

So I got my package yesterday and spent about 5 hours doing a water change, fresh water dipping some fishes, putting together my biopellets and phosban reactor, and general maintenance.

So my question is where do I place the outlet tube from the phosban reactor? Near my return pump or hear the skimmer inlet?

BTW, all these educated questions rock. Thanks guys.

Near the skimmer.

[eliashickman]

Cool that's what I thought.
Just out of curiousity anybody running their pellets in a Phosban reactor?
If so how have you been agitating them. My flow through is pretty good but the uppermost ones seem to be collecting air bubbles on top of them then floating to the top part of the reactor. After 3-5 hours they start forming a chain.

[MaLi]

Guys,

not sure has been discussed here, but NP biopellets are available at Premium Aquatics for $52/500 and $99/1000.

hope it helps,
Marian

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?

[Jk5]

Originally Posted by bluereefs

Tatuvaaj and jptenklooster thank you for great informations and news. Always love sponges, never had so much luck with them, besides collospongia (photosysntetic).

How much yoghurts we can add in tank? Aprox guide measure?
Where I can find or made colagen? I dont wont to put pig skin in my aquarium lol, and regarding fishoil is that fishoil available in drugstore?
Does other invertebrates/corals show negative/positive efect to yoghurt or colagen?

Very interesting.
Thank you jptenklooster for these tips.
Another feeding tips for other non photos or other invertebrates and corals?

[eliashickman]

The end game my fellow aquarists is, I believe, to be able to support these types of reef inhabitants.
I'm sure that the biopellets will help facilitate this process.



Make sure you check out 1:30. That gorgonian is stunning.

Of course I can't take credit. http://glassbox-design.com/2009/piet...ic-azoox-reef/

[tatuvaaj]

Originally Posted by eliashickman

The end game my fellow aquarists is, I believe, to be able to support these types of reef inhabitants.

That is my goal

It isn't very hard to keep your nutrient concentrations in check if you don't feed much

Of course, many aquarists are happy with a SPS dominated aquariums but for people who are already using pretty much all the available methods to provide pristine water quality these kinds of new ideas are very welcome.

BTW, I've now added some more BPs and stopped DOC dosing completely I'll let you know how it goes.

[tntneon]

Originally Posted by eliashickman

...
Make sure you check out 1:30. That gorgonian is stunning...

+1 , It`s realy beautifull to see !

greetingzz tntneon

[Frogmanx82]

Yeah, just got my pellets. I am going to put them in my canister. I assume I should have very little filter material after the pellets to allow the bacteria easier access to the tank where it can be consumed or skimmed out.

[ksed]

I was thinking the same. Is the sponge which is used on the Two Little Fishies
reactor to restricting.

Thanks

Kevin

[MaLi]

If you remove the first sponge detritus can get trapped between pellets. Will decomposition of detritus help ?

cheers,
Marian

[GeoffM1968]

Originally Posted by ksed

I was thinking the same. Is the sponge which is used on the Two Little Fishies reactor to restricting.

I plan on using both filters as I am currently doing with the ZEO rocks. Lots of mulm makes it way out which I observe daily after the shaking of the canister so should not be an issue with N/P.

Only issue I can think of after initially writing this response is I clean the sponges every 30 days as part of the ZEO refresh. If the N/P reducing pellets are good for 6 months, then I will need to continue routine of cleaning sponges as may become clogged over the six month period of time. If becomes issue, will try running without filters.

[Frogmanx82]

I'll run with a sponge prefilter and a sponge after filter. Sadly I won't load up the canister today as I have an early morning flight and trip to prepare for. I should have them loaded Thursday. I'm thinking 200 to 300 ml for a 90 gallon tank.

[jptenklooster]

I feed my gorgonia's with reefpearls, however, they contain a lot of phosphate, so we are currently trying to develop a similar feed with lower phosphate levels, but this will take some time before we have been able to produce and test it.

Originally Posted by Jk5

Very interesting.
Thank you jptenklooster for these tips.
Another feeding tips for other non photos or other invertebrates and corals?

[tor101898]

keeping up with the product,a lot of good information.

[recife111]

set up my Fluidised reactor today with 2500ml. got it fluidising slowly.
My tank is heavy stock with sps. currently .01ppm po4 and zero nitrate with lamotte test kit.

Dose 2 vials of biodigest bacteria .