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Old 07/04/2018, 10:39 PM   #9776
rlinusc
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Thank you, I will raise the open channel even more, do you also think I should change the orientation of the open channel? (Instead of a t and 90 elbow, I should use 2 elbows? Not sure how that looks exactly, and a little worried it will fit in the box, should I just use the t with the elbow facing up?

As for both. The siphon and open, do you think I should use a 90 and then vertical in, or stick with 45? I thought the single 45 angle was better than 2 90 elbows, but losing a vertical drop might matter?


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Old 07/05/2018, 11:04 AM   #9777
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Oh and a few points of clarification.

My open channel has the elbow currently facing down (think of a faucet).

I also did not provide one key piece of information.

The drains are 1" pVC, but the open channel inside the box, is actually 3/4" pipe, that is because i was worried about space inside the box and used a 3/4 " coupler (which fits the 1" hole) and then attached the 3/4" pipe, elbow and T-. sounds like i may want to increase the open channel standpipe to a full 1"inside the overflow box.

Is that correct?

and just to double check so i don't do this again. It is better to have a vertical drop that uses 2 elbows then a slanted drop using only 1 elbow, is that correct?


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Old 07/05/2018, 06:16 PM   #9778
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Ok, as far as how u have drains designed I think u are fine. Inside the over box I would keep the tee with the 90 facing down on the open channel. The only thing I would change is use a 1” street 90 to go into the tee instead of reducing down to 3/4”. As far as the pipes going to the sump, I would also leave them the same as far as I can tell. It is better to use a 45 & run the pipe on a 45 degree angle to get to where u need to go, then another 45 to get back square with the sump. That is better then using two 90’s. U are essentially using 2- 45’s instead of 2- 90’s, which using the 45’s are better.

The only reason I said to turn the 90 facing up is just to test everything out. Basically set the open channel to where it isn’t taking any water at all. If it quiets down then u know the noise is coming from the open channel. With the open channel not taking any water u can also adjust the water level inside the overflow so u can find the sweet spot as far as where u need to run the water level. That’s easier to do if the open channel isn’t taking any water. Once u determine the water level u can set the height of the open channel. To me that would be easier then keeping adjusting everything & going back & forth on the adjustments


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Old 07/24/2018, 03:47 AM   #9779
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Hello everyone, this is my first post here on RC but i've been reading for a while silently

I wanted to share my project and maybe have some advice about the setup since i have time to change if i made errors or missunderstood how a bean animal works.

Here are the render on how it should be (pardon my poor skills)



(here is a link for the front view, don't want to post images that are not really relevant i think https://i.imgur.com/xyyoZNs.png)



So, the 4 red marked pvc joints are going to be on the other side of the glass, so everything will be dropped down few cm (sorry, metric system here in Italy).

- the third pipe is going to be the syphon and will be as close as possible to the bottom of the box.. that is what i understood, to avoid that something could go sucked in (it will anyway, i know)

- the second pipe is the open channel (it's not drilled on top for the vent, this is still a mockup), the vertical pipe marked with the arrow can be adjusted in height as needed.

- the fourth pipe is the emergency, has to be cut down to size, nothing is glued for now.

- the first is the return pipe from the pump, has nothing to do with the rest.

The box is going to be mounted on a rimless tank and siliconed flush on top, the box is not a full coast to coast design since i need extra space on the side, the total height is 18 cm (7") and it's 42 cm wide (16").. the weir is 4cm from the top oh the glass (1.5") and as i understand the waterfall in the box should not be more than 1" (2.5 cm), i think it should be ok like this.

So how should i proceed now? Drill the holes on the bottom of the box and silicone all in place, then fix the syphon in place as it is now and use the valve to adjust the flow right? The height of the emergency should be cut 1" (2.5cm) from the top of the glass, that is not a big deal, but how can i set the height of the open channel?

The valve on the syphon is what is going to set the water height in the box? so the open channel could be cut in relation of this height, or not? I saw some drawnings here way back 100 pages, but some say to leave them on the same height.

Thanks and sorry for my english.


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Old 07/26/2018, 09:50 PM   #9780
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Sounds like u pretty much have it figured out. With a exterior box it’s usually best to have the open channel higher then the syphon. It’s interior boxes where it doesn’t matter as much & u can drill the holes at the same hieght.

The valve is what sets the water level inside of the box, but the open channel is what determines where the water level is set. U only want a trickle of water going down the open channel. So determine where u want the water level & set the open channel at that hieght, then use the valve on the syphon to get it to that water level.

In your picture where the top blue line is relative to the open channel would be to much water going down the open channel & it would be loud. About the highest u will want the water level on the open channel is about where the bottom blue line is on your syphon standpipe. Depending on the size of the plumbing it may even have to be a little lower then that. So determine where u want the water level inside of the box & set that point of the open channel at that height. It looks like 1” plumbing so I would shoot for about 1/4” lower then where the blue line is on your syphon standpipe. A 1” open channel can’t take much water & be silent.

It sounds like the tank is actually notched for a weir then. If that is the case I would just set that section of the open channel about 1/2” to 1” lower then the weir, then set the emergency 1” above that. To me it’s better to start a little higher then lower. U can always just cut a little off the pipe if u find u need to lower it a little bit. If u need to raise it u have to cut a new piece of pipe. Don’t glue any of the plumbing inside of the overflow box. It’s not needed & u don’t want it set in place to where u can’t make adjustments or reve the pipes for cleaning or whatever reason.


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Old 07/27/2018, 10:01 AM   #9781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pigr8 View Post
Hello everyone, this is my first post here on RC but i've been reading for a while silently

I wanted to share my project and maybe have some advice about the setup since i have time to change if i made errors or missunderstood how a bean animal works.

Here are the render on how it should be (pardon my poor skills)


So, the 4 red marked pvc joints are going to be on the other side of the glass, so everything will be dropped down few cm (sorry, metric system here in Italy).

- the third pipe is going to be the syphon and will be as close as possible to the bottom of the box.. that is what i understood, to avoid that something could go sucked in (it will anyway, i know)

- the second pipe is the open channel (it's not drilled on top for the vent, this is still a mockup), the vertical pipe marked with the arrow can be adjusted in height as needed.

- the fourth pipe is the emergency, has to be cut down to size, nothing is glued for now.

- the first is the return pipe from the pump, has nothing to do with the rest.

The box is going to be mounted on a rimless tank and siliconed flush on top, the box is not a full coast to coast design since i need extra space on the side, the total height is 18 cm (7") and it's 42 cm wide (16").. the weir is 4cm from the top oh the glass (1.5") and as i understand the waterfall in the box should not be more than 1" (2.5 cm), i think it should be ok like this.

So how should i proceed now? Drill the holes on the bottom of the box and silicone all in place, then fix the syphon in place as it is now and use the valve to adjust the flow right? The height of the emergency should be cut 1" (2.5cm) from the top of the glass, that is not a big deal, but how can i set the height of the open channel?

The valve on the syphon is what is going to set the water height in the box? so the open channel could be cut in relation of this height, or not? I saw some drawnings here way back 100 pages, but some say to leave them on the same height.

Thanks and sorry for my english.
Couple things to add, correct me if i'm wrong, it seems like you're going to silicone the pipes in place, if that's true, I would advise against it. use bulkheads to pass the pipes through the glass.

second, is to ensure that you use a gate valve on your full siphon in order to be able to fine tune the water level in the overflow.


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Old 07/27/2018, 03:17 PM   #9782
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Hello everyone, thanks for the replys

So progress has been made, i drilled the holes in the glass (measuring where was a bit tricky because they land vertically in the sump and i wanted them i a precise spot) and then build the box, this is the result:



Quote:
Originally Posted by Lsufan View Post
The valve is what sets the water level inside of the box, but the open channel is what determines where the water level is set. U only want a trickle of water going down the open channel. So determine where u want the water level & set the open channel at that hieght, then use the valve on the syphon to get it to that water level.
perfect, that is exactly how i wanted to proceed, thanks for the confirmation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lsufan View Post
It sounds like the tank is actually notched for a weir then. If that is the case I would just set that section of the open channel about 1/2Ē to 1Ē lower then the weir, then set the emergency 1Ē above that.
Mmm good advice, after i placed the box on the tank i will probably do so and tweak it later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lsufan View Post
Donít glue any of the plumbing inside of the overflow box. Itís not needed & u donít want it set in place to where u canít make adjustments or reve the pipes for cleaning or whatever reason.
Yep i'm not going to glue them, only the elbows are because they are cut shorter and have to be supported. The vertical pipes will not be glued so everything could be removed for cleaning, and those are not in definitive lenght and have to be adjusted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sisterlimonpot View Post
Couple things to add, correct me if i'm wrong, it seems like you're going to silicone the pipes in place, if that's true, I would advise against it. use bulkheads to pass the pipes through the glass.
Nope no silicone will be in contact with pvc, it doesn't stick, there are 2 rubber gromet inside and outside the glass like in the picture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sisterlimonpot View Post
second, is to ensure that you use a gate valve on your full siphon in order to be able to fine tune the water level in the overflow.
The valve is in my shopping list, it seems no one has them here in Italy, i have to order one in the UK (nearest place) and will be pricey (70$).


Box is finished, i will repost when done/tested but so far everything should be ok.


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Old 07/28/2018, 09:02 PM   #9783
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The valve is in my shopping list, it seems no one has them here in Italy, i have to order one in the UK (nearest place) and will be pricey (70$).
I was having a hard tie trying to source an all pvc gate valve, it seems that they're only used in our hobby, cheapest I found it was off of zoro.com . Not sure if that helps you in Italy or not though.

I always wondered if a better choice of valve for the full siphon should've been a globe valve, they not only allow for fine tuning but they also act as a regulator. Maybe the price plays a big role in that decision.


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Old 08/04/2018, 07:12 AM   #9784
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5 years of service for my bean animal and all of a sudden the air will not purge out of the primary drain...
Drains are around an inch under the surface in the sump. They are not glued near the sump for easier service and I disconnected the primary a few days ago and I think I broke the air tight seal it may have had? Could this be the source of all of the air not purging creating the air bubbles noise near the display?
Never before have I not been able to clear the air from the system

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Old 08/04/2018, 10:57 AM   #9785
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5 years of service for my bean animal and all of a sudden the air will not purge out of the primary drain...
Drains are around an inch under the surface in the sump. They are not glued near the sump for easier service and I disconnected the primary a few days ago and I think I broke the air tight seal it may have had? Could this be the source of all of the air not purging creating the air bubbles noise near the display?
Never before have I not been able to clear the air from the system

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possible but unlikely. I would first check the breather hole on the open channel to ensure it's not clogged with salt creep. and move on from there. If it's clogged then the open channel is trying to become a full siphon as well, which will prevent your full siphon to purge. if you outfitted your open channel with a ball valve, close it off and see if you can purge the air from your full siphon. That should point you down the right path.


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Old 08/04/2018, 12:20 PM   #9786
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possible but unlikely. I would first check the breather hole on the open channel to ensure it's not clogged with salt creep. and move on from there. If it's clogged then the open channel is trying to become a full siphon as well, which will prevent your full siphon to purge. if you outfitted your open channel with a ball valve, close it off and see if you can purge the air from your full siphon. That should point you down the right path.
Thanks for the reply. I checked the breather hole and it is not clogged. I am currently trying to purge the siphon channel by closing the open channel..it's slowly filling until the emergency drain begins to do its job..I then open the open channel and I can hear the air from the breather hole, it immediately goes back to normal level I have it set at with no results to fixing the air trapped..

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Old 08/04/2018, 12:24 PM   #9787
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Also, if I place my finger over the breather ot does not cause the open channel to become a full siphon

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Old 08/04/2018, 05:18 PM   #9788
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Is there a way for you to post a picture of your configuration?


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Old 08/04/2018, 05:38 PM   #9789
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I took the air line off earlier...it's going back on tonight..let me know if you need more photos.
The returns go into a 50 gallon sump jist below in the basement.
2 45 elbows are used on each line..

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Old 08/04/2018, 05:41 PM   #9790
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Quote:
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I took the air line off earlier...it's going back on tonight..let me know if you need more photos.
The returns go into a 50 gallon sump jist below in the basement.
2 45 elbows are used on each line..

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You can try shortening the full siphon to around 1/4 inch below the water surface in the sump. That might help it purge the air easier.


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Old 08/04/2018, 07:52 PM   #9791
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It looks like u have a coupling on the syphon close to where it enters the sump. If it isn’t glued I would just remove the pipe after the coupling & see if it helps. It will be loud at the sump but it will let u know if that is the issue. If it is then cut the pipe to where it is just below the water level in the sump.


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Old 08/04/2018, 08:56 PM   #9792
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It looks like u have a coupling on the syphon close to where it enters the sump. If it isnít glued I would just remove the pipe after the coupling & see if it helps. It will be loud at the sump but it will let u know if that is the issue. If it is then cut the pipe to where it is just below the water level in the sump.
Thank you for the tip. I will give it a try and report back.

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Old 08/04/2018, 10:58 PM   #9793
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Unfortunately that didn't not work. I removed that section near the sump to try and purge the line with no luck.

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Old 08/05/2018, 08:43 AM   #9794
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you have an air leak somewhere in the siphon line and the open channel. I'd bet the leak is at the threaded caps.


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Old 08/05/2018, 10:54 AM   #9795
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Something must have moved the other day when i was doing maintenance.
I guess I wait for salt creep to find my leak
Any other ideas? I wonder if the valve is leaking somehwere.
Funny thing is, is it didn't loosen those caps since it started up years ago?

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Old 08/05/2018, 12:16 PM   #9796
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https://youtu.be/tNxIev7-uL0

Think I found my leak...
Taking it apart and cleaning it out now..gonna make sure the rubber seal is good and cleaned

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Old 08/06/2018, 07:39 PM   #9797
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U may find that u just need to tighten it a little. The gasket may have compressed a little over time so it isn’t as tight as it used to be.


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Old 08/06/2018, 08:40 PM   #9798
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I'm glad you found it... it's so obvious now that you posted that video...


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Old Yesterday, 02:08 PM   #9799
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Still sucking air..I may have to replace the union.
I can not get it to stop sucking air no matter how tight I get it..
Any suggestions?

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Old Yesterday, 02:22 PM   #9800
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You may have the right idea, anything that you do to try to repair it would be the equivalent of putting a band aid on it.

You can try cleaning the area and slopping on tons of glue, but replacing everything from the valve down would be best. You can also use this a s a perfect opportunity to put the required gate valve on it rather than a ball valve, that way you have better control over the full siphon.


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