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05/05/2012, 08:02 PM | #1 |
The "DIY Guy"
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LED, driver & controller, power supply: advice for a large reeftank
Hello LED DIY'ers and Masters!
I really need your help and expertise here! I'm working in a large reef tank >>> http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2003931 <<< and the illumination phase arrived. At the beginning of this project was considered MH+T5 combo (it was based on my experience back on '02) , but nowadays i'm really excited to play around with LED. still a newbie on this LED world but loving this thing. I spent a lot of time researching here at RC and learnt a lot from: DIY LEDs - The write-up - http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...php?p=18488741 Arduino with display for DWZM's CAT4101 LED drivers - http://mail1.reefcentral.com/forums/...php?p=18847574 Who wants a cheap, simple, Arduino-based LED controller? - http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1847680 DIY LED driver for reef lighting - http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1759758 But I have to confess that i'm really confused about:
As I said I know nothing about LED and i'm ready to strictly follow your advices! btw, that's the LED layout that i'm planning Thanks in advance!
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05/05/2012, 08:08 PM | #2 | |
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... just found this valuable information (i guess):
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05/05/2012, 08:10 PM | #3 | |
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05/05/2012, 08:33 PM | #4 |
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Not sure if any of this will help you, but I just finished my led setup. I have a 210g (72x24x30h)... Below is the diagram I used. The heat sinks are 8.5x18" and are about 14" above the water. I used 10 inventronics drivers to drive all led's on 6 channels. I'm disappointed in the incentronics as I thought I could dim them more than they do. I would suggest meanwells instead. I get really good spectrum with them all around 85-90% ramped up. I did go thru a brown phase when I swapped out, but the color is quickly coming back. I had mh's before. I can say this...there's no comparison with the shimmur of the leds. Makes a huge difference...and the royal blues make everything pop! If you have any specific things I can help with, just ask...
Scott. |
05/06/2012, 07:48 AM | #5 |
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Hey Scott, thank you and WOW!!!!
what about the intensity at the moment of the shot, 99% for every color? and where did you buy all this LEDs? are they glued on the heat sink or did you use the solderless approach? just to know, per fixture you're using 43 LEDs on a 8.5" x 18" heat sink, right? any cooling fan? i just noticed you're using quite a few white LEDs, is there anything special here or just a preference matter? the ratio is: 13 - Royal Blue 10 - Blue 4 - Red 4 - Green 8 - XM-L Neutral White 4 - True Violet
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05/06/2012, 08:09 AM | #6 |
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I will be following along as I am getting ready to a 120g 6' long tank, although not near as impressive as yours. I have been going through the same threads as you mentioned and also feel a little confused with the flood of info out there on DIY LEDs.
I planned on using the LM3409HV driver based on terhaz's design located here http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...0#post19781750. I currently trying to figure out my DIY controller so I can run the lights. Have you thought about using aluminum U channel as your heatsinks? I am leaning towards the U channel as it is way cheaper and there are several others running them without fans. What are your thoughts? |
05/06/2012, 08:44 AM | #7 |
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ohh yeah, i'm confused too.
I'd like to use the LM3409HV limited to 48v, it is seems it's the better shot for large and complicated LED arrays as DWZM stated here http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...postcount=2245. but I have no idea where to start. if you gonna to give it a try maybe we can do a group by but I have to say that i don't know the component list, where to buy them, how to weld each component in the board... may we can help each other, you do list all components, LM3409HV board, arduino, for both projects and I pay it all, sounds good uh? whithout fans? really? can you share the link address? I need to learn more about this subject 'cause the only thing I did was get into heatsink usa site e choose a heat sink who looks like the AI.
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05/06/2012, 10:30 AM | #8 |
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I would be interested in a group buy and working together once we get all the details figured out. I am hoping to order the controller parts in the next couple of weeks and getting that built then moving on to the leds. I wasn’t clear if you were using a controller or building your own, what are you doing?
At the bottom of this post http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...postcount=2193 is a link to the BOM and board design. I was getting ready to order some boards some seedstudio, you have to buy in quantities of 10. But wanted to get controller done first. I am planning on 8 different colors (white, RB 450nm, RB 465nm, blue, green, red, red/orange, UV) with each being dimmable so I will be using 8 boards and may use the other 2 boards for the sump and put some frags in the sump. For the controller I am leaning towards using the hydra-reef described here http://hydra-reef.com/wiki/Home. I did quite a bit of reading on using U channel on RC. I tried to find some of posts I read in the past but I was not finding them. Here is a thread that people describe their LED build…post 16 terahz details his build and is not using a fan. But if you start searching you will find lots of info on not using a fan with a few stipulations. The obvious big one is that you have to have adequate ventilation. I have hood on my tank that is open on top so that should fine for convection cooling. Also it is going to depend on how close you put your leds. There was a post where they tested using an aluminum plate with no fins and no fans and if I remember correctly if spaced the leds 3” apart convection cooling was enough. |
05/06/2012, 06:52 PM | #9 | ||
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I'd like to build my own controller (hope be able to do that ). Quote:
ok, so I'm following you on that and we're taking the terahz's LM3409HV route. step by step: 1) access that link (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...postcount=2193) to the last revision of the LM3409HV based driver 2) overthere get into the link to the project files where you'll find the following files: LICENSE.tx - no comments 3) inside de BOM file ( Parts.List.xls ) there is a link to the Mouser Eletronics website where it's possible to get a quotation on (and buy) all components needed by the LM3409HV driver board 4) Save all files in a common place inside your home directory [ directory where LM3409.v06.brd is ] 5) the board itself can be ordered on a PCB prototyping service - http://www.iteadstudio.com , http://www.seeedstudio.com - 10 boards at minimum at the price of USD 10 ($1 each)
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05/06/2012, 06:59 PM | #10 |
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6) on http://www.seeedstudio.com > Services (bottom left side menu) > Fusion PCB Service > Product Options:
Qty. : 10 (minumum)7) after you've placed a P.O. of the board to SeeedStudio, you have to send the board layout to this guys by email but pay attention on this 'cause the guys at SeeedStudio does NOT accept .brd files so you CAN NOT send the LM3409.v06.brd to them before you have to make some 'preparation':
8) after that you can pack (zip/rar) all the following files and name this file as D[ORDER_NUMBER]_[PCBSIZE (in this case 5x5)].zip LM3409.v06.GTL - (top layer) after placed a order to SeeedStudio you'll receive a confirmation email with the order number, so you have to: reply this email: - in the subject place: D[ORDER_NUMBER]_[PCBSIZE (in this case 5x5)]and wait...
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05/06/2012, 07:02 PM | #11 | |
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05/06/2012, 07:36 PM | #12 |
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So did you order the LM3409HV boards already or are you just describing on how to convert the brd file to their acceptable format?
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05/06/2012, 07:39 PM | #13 | ||
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05/06/2012, 07:52 PM | #14 | |
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- as you i'm going to make 8 LED array colors, do we need just 8 drivers? can a driver control 50 LEDs (cree cool white xp-g)? - what about the power supply for this driver version? thinking about ordering the drivers this week, what do you think?
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05/06/2012, 08:06 PM | #15 | |||
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05/06/2012, 09:52 PM | #16 | |
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let's see if we are in the same page [CONTROLLER: Hydra or Arduino] > [ DRIVER: LM3409 board ] > [ LEDs ] by controller you meaning hydra or arduino 'layer', right? if you take the hydra route it'll be necessary to place an order in a PCB service the same as driver, you can buy they both together I guess. i'm leaning toward to use the arduino board as a controller just because it is 'simple' and spend my energy on driver matters (i think it will be very hard). a question just occurs right now: can I use just one controller to control all the drivers or it is mandatory using one controller to one driver? thank you for helping me! btw, all PCB services (seeedstudio, iteadstudio and batchpcb) only accept Gerber files not the .brd... so be prepared to install:
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05/07/2012, 06:15 AM | #17 | |||
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I was originally going the arduino route as well but the hydra is fairly well documented which steered me to lean towards the hydra. It seems like the arduino would be able to handle anything you wanted to do, I need to do a little more research on the differences between the two. Hopefully someone will chime in and be able to provide some details on arduino vs hyrda. Even though they are both based on the arduino code. Quote:
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05/07/2012, 07:38 AM | #18 | |
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In this context, a normal Arduino (328p) with no other hardware can produce 6 PWM signals, so in effect you have 6 "channels" of control. Assuming your driver of choice is fine with a 5v pwm signal, you need no interface hardware. Assuming there are no strange complications, and the driver's current pull on the 5v channel is low enough, you can probably fit more of the drivers on a given channel than you could possibly want.
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Inconveniencing marine life since 1992 "It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman) |
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05/07/2012, 09:42 AM | #19 | |
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05/07/2012, 10:14 AM | #20 |
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Hi guys,
I'm actually abroad so I'll not be very active, but from skimming the thread I have a few things to point out. The latest version of the board is here: https://github.com/TeraHz/I2C-LED-Driver The driver doesn't required PWM pins. The drivers are on the I2C bus. HOWEVER, because the DAC on the driver can have only 8 unique addresses you can have up to 8 drivers per controller without additional hardware (it uses 2 data pins from the controller). That being said, there are ways to chain up to 56 drivers on one i2c bus using a single chip like the MAX4572. I've specified all that in the Limitations paragraph under Hardware at the address above. As for power supply, that would be largely determined by the components you select. I see you're considering my BOM which is for 48V. In that case, that would be the power supply voltage. Try to keep the LED array voltage within 10 volts under the power supply. It will make the driver work less and better. The current requirement, again, depends on the component selection and how many boards you want to power by a single power supply. If, for example, you plan to run 1A per driver and power all 8 drivers with one power supply, I'd use at least a 10A power supply. Good luck, and sorry if I don't respond right away.
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Аз съм българче! Current Tank Info: DIY 40 Breeder with LEDs |
05/07/2012, 12:10 PM | #21 |
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DWMZ / TeraHZ,
thank you guys for helping us on this! one more thing (last thing?) gimme your honest opinion here, i'm try to do: a) six modules fixture, each one with 40 LEDs - each color Dimmable - modules don't "talk" each other ratio of: 14 WHT (cool or neural?) + 14 BL (8 BL + 6 RB) + 4 RED + 4 GRN + 4UV or b) just "one" module fixture, total of 240 LED - each color Dimmable - modules "talk" each other ratio of: 84 WHT (cool or neural?) + 84 BL (52 BL + 32 RB) + 24 RED + 24 GRN + 24UV What is the best option? based on your choice, what route should I take? CAT4101 LED driver (how many per module) or LM3409HV Arduino (how many per drive) or Hydra power supply? i tried to make some math on power supply (700mA for XPE, 1050mA for XPG) but didn't get it. got some information on the LEDs i'm planning to use but don't know how to use them: these two must runnning @ 700mA, right? Cree XT-E Royal Blue 3.5V Cree XP-E Blue 3.5V this one must runnning @ 1050mA? Cree XP-G R5 Cool White 3.v a just got this information about this three: Osram 3W Red LED 2.15V @400mA Violet UV 3W LED 3.5V @ 700mA XP-E Green 3W LED 3.8V @ 1000mA should I run all @700mA? it seems there's a word caution with parallel string of LEDs, right? so i'm intend run them in series - what do you think? as you guys know, I knwo nothing about this and will strictly follow your directions. thanks a lot!
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05/09/2012, 08:44 PM | #22 |
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05/13/2012, 11:51 AM | #23 |
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Sorry for the delay in the answer.... been offshore. Currently I am ramping up over an hour from 15% to 85%. I turned the intensity down some. I start the royal blues ramping 2 hours before and 2 hours after daylights. I have 2 rb's on each heat sink on a different driver and use those for moon lights...they turn off at midnight and back on at 5am. I do have a good bit of whites...and the stronger whites at that. I ended up adding more rb to help with that and cut down the intensity. Still waiting for all the sps to get used to them. Most of the color came back, just haven't seen any new growth yet.... Like I said, everything that comes from mh's or t5's go thru a brown phase. I hate it, but it is what it is...
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05/13/2012, 06:10 PM | #24 | |
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The separate heat sink clusters also gives you a chance for some extra planning. Experiment with one heatsink and order a butt ton of LED's and find out what you like best. Then you can just take this design and scale it to fit your tank. While you can do a ton of research to find what other people like, there's still that possibility it might not fit your taste when you see it in person. So experimenting with one gives you that chance to find out what fits your personal taste. As far as the LED specs, many people seem to be satisfied with their light output using optics and don't see a need to run their LED's at their max rated capabilities to prevent bleaching or extending their LED life. I on on the other hand don't use optics and have my drivers set so that with my potentiometer turned to the max, that my LED's are using their max current. So right now I have my XPG's set to use 1.5A if i choose to, and my XPE RB's at 1A. I would set my whites to max but I don't have enough royal blues to offset the powerful whites. |
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