Cryptocaryon Irritans - tank transfer method

[zeebies]

Originally Posted by joecc

Sorry if this has been covered already, but should I use a new air-stone and new tubing with each transfer or will fully submerging and rinsing the previously used ones is bleach solution be sufficient for avoiding cross contamination? I assume the tubing at least, should be fine

Always best to do new. Cheap insurance. Peace of mind.

[Soluent1]

I have a 150 gallon tank that I was stocking with fish. It was fully cycled. I added some clown gobies and, shortly thereafter, noticed ick on one of them. I took out all fish. I borrowed four 10 gallon tanks from my friendly lfs and started doing doing the tank transfers. After 12 days, I placed them in a 30 gallon tank I set up for quarantine. I saw that the small yellow clown goby had either ick or something else. Skin had white on it with raised flakes. I assume it is not one of the diseases that takes fish very rapidly, e.g. Brook. I immediately started TTM again, drained the quarantine, let it dry for a few days, and added salt water again.

I always used aged (24 hours) fresh saltwater. Tanks and pvc elbows were dried with paper towels and left dry for at least 24 hours, usually 48. New air tubing and air stones were used with every transfer. I am now using five gallon buckets, as I think they are easier to handle and dry. I have a leopard wrasse and have placed a new bowl of new sand in each transfer. He is by himself in a bucket. I remove the bowl before the leopard settles in for the night and do the transfers in the evening as that is most reliable for me to be around. All my fish are three inches or less.

I am not unfamiliar with sterile technique and can't think of where I went wrong the first time. I transferred at exactly the same time each day. I am breathless with anticipation to see if the yellow clown still appears diseased. I think I will not immediately transfer it into the quarantine tank after TTM. I will put into some glass container to take a good look at it before placing it in quarantine tank with the others.

Any thoughts at where I may have gone wrong?

Since I am starting up essentially a new quarantine tank, any suggestions?
It has a biowheel filtration in it (I know not the best, but it is what I have) and a skimmer. Additionally, I will put a mp10 in it and some starter bacteria. Some bioballs maybe....old school, I know. Comments, criticisms?

Will post picture of clown goby if still appeare diseased. If I can figure out how.

To complicate matters, 75 days fallow would be Valentine's Day. Well, I saw a magnifica anemone that looked healthy and I bit. This puts me at about March10th. This particular lfs has been around for at least 30 years and is as trustworthy as any in the area. The tank is anemone and clown fish only and has been so for some time. Clearly, there is no copper. I intend to ask if it shares water with any other tank. Assuming it doesn't, would this be considered low risk for ich. Most of the clowns here come from a local breeder that has a rather large one-way setup.

Also, how do I quarantine a mandarin? How do I feed it?

I know this is a lot of questions and I do appreciate any answers.

[pfan151]

Originally Posted by Soluent1

I have a 150 gallon tank that I was stocking with fish. It was fully cycled. I added some clown gobies and, shortly thereafter, noticed ick on one of them. I took out all fish. I borrowed four 10 gallon tanks from my friendly lfs and started doing doing the tank transfers. After 12 days, I placed them in a 30 gallon tank I set up for quarantine. I saw that the small yellow clown goby had either ick or something else. Skin had white on it with raised flakes. I assume it is not one of the diseases that takes fish very rapidly, e.g. Brook. I immediately started TTM again, drained the quarantine, let it dry for a few days, and added salt water again.

I always used aged (24 hours) fresh saltwater. Tanks and pvc elbows were dried with paper towels and left dry for at least 24 hours, usually 48. New air tubing and air stones were used with every transfer. I am now using five gallon buckets, as I think they are easier to handle and dry. I have a leopard wrasse and have placed a new bowl of new sand in each transfer. He is by himself in a bucket. I remove the bowl before the leopard settles in for the night and do the transfers in the evening as that is most reliable for me to be around. All my fish are three inches or less.

I am not unfamiliar with sterile technique and can't think of where I went wrong the first time. I transferred at exactly the same time each day. I am breathless with anticipation to see if the yellow clown still appears diseased. I think I will not immediately transfer it into the quarantine tank after TTM. I will put into some glass container to take a good look at it before placing it in quarantine tank with the others.

Any thoughts at where I may have gone wrong?

Since I am starting up essentially a new quarantine tank, any suggestions?
It has a biowheel filtration in it (I know not the best, but it is what I have) and a skimmer. Additionally, I will put a mp10 in it and some starter bacteria. Some bioballs maybe....old school, I know. Comments, criticisms?

Will post picture of clown goby if still appeare diseased. If I can figure out how.

To complicate matters, 75 days fallow would be Valentine's Day. Well, I saw a magnifica anemone that looked healthy and I bit. This puts me at about March10th. This particular lfs has been around for at least 30 years and is as trustworthy as any in the area. The tank is anemone and clown fish only and has been so for some time. Clearly, there is no copper. I intend to ask if it shares water with any other tank. Assuming it doesn't, would this be considered low risk for ich. Most of the clowns here come from a local breeder that has a rather large one-way setup.

Also, how do I quarantine a mandarin? How do I feed it?

I know this is a lot of questions and I do appreciate any answers.

I wouldn't worry about adding the anemone as long as you don't add the rock it is currently on with it.

[Soluent1]

Originally Posted by pfan151

I wouldn't worry about adding the anemone as long as you don't add the rock it is currently on with it.

I didn't! Thanks for the response.

[Soluent1]

Bump.

[UncleSalt]

Okay - I have my own questions here!

Just ordered a new Regal Angel from LiveAquaria so I want to make sure I do this right. My DT appears to be pristine, so I don't want to risk anything.

He's going into a 5G bucket...

Do I use 100% CLEAN water with no biomedia/bacteria/anything?

I do want to add a few drops of Prime in there right?

I transfer every 4th morning, and then do Prazi after. Correct?

[pfan151]

Transfer every 72 hrs or earlier. I do every 48hrs so I don't have to worry about ammonia. You can use either fresh mixed salt water (I do) or your display water. Some may be against display tank water but I figure if ich is in the display the fish will ultimately be going into then you're out of luck anyway. I use fresh clams to get the regals eating and they foul the water up pretty quickly. That is why I like 48hr transfers.

[UncleSalt]

Originally Posted by pfan151

Transfer every 72 hrs or earlier. I do every 48hrs so I don't have to worry about ammonia. You can use either fresh mixed salt water (I do) or your display water. Some may be against display tank water but I figure if ich is in the display the fish will ultimately be going into then you're out of luck anyway. I use fresh clams to get the regals eating and they foul the water up pretty quickly. That is why I like 48hr transfers.

so again - freshly made salt water (mixed 24 hours) with absolutely no good bacteria in it - is how it's supposed to be done correct? I don't want to kill the little guy!

Also, with Prazipro, do it after Transfer 2 and 4.....do I just leave PP in the bucket the whole time until the next transfer?

[pfan151]

Yea, no bacteria in the water. You are changing the water before ammonia can build up. Some add prime on the second day if going the full 72 hours between transfers


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[EddieJ]

Originally Posted by UncleSalt

so again - freshly made salt water (mixed 24 hours) with absolutely no good bacteria in it - is how it's supposed to be done correct? I don't want to kill the little guy!

Also, with Prazipro, do it after Transfer 2 and 4.....do I just leave PP in the bucket the whole time until the next transfer?

I prefer a couple of 10 gallon tanks, they are cheap , over a 5 gallon bucket as you can see the fish much better .. fresh saltwater mixed 12 hours and have an air stone going in it. start at like 26-28 PPT for your salinity.. So much better for fish when they arrive. Remember fish are relived, not stressed when you put them in lower salinity. Temperature match the tanks for the transfers. Remember you can't use prime with prazipro.. check the salinity of the water in the bag when the fish arrives , and make sure yours is lower..float by till temp matches and Release him into tank..

[UncleSalt]

Originally Posted by pfan151

Yea, no bacteria in the water. You are changing the water before ammonia can build up. Some add prime on the second day if going the full 72 hours between transfers


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Originally Posted by EddieJ

I prefer a couple of 10 gallon tanks, they are cheap , over a 5 gallon bucket as you can see the fish much better .. fresh saltwater mixed 12 hours and have an air stone going in it. start at like 26-28 PPT for your salinity.. So much better for fish when they arrive. Remember fish are relived, not stressed when you put them in lower salinity. Temperature match the tanks for the transfers. Remember you can't use prime with prazipro.. check the salinity of the water in the bag when the fish arrives , and make sure yours is lower..float by till temp matches and Release him into tank..

Awesome! Thank you both! I have a 20g long i'll likely use - as well as a 29tall, may just use both of those to be safe.

[EddieJ]

Originally Posted by UncleSalt

Awesome! Thank you both! I have a 20g long i'll likely use - as well as a 29tall, may just use both of those to be safe.

More volume = less change for ammonia build up as well. The way I do it is I do the 4 tank transfers, then 2 weeks in the final QT tank. This way I can do prazi when they hit the final QT tank, so I dose prazi and then large water change after 48 hours.. wait the 5-6 days and dose Prazi again. So if you have your fish in the QT process for 30 days or so, that gives it time in case there are other diseases / parasites that will show their ugly face. Also, I slowly raise the salinity over the 2 weeks in the final QT to match display.


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[ncaldwell]

I've done a purple tang, achilles tang, and currently a marine betta using 5 gallon buckets with some pipe in the bottom. All separately of course but I've had no problems with ammonia build up waiting the 72 hours. Much easier than dealing with larger aquariums. Especially considering you have to clean them out every couple days. Remember the more difficult something is the less likely you are to do it on time. But after doing 10 fish the achilles is still clear of ich so I figure if the achilles is good then this really does work well

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[EddieJ]

Originally Posted by ncaldwell

I've done a purple tang, achilles tang, and currently a marine betta using 5 gallon buckets with some pipe in the bottom. All separately of course but I've had no problems with ammonia build up waiting the 72 hours. Much easier than dealing with larger aquariums. Especially considering you have to clean them out every couple days. Remember the more difficult something is the less likely you are to do it on time. But after doing 10 fish the achilles is still clear of ich so I figure if the achilles is good then this really does work well

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Cleaning is really easy, I just spray everything down with a 10 percent bleach solution, rinse , drain and let dry for 24 hours.. throw away airstone and tubing.. the 24 hour dry (completely dry) is the magic bullet.. that kills all.. very simple .. I definitely agree make it as easy as possible..


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[UncleSalt]

Please confirm for me here as my Regal has arrived!



Day 1 (March 1): fish entered tank A at 4pm
Day 2 Add Prime
Day 3
Day 4 (March 4): transfer fish to tank B at 630am (I leave for work at 7am)
Day 5 Add Prime + Prazipro
Day 6
Day 7 (March 8): transfer fish to tank A at 630am
Day 8 Add Prime
Day 9
Day 10 (March 12): transfer fish to tank B at 630am
Day 11 Add Prime + Prazipro
Day 12 (March 14): transfer fish to QT at 5pm

[EddieJ]

Originally Posted by UncleSalt

Please confirm for me here as my Regal has arrived!







Day 1 (March 1): fish entered tank A at 4pm

Day 2 Add Prime

Day 3

Day 4 (March 4): transfer fish to tank B at 630am (I leave for work at 7am)

Day 5 Add Prime + Prazipro

Day 6

Day 7 (March 8): transfer fish to tank A at 630am

Day 8 Add Prime

Day 9

Day 10 (March 12): transfer fish to tank B at 630am

Day 11 Add Prime + Prazipro

Day 12 (March 14): transfer fish to QT at 5pm

Sounds like a solid plan... what salinity was the water the fish was shipped ?


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[UncleSalt]

Originally Posted by EddieJ

Sounds like a solid plan... what salinity was the water the fish was shipped ?


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Water was shipped to me at 1.023

[UncleSalt]

Just to confirm, I can use Prime with Prazipro?

[EddieJ]

Originally Posted by UncleSalt

Just to confirm, I can use Prime with Prazipro?

Somehow a neuron in my brain recalled that you can't, but after researching it I believe you can. Must have mixed that info up with copper, which can't be used with Prime. Myself I do Prazi in the QT tank which they will stay for two weeks after the TTM. I just read an article detailing how biofilm can totally reduce the effectiveness of Prazi, and that if you keep an established QT, that each time you dose Prazi the bacteria will eliminate the Prazi even within a few hours. So it really sound like Prazi during the TTM with fresh water/tank is the way to go.


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[tmz]

Originally Posted by UncleSalt

Okay - I have my own questions here!

Just ordered a new Regal Angel from LiveAquaria so I want to make sure I do this right. My DT appears to be pristine, so I don't want to risk anything.

He's going into a 5G bucket...

A bit small: I usually use two ten gallon tanks for the process.

Do I use 100% CLEAN water with no biomedia/bacteria/anything?

Newly mixed salt water allowed to mix for a few hours preferably overnight . Using old water brings in organics without the bacteria to reduce any ammonia that forms from them since the bacteria live on surface.

Cycled media from a non infested tank is fine

I do want to add a few drops of Prime in there right?

Might not need it ; I almost never do; not bad as a precauiton though. it takes a bit of time for ammonia to form and you may not see any in 72 hours.

I transfer every 4th morning, and then do Prazi after. Correct?

Transfer every 72 hours; this interval over 4 transfers syncs wtih the parasite's life cycle to ensure none are transferred in the fish. Longer or shorter intervals are less effective.

[pfan151]

Why would intervals shorter than 72 hours be less effective?

[tmz]

It increases the probability of transferring a parasite in the trophont stage which typically stay in the fish for 3 to seven days and forming tomonts (cysts ) when they leave which typically " hatch" (releasing theronts to reinfect the fish) within 3 to 28 days with some taking as long as 72 days.

The proven method is three day intervals . If you wish you could chart out the expected times for each of the 3 life stages and lay it out against the transfer intervals . Just search crpto caryon irratans ;you'll find plenty pf research and information.

The objective of it all is to leave all the crytocaryon irritans in all phases behind via the tank transfer method.

[pfan151]

Originally Posted by tmz

It increases the probability of transferring a parasite in the trophont stage which typically stay in the fish for 3 to seven days and forming tomonts (cysts ) when they leave which typically " hatch" (releasing theronts to reinfect the fish) within 3 to 28 days with some taking as long as 72 days.

The proven method is three day intervals . If you wish you could chart out the expected times for each of the 3 life stages and lay it out against the transfer intervals . Just search crpto caryon irratans ;you'll find plenty pf research and information.

The objective of it all is to leave all the crytocaryon irritans in all phases behind via the tank transfer method.

I understand about the 3 up to 72 days to hatch, but in not sure how transfering every 48 hrs could make it more likely for them to be reinfected. Even if the parasite dropped off the fish the second it was placed in a new tank the fish would be out of there before the 72 hour mark.

[EddieJ]

Originally Posted by pfan151

I understand about the 3 up to 72 days to hatch, but in not sure how transfering every 48 hrs could make it more likely for them to be reinfected. Even if the parasite dropped off the fish the second it was placed in a new tank the fish would be out of there before the 72 hour mark.

I would think transfers every 2 days works to, just make sure it's still 12 days (which means 6 transfers). The main key is NEVER more than 72 hours between transfers. But you need to make sure Everything is DRY for at least 24 hours, more is better.,so every two days makes that a little tighter.


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[tmz]

I agree 12 days is the duration required.

Further, why do 6 transfers when 4 is sufficient? Each transfer carries some risk to the fish ,extra work , the possibility of adding a theront or tomont during transfers and less time for drying and settling newly mixed salt water and temperature if only two tanks are being used .