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02/16/2016, 04:39 AM | #3126 |
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Karimwassef I wish I had taken before and after pics as well but like you too embarrassed lol! Mind you my outbreak was spotted early so never looked as bad as some although the impact on some corals was obvious. I can't add carbon yet as still using the polyp lab medic. Day four of having lights back to normal although have reduced the red spectrum a bit rocks are looking the cleanest they have ever been. All zoos, xenia, colt coral and Kenya trees looking good. Just two tiny spots appearing on them but most of the dusting gone now. 10 micron socks lasting two days now as well. Still dosing bacteria, coral snow and polyp lab medic to help with what seems to be a very slight outbreak of WS just on my coral beauty. I suspect this has been due to me doing so much siphoning! Pretty sure that is helping get rid of the 'dust' as after dosing I get a nice load of bits floating into the water column. Cheato completely clear now and starting to grow again, adding a nice population of pods every day as I now have a nice breeding tank going on. I still can't say it has gone completely but every day there is less and less just two or three strings yesterday on the colt and Kenya tree.
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02/16/2016, 02:29 PM | #3127 |
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02/16/2016, 04:11 PM | #3128 |
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Why is beaker > test tube?
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02/17/2016, 10:04 AM | #3129 |
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I seem to be winning the battle for the moment against my ostreopsis. After a week, visually, it is mostly gone from the rocks and sand surface in the display. It became more abundant on egg crate in my frag tank, so I've banished that for the moment also. Corals seems to be doing better, less closed, and my plate, hammer and torch corals seem to be well inflated and extended more than I've seen in a while. Carbonate (alk) consumption is up as well, but by what percentage I still need to work out.
I still have no measurable phosphates or nitrates in the water column The theory I've hung my hopes on is a lack of abundance and diversity of microfauna and microbial life, which seems to be improving. I'm basing this on microscopic observations of water samples, which I'm getting after taking a cup of substrate from the most afflicted spots, and taking a sample with a syringe from below the sand in said cup. There seems to be fewer dinos in the sample, and more (at least a dozen) ciliates I think. They are single cell beasties that move about with little hairs as legs. Last week, I only saw two, one each in 2 of 3 samples. There were also 4 or 5 worm shaped microbes, I've no idea what they might be called. Last week I only saw one of them, once, out of three samples. What I've done so far: -stopped carbon dosing (vinegar) -2ml/10 gal hydrogen peroxide -reduced skimming -increased feeding -adding 2 capfulls of Seachem Reef Phytoplankton daily This is all very anecdotal, but if there's any specific data I can begin collecting, or results I can test for repeatability, please let me know.
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75 Gal., bean animal drain, 80lbs of rock, 1" of crushed coral and aragonite mix and a pair of 850 Koralias. 25 gal. sump, Syncra 3 return, Eshopps PSK-150 skimmer and 2 150W heaters. Last edited by W1ngz; 02/17/2016 at 10:10 AM. |
02/17/2016, 10:48 AM | #3130 |
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Any order those need to be done in? Can you start dosing phyto anytime? Do you need to cut out carbon dosing/pellets before adding peroxide?
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02/17/2016, 11:27 AM | #3131 | |
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Quote:
From what I've read, ostreopsis is the most resilient type of common dinoflagellate. There's no 'one' cure, it needs to be multifaceted, sustained for several weeks, and probably repeated again periodically.
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75 Gal., bean animal drain, 80lbs of rock, 1" of crushed coral and aragonite mix and a pair of 850 Koralias. 25 gal. sump, Syncra 3 return, Eshopps PSK-150 skimmer and 2 150W heaters. |
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02/17/2016, 12:24 PM | #3132 |
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How can I know for sure this is what Im battling? Only way is under a scope?
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02/17/2016, 12:28 PM | #3133 | |
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Quote:
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75 Gal., bean animal drain, 80lbs of rock, 1" of crushed coral and aragonite mix and a pair of 850 Koralias. 25 gal. sump, Syncra 3 return, Eshopps PSK-150 skimmer and 2 150W heaters. |
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02/17/2016, 03:26 PM | #3134 |
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my update
I am just posting an update on my tank. I am assuming what I have in the tank may be amphidinium dino's. We were running the UV lite 24/7 and we noticed a big decrease in the dino's on the corals rocks and sand. Most of what was left was only in patches on the sand. My husband was syphoning out a lot of the dinos on the sand weekly as well. Then we added the macro algae and pods and that also helped. Last weekend we added Seachem Stability and shut off the UV for 24 hours as directed on their website. Today I am looking in the tank and the dino's are returning. So it is either from adding the Stability, shutting off the UV for 24 hours or a little of both? I have a question mark there because I am speculating. So I don't think I will be adding that anymore. Oh, and we have also been running a little dirtier tank than usual for the last few months no longer aiming for zero nitrates.
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02/17/2016, 04:17 PM | #3135 |
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why stop UV?? I left my UV on for months after I got the dinos out. It gave the other benthic microorganisms time to take hold.
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02/17/2016, 04:25 PM | #3136 | |
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Quote:
I am wondering if the dino's were feeding on the added bacteria.
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02/17/2016, 06:12 PM | #3137 |
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I am all for adding bacteria, but I add it directly to regions with high surface area.. Sandbed, rockwork, especially between and around the rocks, cryptic zones, etc...
IMO - I would turn flow off at night and apply the bacteria to the regions with the highest dino populations by day and give it some time (an hour?)... Then turn flow on again. If some are killed by UV- it's casualties of war. They usually also say to stop skimming. I don't do that. The extra bacteria population could consume a lot of oxygen, so I keep everything on.
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02/17/2016, 06:33 PM | #3138 | ||||||
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Thanks for taking on the task of developing a useful FAQ, Quiet_Ivy.
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I don't know as anyone has tried H2O2 + UV and followed up with the dirty method or pods & phyto to keep the dinos down, but it looks like it might be worth a shot. Quote:
Have you tried transplanting a beaker of dino sand into your 10G live sand culture tank? That is, have you tried the reverse of the experiment with the phyto tea in an upside-down fish bowl? Or if you don't want to risk that, have you played around with feeding dinos to your phyto tea? The idea being to increase the populations of whatever creatures, be they bacteria or protists or microfauna, are eating the dinos before you dose your tank. Quote:
Or maybe some OTC bacteria products are dino chow, as you suggested. Quiet_Ivy may have better info in her chart, but IIRC PorkchopExpress and cal_stir reported OTC bacteria-in-a-bottle did nothing and stopped dosing. There doesn't seem to have been much enthusiasm for it until relatively recently, though this is an exception: Quote:
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02/17/2016, 06:50 PM | #3139 |
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Who's used Dr Tim's waste away bacteria? They displace cyano
http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/natural-aquarium-cleaner
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02/17/2016, 09:28 PM | #3140 | |||
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Quote:
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Besides, if the culture live sand can't kill a few ml of dinos, then there's no point going through with the sandbed transplant. Quote:
Most of my beaker tests are based on the theory of the skimmer green tea outcompeting dinos for some resource like trace elements, but as I looked at papers on the topic, depletion was having an effect on the dinos over like 4 weeks or 8+ weeks. It just doesn't match what I'm seeing (dinos gone in 4-7 days). The short time scale strongly suggests predation (or poisoning etc). Realized this only after I set up my beaker tests. The skimmer tea is practically dino free (my dinos don't leave the sand) and likely concentrates stuff that eats dinos. In the right ratios it can eradicate a patch of dinos. In insufficient ratios, the dinos are unaffected. I put the skimmer stuff in light for 24-48 hours to try to concentrate whatever is in there, but it looks thin under the scope. Maybe it would work better straight out of the skimmer. After a few days of putting the mix with the dinos, at the time the dinos are decreasing, under the scope the mix looks absolutely packed with zooming life. I've also thought maybe I should cultivate the skimmer mix in the dark, that way the organisms in the mix would be undisturbed by lights out, and I could hit the dinos with a 1-2 of darkness + skimmer mix. I couldn't call it "green tea" though, Maybe I'll call that skimmer "black tea." Thank you again. |
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02/17/2016, 10:15 PM | #3141 |
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And just to add questions to a topic that has too many questions already...
I wasn't even planning on putting my samples under the scope until 2 or 3 days, but after less than 24 hours... I found this. All my beakers looked like brown, stringy, bubbly happy dinos ...except one that looked like this That's my What The Heck beaker. It's the only beaker with a treatment that no one would be willing to do in a tank. Had extra dino and mix, put 1 drop of 4-12-4 miracle grow quick start in 50ml of dinos mix. My sketchy math says that's 94 ppm nitrate and 89 ppm phosphate! So I figured I'd put it under the scope and see a complete dead wasteland. Nope. Lots of micro life swimming. 1 species of dino totally wiped out, but the other (amphidinium) still moving but in very reduced numbers. So weird. |
02/17/2016, 11:03 PM | #3142 |
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No way... seriously?
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02/17/2016, 11:05 PM | #3143 |
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can you try the standard stuff? 24-8-16? That's more rich in Nitrogen.
If that works, then maybe the freshwater nitrogen food?
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02/18/2016, 01:30 AM | #3144 |
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02/18/2016, 01:35 AM | #3145 | |
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Quote:
Even though you don't see any in your tank there may still be in their millions spread out though the sand, rock and water column. That very slight yellow tint of the water.... |
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02/18/2016, 07:27 AM | #3146 | |
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Fewer ingredients, fewer unknowns (but still plenty of those) But yeah, if this is effective long term I'll see if I can test a higher N version as well, hopefully test what ingredient is having an effect and see if a more sane dose can be effective. |
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02/18/2016, 08:33 AM | #3147 |
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Can you run an ammonia test on that sample? Ammoniacal nitrogen is a common ingredient in fertilizers.
I do the I.T. at a fertilizer plant where we produce all manner of soluble and liquid fertilizers. I've picked up a lot of this sort of knowledge over the years.
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02/19/2016, 06:57 PM | #3148 | |
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Quote:
I screwed up the tests somehow, contaminated all the beakers. Killed everything dino sized and larger in every beaker. Back to the drawing board. I did add a small dose of dino sand into my clean cultured 10 gal sandbed as suggested. Fingers crossed, hope it's established enough. |
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02/19/2016, 09:12 PM | #3149 |
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anybody know what kind of dip will kill ostreopsis? my tank is still squeaky clean but i have one SPS that's getting overwhelmed by the last few spots of dinos
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02/19/2016, 10:19 PM | #3150 |
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You might look around for a hydrogen peroxide dip recipe, if you're willing to take some risk. Something like Coral RX might be safe, but I don't know how well it'd kill dinoflagellates. Companies generally keep their products' ingredients under wraps.
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