Flame Angelfish (reef safe?) (w/ coral beauty?)

[brett559]

Hi all,

I have a coral beauty that is doing great - eats well, doesn't seem to bother my corals at all. Model citizen.

I'm considering a flame angel. I've done the research and see that they are hit-and-miss with corals and there might be some issues with the two angels. From what I've seen, they may fight at first, but should eventually leave each other alone. My two tangs fought at first, now they are okay.

Has anyone had a good experience mixing a coral beauty and a flame angel?

[Newsmyrna80]

How big is your tank?

[Zer0.]

Originally Posted by Newsmyrna80

How big is your tank?

90 gallon 3 foot x 2 foot x 2 foot, has a naso tang , yellow tang, foxface, Coral beauty and 2 clowns already......

[Zer0.]

duplicate.

[starionesir]

Naso and a yellow tang in a 90? Maybe okay to keep the yellow but the naso will quickly out grow that tank.

[MMacro]

Originally Posted by starionesir

Naso and a yellow tang in a 90? Maybe okay to keep the yellow but the naso will quickly out grow that tank.

Agreed. Take the naso out asap

[Timfish]

Here's two threads you might look up. The first is discussion on dwarf angels in reef aquaria and the second is on rehoming (which I see as essential over the decades our systems should live).

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...l+beauty+dwarf

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...light=rehoming

[ca1ore]

model citizen + enough time and opportunity = holy terror

[dan_k]

Can't comment on the coral beauty but I have owed 2 flame angels in my reef history and never had any problems as for mixing I would agree with you there will probably be some fighting in the beginning just add them at the same time you should be fine

[uncleL]

I have a 90G with Hippo tang , yellow tang, Scopas and Foxface, Coral beauty , Lawnmower Blenny Royal Gramma and 6 clowns. I was thinking about trading my CB for a FA. Yes I know crazy! But they (Tangs)will only stay for a year or so until they 4" Trade in for the smallest I can find.

[brett559]

Thanks for the input.

I am somewhat amazed by some of these posts. Like I am a monster because I have a certain fish in my tank. Someone said that it doesn't matter what fish I want, I should think of the fish first and foremost. This whole hobby is inherently selfish. I have a Naso tang in my 90 gallon because I want a Naso tang, and a 90 gallon system fell into my lap. When my Naso tang gets too big, I will post a link on my local reef club and within 20 minutes 15 people will be clamoring for a free, healthy Naso tang.

If any of you cared about the fish, you'd leave them in the ocean. The hobby requires us to take fish, who have evolved and are meant to swim in millions of gallons of water, and put them in a box. My box is 90 gallons, yours is 150. At the end of the day, your blue tang is in a cage. I mean, it is what it is. That's the whole point. We remove these ocean creatures and put them in our living room. And I love it - my children love it. It's super fun. If you agree to take a fish into your tank, you of course need to take care of it. But we are not doing these fish any favors. We do this because WE want a fish tank in our house. Period.

I didn't ask for advice on my Naso tang. I asked whether Flame Angels are reef safe. This is supposed to be a place where people can ask for advice. That's what I'm trying to do. Thank you for those who replied.

[Newsmyrna80]

Ok first off no one said you were a monster. You need to understand that we do not your level of experience and most new or relatively new aquarist do not know that fish have certain tank requirements for their own health. We've all been told by an LFS "oh sure, you can keep a tang in a 40 gallon".
As far as the flame angel they will nip at corals some. Mine never did much damage but as far as two of them in a 90 there may be some aggression.

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by brett559

I asked whether Flame Angels are reef safe.

And the answer is yes .... and no. Given enough time and opportunity, every flame I ever had eventually went over to the dark side. It's why I chuckle at the 'model citizen' comment. I had a flame in my current tank be said citizen for over year. Then, overnight, it went to town on my LPS and clams. SPS and softies were OK. IME, every dwarf angel is a risk. It may be a problem right away, or perhaps a year down the road - but if you are successful at keeping it long-term, eventually it will be a problem.

[Marishka]

I have a coral beauty,a pair of flame angels, potters and a lemonpeel in my reef and they dont bother anything-including each other (well occasionally they have a dispute over who gets to eat of the seaweed clip first) .My sailfin tang (reef safe fish !!!) however -developed the taste for my lps and had to go in my FOWLR. So i think it all depends on individual fish.

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by Marishka

I have a coral beauty,a pair of flame angels, potters and a lemonpeel in my reef and they dont bother anything-including each other.

OK, but how long have you had them? If the answer is years, then I'm surprised: if it's not .... just wait (I suppose it also depends on what else you have in the tank; SPS is generally left alone). FWIW, I have kept LemonPeel on multiple occasions and they were all a problem right from the start.

[Marishka]

All together they've been for about 2.5 years.The potter and coral beauty were added about a year ago. Though i gotta say-i do feed heavily.They get algae and New Era grazers everyday,plus brine,mysis and newlife pellets,and about twice a week a fresh clam from a local market.
I will also mention that originally i had a yellow angel who had to go right away as he found my zoas irresistible

[Dmorty217]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

model citizen + enough time and opportunity = holy terror

well put Simon

[Timfish]

The Coral Beauty has been in this tank since 2007:

http://youtu.be/Vs_etaHSOfQ

And the Lemon Peel in this tank has been in here for about 10 years:

http://youtu.be/5AnmQXmE8d0

[scags101]

Word of caution. Coming from experience in a 75gal reef tank. This does not work. My flame became very territorial and dominant till it almost killed my beauty. I had to quarantine it not its safe in my other 75 gal. I go by a rule of 1 angel fish per tank. They stay peaceful for me.

[BlueViper]

I have a Coral Beauty and a Flame Angel together in my 100 gal bowfront tank with no problems. They actually spend quite a bit of time together, and I only see the occasional chase or nip between them. I do have a lot of rock in my tank, so there are tons of hiding spots for them. When the lights go out, they each retreat to their own corners.

[brett559]

Thanks for all the advice. I might just stick with the one coral beauty.

[Dean Donaldson]

Hey Brett that was an awesome retort. Hats off to you sir! What you say is true... We all play God in our little way and stand as judge, jury and executioner in different ways. I mean seriously we take one fish from one side of world and another from a different part and as long as they got some 'arbitrary rule of thumb' about sizes and x per gallon or thee such guestimates or water conditions we are still learning about... End of day you do as you say, you research, you work within your knowledge and budget and we try and learn from each other! The thing I love is these animals have personalities. Just like people. Some love to travel and some don't. This over generalisation is laughable. It's a guideline, not a freaking rule book!! Else their would be only "one" way to recreate a reef... And let's be honest. There isn't!

[julie180]

My experience with cb and flames has been that the first one will terrorize the newbie probably to death. The only way I was able to keep one of each was introducing them at the same time.

[Timfish]

Brett and Dean, good points! Although I would say I do care for my fish and I do get attached to some and am saddened and miss them when I loose them.

Regarding fish growth and longevity here's a research paper on the longevity of tangs:
http://www.int-res.com/articles/meps/134/m134p015.pdf

And an article by Charles Delbeek and John Randall in which they discuss not only longevity but the disparity for some species between survivability in the wild and longevity in aquaria which may be much longer. (IF this holds true for tangs they may live much longer than the 35 - 45 years they live in the wild!):
http://www.reefsmagazine.com/forum/r...longevity.html

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by Dean Donaldson

We all play God in our little way and stand as judge, jury and executioner in different ways. I mean seriously we take one fish from one side of world and another from a different part and as long as they got some 'arbitrary rule of thumb' about sizes and x per gallon or thee such guestimates or water conditions we are still learning about... End of day you do as you say, you research, you work within your knowledge and budget and we try and learn from each other! The thing I love is these animals have personalities. Just like people. Some love to travel and some don't. This over generalisation is laughable. It's a guideline, not a freaking rule book!! Else their would be only "one" way to recreate a reef... And let's be honest. There isn't!

Most of what you say is true - if we REALLY cared about the welfare of the animals we keep in our tanks, we'd leave them in the ocean (although that may become increasingly problematic too ). But, if folks are going to post on RC, it is presumably to solicit and share advice/experience with and from other reefkeepers (I cannot frankly think of any other good reason to do so). Some of that advice will be good, some bad; some will be appreciated, some rejected. You are right that suggesting to somebody else what is and what isn't appropriate for their tank is an inexact science, particularly at the 'edges', but I think in most cases it comes from the right places, caring about the animals and not wanting those new to the hobby to make mistakes that they will come to regret. I don't think there are many of us that can stand up and say we haven't made a few ill-conceived purchases - some from early ignorance, some because 'I just had to have it' .... whatever 'it' may be. But I just see too many threads where somebody stuffed a few Tangs in a small tank and then couldn't understand why they got ich and died - something that could have been avoided with a bit of good advice.

If, at the end of the day, somebody new to the hobby, thinking they know better, spurns good advice and follows a foolish path, then that is their prerogative - it is likely though that they will not be long for the game and will spend more than they needed to. Which is fine too