Benefits and Difficulty of DIY

TimmyD16 · 09/12/2012, 12:20 PM

So I am new to this whole hobby, and am meticulously planning my future tank. I am a DIYer and would love to do as much DIY as I can, but I just have some questions about the pros/cons of certain DIY, and the skill level they involve. ie:

How difficult is it to construct an acrylic tank? on a scale of 1-10, 1 being beginner and 10 being master-craftman (5 being someone who has a skill set and knowledge of tools and building things). Also if I do build a tank would it be cost effective? Are there are some specialty tools I would need to buy? But most importantly, would my final product last as long as a tank I buy off a store?

DIY rock? is it potentially as good of a home to all those beneficial critters as regular dry rock? do they take to it well? will it ever look like real rock? or would it obviously be fake...

Skimmers? would the quality ever get there? I have been looking at a recirculating needle-wheel design, would it ever be close to the real thing?

Basically I want your experiences with DIY in the hobby and the lessons learned from said experiences.

Thanks,

Tim

mcgyvr · 09/12/2012, 06:23 PM

my opinion.. (I'm very handy BTW for reference..)
acrylic tank construction is fairly easy.. but does take some practice.. start out with simple stuff like a couple gallon auto top off tank or something..
The biggest issues are proper fixturing/clamps to keep it aligned when applying the solvent and having a good clean edge and proper solvent fill. Weld-on #3 is what I use and love it..very simple to apply with a syringe.
cut to rough shape with a table saw (carbide blade) and then clean up the edges with a router table/bit. plenty of youtube videos showing how to do it.. Its actually pretty fun IMO.. I make everything out of acrylic now.. nori clip hooks/ato boxes/overflows/dividers for the wifes knive drawers,etc.. Just start small/practice...drink a beer and have fun

diy rock.. yes it can be just as good as dry/live rock you purchase if done right..eventually its all covered up with corals/coralline algae,etc and you barely if at all notice the difference.

diy skimmer...sure they are actually very simple devices.. its not hard at all to make your own and have it perform just as good as the best out there..

the only side note to each of those questions.. there are times it may cost more to DIY versus purchase.. so do what you can and buy what you can't.

just do your homework first and it should all work out fine..

TimmyD16 · 09/12/2012, 06:36 PM

Thank you mcgyvr! you've actually re-instilled my faith in my DIY projects...

Anyone else care to comment?

JEC11718 · 09/12/2012, 06:42 PM

+1 to DIY!

RocketEngineer · 09/12/2012, 07:35 PM

Personally, I think some things are a matter of degree.

Tank: Is the tank you want something custom or can you live with a standard size? If you can live with a standard size then its cheaper to get a standard tank (not reef ready) and install a DIY overflow setup. The cheapest way to do this is to find a used tank and modify it yourself. In my case I found a 125g tank for $300 and will be adding a BeanAnimal drain setup. All total the tank will run me about $400 including the new glass for the overflow. Given that I would need at least (2) 48"X96" sheets of acrylic at $350 each to build the same tank (72"X18"X21"H), it is significantly cheaper to buy a glass tank than to build an acrylic tank.

Rock: There are a number of companies selling dry rock of all shapes and sizes. Because its dry it's cheaper and doesn't have the pests. Also, being dry means you don't need as much weight in rock as the wet stuff to get the same visual results. A few choice piece of LR to seed the tank and giving the setup enough time will have the stuff looking like it came from the ocean. Patience is key.

Skimmer: I have yet to find a DIY plan for a skimmer that I would build. There is a kit by Avast Marine that I have considered for a future upgrade but that's a kit rather than from scratch. Otherwise, I don't see any reason to DIY a skimmer.

What I would DIY:
Overflow: I will never pay for someone to install my overflow simply because the ones available don't allow the kind of drain setup I want. After lots of research and a flawed setup on my 75g, I'm going BeanAnimal overflow with a coast-to-coast internal box from here on out. Not something you can buy. Also, I don't want teeth on my overflow because they reduce the amount of surface skimming and that's the whole point of an overflow box.

Stand: Most commercial stands are too short for the skimmers available. I built the stand for my 75g/125g setup and would do so again. Because I knew where it was going, I also added doors on the ends for easy access and deeper than the tank so the plumbing and wires are hidden by panels behind the tank. In addition to making it the size you want, you can build it to match the style of your choice for less than paying someone else to do it for you.

Hood: Same reasons as stand. Plus you can size it to match the light.

Sump: If you start with a standard tank and add baffles you can size the compartments to match your system. In my case I used a 40g breeder from Petco's $1 per gallon sale as the base and installed the baffles where I needed them. Cheap and it fit the skimmer quite well.

If you want to make full use of your stand, a custom DIY acrylic sump is definitely the way to go. The smaller size means you can use smaller materials which in turn are significantly cheaper.

Light: The type you want to use will determine how much you gain. MH and T5 setups are fairly cheap to begin with but you can save some. LED is where it really counts to DIY. And given some of the kits available its very easy to get all the parts you need.

So, there are some things worth DIY and the rest it is best to get off the shelf. In some cases, starting with an off the shelf part and modifying it is best because you get the low cost of commercial parts with the result you want. It all boils down to a choice of saving money or DIY. If saving money is the goal, a combination of commercial and DIY will most likely be the way to go.

HTH,
RocketEngineer

TimmyD16 · 09/12/2012, 07:52 PM

I think part of the problem, at least for me, is that there are more benefits to DIY then simply saving money (pride and all that blah blah...), but you are very right RocketEngineer, there are many things DIY wouldn't save money on, and when approaching this from a purely economic standpoint a lot of times DIY isn't useful... Thank you for your input.

Lionfish666 · 09/13/2012, 06:18 PM

Why not make it in glass? I made my DT and sump and very happy with the results/dimensions.
3/10 difficulty so long as you have an extra set of hands and prep right.

sfsuphysics · 09/13/2012, 06:44 PM

Many people make things simply because they like making things.

You'd probably be hard pressed to build your own tank and save much of any money unless it's very large or some odd custom shape, which would unfortunately bring the difficulty up a few notches. For something like a sump, and opinions do vary with this, I just like using some beat up old tank and then glue in baffles as necessary, cut the top off as necessary, reinforce as necessary. With that there is a little DIY type of pride to it.

Rocks, could be shapes or a vision that you have in mind that gets a little more difficult with "real" rocks.

A skimmer I probably wouldn't DIY myself simply because there are a multitude of skimmers out there that are great for many sized tanks, some are expensive yes, however lots are not. I have seen someone, from a Mexican reefing forum if memory serves, actually build a build one of the larger Bubble King skimmers from scratch, granted they did have the Red Dragon pumps but still the rest of the skimmer was built in such a way that it showed a definite craftsmanship and specialty tools he had. Probably saved $2000+ building it himself (I'm guessing at the number because I'm not sure how much the raw material cost as I can't read Spanish

).

peppie · 09/13/2012, 09:23 PM

Skimmers are not that difficult to build. However you will need a router and router table to do it right.
I built an Air driven Counter current skimmer that is 54'' tall for about $300.

For me it is all about the build, not the price. Most times I come out ahead $ wise. Sometimes NOT.

TimmyD16 · 09/14/2012, 05:18 PM

So would a glass tank build be theoretically easier that acrylic?

peppie, where did you get or how did you make that conic section of that skimmer? If you don't mind me asking...

I like the idea of fake rocks, for one you aren't taking anything out of the ocean (i know that they're just rocks but it'll make me feel good), but mainly because you can create a total custom aquascape, I was just worried that a) they wouldn't be as good of homes for critters than natural rock and b) that given a period of time they still wouldn't look natural at all.

peppie · 09/14/2012, 09:18 PM

The cone shape started out as a 16'' round 3/8'' piece of cell cast.
I built a round jig to hold the outside edge. Heated up the jig and acrylic in a homemade oven, for about 45min. Pulled it out and used a 6'' diam. ram to push the cone into shape. I used the same jig to route both bottom and top edges flat.

If you do some homework on DIY rock you will find that they can be very reefrock like or a waste of time. If done right you can not tell the difference by looking at them after they coraline up. If you get the correct mixture they can be very porous.

TimmyD16 · 09/15/2012, 11:20 AM

Man that skimmer looks beautiful... I hope that when the time comes and I plunge into a DIY skimmer, it'll turn out half that nice... Just curious, what type of design is it? and are you happy with it?

peppie · 09/15/2012, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimmyD16

Man that skimmer looks beautiful... I hope that when the time comes and I plunge into a DIY skimmer, it'll turn out half that nice... Just curious, what type of design is it? and are you happy with it?

Thanks Tim,
It is an Air Driven Counter Current ( Old School) It will be set up on my DIY 450 gal system. Due to take water in about a year. It is modeled on a proven skimmer running a 500 gal system belonging to a local reefer.
I like this style of skimmer, cause you can control the gph of water that enters and I can also control the air volume entering.

I have no fears that this thing will rock!!

Here is a link to the Skimmer/Sump build
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2165520

HTH

09/12/2012, 12:20 PM	#1
TimmyD16 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 280	Benefits and Difficulty of DIY So I am new to this whole hobby, and am meticulously planning my future tank. I am a DIYer and would love to do as much DIY as I can, but I just have some questions about the pros/cons of certain DIY, and the skill level they involve. ie: How difficult is it to construct an acrylic tank? on a scale of 1-10, 1 being beginner and 10 being master-craftman (5 being someone who has a skill set and knowledge of tools and building things). Also if I do build a tank would it be cost effective? Are there are some specialty tools I would need to buy? But most importantly, would my final product last as long as a tank I buy off a store? DIY rock? is it potentially as good of a home to all those beneficial critters as regular dry rock? do they take to it well? will it ever look like real rock? or would it obviously be fake... Skimmers? would the quality ever get there? I have been looking at a recirculating needle-wheel design, would it ever be close to the real thing? Basically I want your experiences with DIY in the hobby and the lessons learned from said experiences. Thanks, Tim

09/12/2012, 06:23 PM	#2
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	my opinion.. (I'm very handy BTW for reference..) acrylic tank construction is fairly easy.. but does take some practice.. start out with simple stuff like a couple gallon auto top off tank or something.. The biggest issues are proper fixturing/clamps to keep it aligned when applying the solvent and having a good clean edge and proper solvent fill. Weld-on #3 is what I use and love it..very simple to apply with a syringe. cut to rough shape with a table saw (carbide blade) and then clean up the edges with a router table/bit. plenty of youtube videos showing how to do it.. Its actually pretty fun IMO.. I make everything out of acrylic now.. nori clip hooks/ato boxes/overflows/dividers for the wifes knive drawers,etc.. Just start small/practice...drink a beer and have fun diy rock.. yes it can be just as good as dry/live rock you purchase if done right..eventually its all covered up with corals/coralline algae,etc and you barely if at all notice the difference. diy skimmer...sure they are actually very simple devices.. its not hard at all to make your own and have it perform just as good as the best out there.. the only side note to each of those questions.. there are times it may cost more to DIY versus purchase.. so do what you can and buy what you can't. just do your homework first and it should all work out fine.. __________________ Who me?

09/12/2012, 07:35 PM	#5
RocketEngineer Space is big. Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Maryland Eastern Shore Posts: 3,226	Personally, I think some things are a matter of degree. Tank: Is the tank you want something custom or can you live with a standard size? If you can live with a standard size then its cheaper to get a standard tank (not reef ready) and install a DIY overflow setup. The cheapest way to do this is to find a used tank and modify it yourself. In my case I found a 125g tank for $300 and will be adding a BeanAnimal drain setup. All total the tank will run me about $400 including the new glass for the overflow. Given that I would need at least (2) 48"X96" sheets of acrylic at $350 each to build the same tank (72"X18"X21"H), it is significantly cheaper to buy a glass tank than to build an acrylic tank. Rock: There are a number of companies selling dry rock of all shapes and sizes. Because its dry it's cheaper and doesn't have the pests. Also, being dry means you don't need as much weight in rock as the wet stuff to get the same visual results. A few choice piece of LR to seed the tank and giving the setup enough time will have the stuff looking like it came from the ocean. Patience is key. Skimmer: I have yet to find a DIY plan for a skimmer that I would build. There is a kit by Avast Marine that I have considered for a future upgrade but that's a kit rather than from scratch. Otherwise, I don't see any reason to DIY a skimmer. What I would DIY: Overflow: I will never pay for someone to install my overflow simply because the ones available don't allow the kind of drain setup I want. After lots of research and a flawed setup on my 75g, I'm going BeanAnimal overflow with a coast-to-coast internal box from here on out. Not something you can buy. Also, I don't want teeth on my overflow because they reduce the amount of surface skimming and that's the whole point of an overflow box. Stand: Most commercial stands are too short for the skimmers available. I built the stand for my 75g/125g setup and would do so again. Because I knew where it was going, I also added doors on the ends for easy access and deeper than the tank so the plumbing and wires are hidden by panels behind the tank. In addition to making it the size you want, you can build it to match the style of your choice for less than paying someone else to do it for you. Hood: Same reasons as stand. Plus you can size it to match the light. Sump: If you start with a standard tank and add baffles you can size the compartments to match your system. In my case I used a 40g breeder from Petco's $1 per gallon sale as the base and installed the baffles where I needed them. Cheap and it fit the skimmer quite well. If you want to make full use of your stand, a custom DIY acrylic sump is definitely the way to go. The smaller size means you can use smaller materials which in turn are significantly cheaper. Light: The type you want to use will determine how much you gain. MH and T5 setups are fairly cheap to begin with but you can save some. LED is where it really counts to DIY. And given some of the kits available its very easy to get all the parts you need. So, there are some things worth DIY and the rest it is best to get off the shelf. In some cases, starting with an off the shelf part and modifying it is best because you get the low cost of commercial parts with the result you want. It all boils down to a choice of saving money or DIY. If saving money is the goal, a combination of commercial and DIY will most likely be the way to go. HTH, RocketEngineer __________________ -RocketEngineer "Knowledge is what you get when you read the directions, experience is what you get when you don't." - Unknown Current Tank Info: None Currently

09/13/2012, 06:44 PM	#8
sfsuphysics Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Francisco Posts: 9,103	Many people make things simply because they like making things. You'd probably be hard pressed to build your own tank and save much of any money unless it's very large or some odd custom shape, which would unfortunately bring the difficulty up a few notches. For something like a sump, and opinions do vary with this, I just like using some beat up old tank and then glue in baffles as necessary, cut the top off as necessary, reinforce as necessary. With that there is a little DIY type of pride to it. Rocks, could be shapes or a vision that you have in mind that gets a little more difficult with "real" rocks. A skimmer I probably wouldn't DIY myself simply because there are a multitude of skimmers out there that are great for many sized tanks, some are expensive yes, however lots are not. I have seen someone, from a Mexican reefing forum if memory serves, actually build a build one of the larger Bubble King skimmers from scratch, granted they did have the Red Dragon pumps but still the rest of the skimmer was built in such a way that it showed a definite craftsmanship and specialty tools he had. Probably saved $2000+ building it himself (I'm guessing at the number because I'm not sure how much the raw material cost as I can't read Spanish ). __________________ Mike

09/12/2012, 06:36 PM	#3
TimmyD16 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 280	Thank you mcgyvr! you've actually re-instilled my faith in my DIY projects... Anyone else care to comment?

09/12/2012, 06:42 PM	#4
JEC11718 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 94	+1 to DIY!

09/12/2012, 07:52 PM	#6
TimmyD16 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 280	I think part of the problem, at least for me, is that there are more benefits to DIY then simply saving money (pride and all that blah blah...), but you are very right RocketEngineer, there are many things DIY wouldn't save money on, and when approaching this from a purely economic standpoint a lot of times DIY isn't useful... Thank you for your input.

09/13/2012, 06:18 PM	#7
Lionfish666 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 166	Why not make it in glass? I made my DT and sump and very happy with the results/dimensions. 3/10 difficulty so long as you have an extra set of hands and prep right.

09/13/2012, 09:23 PM	#9
peppie Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,883	Skimmers are not that difficult to build. However you will need a router and router table to do it right. I built an Air driven Counter current skimmer that is 54'' tall for about $300. For me it is all about the build, not the price. Most times I come out ahead $ wise. Sometimes NOT.

09/14/2012, 05:18 PM	#10
TimmyD16 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 280	So would a glass tank build be theoretically easier that acrylic? peppie, where did you get or how did you make that conic section of that skimmer? If you don't mind me asking... I like the idea of fake rocks, for one you aren't taking anything out of the ocean (i know that they're just rocks but it'll make me feel good), but mainly because you can create a total custom aquascape, I was just worried that a) they wouldn't be as good of homes for critters than natural rock and b) that given a period of time they still wouldn't look natural at all.

09/14/2012, 09:18 PM	#11
peppie Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,883	The cone shape started out as a 16'' round 3/8'' piece of cell cast. I built a round jig to hold the outside edge. Heated up the jig and acrylic in a homemade oven, for about 45min. Pulled it out and used a 6'' diam. ram to push the cone into shape. I used the same jig to route both bottom and top edges flat. If you do some homework on DIY rock you will find that they can be very reefrock like or a waste of time. If done right you can not tell the difference by looking at them after they coraline up. If you get the correct mixture they can be very porous.

09/15/2012, 11:20 AM	#12
TimmyD16 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 280	Man that skimmer looks beautiful... I hope that when the time comes and I plunge into a DIY skimmer, it'll turn out half that nice... Just curious, what type of design is it? and are you happy with it?