|
07/03/2018, 10:26 PM | #1 |
Registered Member
|
Vodka dosing for dummies please
Everything I have read about carbon dosing has sounded like a bit of voodoo science to me but I find myself with 60PPM nitrate and immeasurable PO4 (salifert)
2 methods I can use: 1) I mix 10 gal of saturated lime-water about once a week, I could add to that. 2) Have a BRS 1.1 ml dosing pump I can control with APEX. What are the basics? how long can I expect to start seeing improvements? target is 5-10 PPM
__________________
Originally posted by yellowslayer13: "I hate that hole" Current Tank Info: SCMAS Member 225 peninsula euroreef RS180 Apex 400W X 3 20k radiums / Spectra mixed SPS |
07/03/2018, 10:35 PM | #2 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: OC California
Posts: 485
|
Vodka dosing for dummies please
Mark,
The best thing you can do is dosing phosphate. You will be surprised how fast your nitrate will drop. Flourish Phosphorus from Seachem. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
07/03/2018, 10:49 PM | #3 |
Registered Member
|
Thanks Omid
I was just chatting with Randy Holmes-Farley and it occurred to me that might help but we work sooo hard to keep phosphates out of the tank that I don't know if I can bring myself to add it LOL
__________________
Originally posted by yellowslayer13: "I hate that hole" Current Tank Info: SCMAS Member 225 peninsula euroreef RS180 Apex 400W X 3 20k radiums / Spectra mixed SPS |
07/03/2018, 10:56 PM | #4 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: OC California
Posts: 485
|
Sure Mark,
You can bring over your water sample when you are going to pick up the frag, I have ULR phosphate test. Have zero phosphate is way more dangerous than high nitrate in my opinion. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
07/03/2018, 11:34 PM | #5 |
R.C. Fraternity President
|
I dosed vodka for years and the only downside was it can quickly strip N and P from your tank, leaving your water crystal clear (which can also lead to burnt tips). With that said I followed this article from reefkeeping magazine. It's a fail safe approach to initiating the process. You have to start off low and build it up over time. If you don't you can promote a rapid bacteria bloom that will cloud the water and possibly add a thick sludge on surfaces.
These days it seems that vodka dosing was a fad that stripped the tank of too much nutrients, finding that healthy balance may take some time. and I'm with you, I have read many times over that people are concerned that there tanks are too clean and start dosing N and P back to the tank.... that still boggles the mind. With that said, vodka dosing is just another tool we have in our tool bag to combat against high nutrients. My latest build I went with siporax to control N and P, but if it starts to get out of control, I wont hesitate to start vodka dosing.
__________________
Jimmy MASVC President Dishes are done man! Current Tank Info: 300 in progress |
07/05/2018, 12:44 AM | #6 |
Registered Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 1,186
|
Missing the boat a bit, I think. Vodka (like standard bio pellets) is a carbon source to dose when nitrate is the limiting factor for phosphate removal. If your phosphate really is low, you have the opposite problem. Vodka will make it worse. Agree that dosing phosphate is likely the cure. Are you [over]using GFO? If so, completely removing GFO is likely the most stable fix. The goal is not simply to remove p. it is to strike a stable (and low but not immeasurable) balance between n and p. Also reliable PO4 measurement is difficult. I really like the reliability of the Red Sea pro kit for low level phosphate and nitrate both. You won't need the latter for a while, but the former may be helpful.
__________________
Steve ---------------------------------- Current Tank Info: 2 separate 250G bowfront rimless ELOS tanks plumbed to 260G sump, 220G refugium, 220G frag, BK DeLuxe 300, 400W MH x4, closed loops, 3/4hp chiller x2, Phos reactor, Kalk reactor, Charcoal reactor, Ca reactor, 60G surge tanks, & a huge elec bill |
07/05/2018, 06:47 AM | #7 |
Registered Member
|
I haven't run GFO in months I think it's the food I'm using which is seafood mix from the Asian market blended and frozen in ice-cube trays
__________________
Originally posted by yellowslayer13: "I hate that hole" Current Tank Info: SCMAS Member 225 peninsula euroreef RS180 Apex 400W X 3 20k radiums / Spectra mixed SPS |
07/05/2018, 07:21 AM | #8 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Astoria, NYC
Posts: 10,159
|
That's an interesting issue to have, all nitrate no phosphate. Pretty uncommon.
As others have said or alluded to, the vodka fills in the carbon in the ratio of N-C-PO4 to promote bacterial growth that can be skimmed out. If you're still short of PO4, adding more C won't do you any good since you're limited by PO4. That being said, if you have algae growth, then it's also certainly possible that there is PO4, however tests aren't showing it, because it's being used up as it is released and taken up by the algae (I believe this is the case when people have huge algae issues and yet test low-to-no nitrates or phosphates, but I'm not a scientist, I just play one on the internet). If you do not have algae, I would consider it a blessing, and then either consider adding PO4, or I'd actually prefer to add a marinepure block or other nitrate-to-nitrogen area (remote DSB in a bucket) because I would rather not add the PO4 that could actually be limiting algae growth. The worst case is that you balance out the N-C-PO4 and the result is explosive algae. Let us know what you go with and how it turns out! |
07/05/2018, 12:44 PM | #9 |
Registered Member
|
I put marine pure blocks in 2 months ago I'm kinda at a loss here
I'm sure there's not "no PO4" in the tank, It's just being consumed as fast as it's available.
__________________
Originally posted by yellowslayer13: "I hate that hole" Current Tank Info: SCMAS Member 225 peninsula euroreef RS180 Apex 400W X 3 20k radiums / Spectra mixed SPS |
07/13/2018, 12:08 AM | #10 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Mesa Az
Posts: 771
|
Flake or pellet foods are a good source po4
__________________
Tank history 29g tropical ,55g cichlid tank, 20H softy reef, 29g mixed reef, 20H brackish goby & puffer tank, 55g mixed reef, 6g Nanocube softy lps reef, 40B sps reef, 75g sps reef, 75g sps reef in bu Current Tank Info: 75g sps reef build in the works. |
07/14/2018, 08:29 AM | #11 |
Registered Member
|
So, I’ve had to turn my cacl2 reactor off. Adding vingar to my kalkwasser has made it so much more soluble that my KH and Ca have risen to 11.2 and 460 respectively.
I started doseing once a week Po4 but I still read 0 after a few days. No3 has dropped to about 35ppm and the brownish reds in SPS are turning back to nice pinks and reds The skimmer is pulling constant nice gunk, beter tha before doseing carbon Filter sock loads up a lot more than before.
__________________
Originally posted by yellowslayer13: "I hate that hole" Current Tank Info: SCMAS Member 225 peninsula euroreef RS180 Apex 400W X 3 20k radiums / Spectra mixed SPS |
07/29/2018, 04:21 PM | #12 | |
Cloning Around
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Valencia, California
Posts: 25,267
|
Quote:
A couple months ago my readings were Nitrate 50+ and Phosphate 0, and all my stony corals were slowly dying. Since then, I have been adding a capful of Seachem Flourish Phosphorus every day. A capful is supposed to raise phosphate by 0.15 mg/l in 40 gallons of water. My tank has an overall volume of 112 gallons (but in reality is more likely around 90-95 gallons). So, after 2 months, my daily readings are Nitrate in the 30ish range (damn Red Sea pink color scale) and Phosphate in the 0.15 - 0.2 range (Hanna). I have a biopellet reactor and a nicely productive Vertex 180i skimmer. I have to clean my tank glass daily, but I have NO problem algae in the tank at all. My lights (Kessil AP700) are on for 12 hours and crest at 85%. I try to be a patient reefer, but I'm getting really, really tired of elevated nitrates. Kevin
__________________
Back in the pool, swimming with the sharks... Current Tank Info: Red Sea 425XL w/Kessil AP700, Vertex 180i Skimmer, 2 x Vortech MP40s |
|
07/29/2018, 08:11 PM | #13 |
Registered Member
|
I have used an entire bottle of flurish phosphorous in 3 weeks and been dosing 90ml vingar in my 10 gal of kalkwasser and in this heat lasts about 3 days. Po4 is still very low and nitrate is down to 20 ish. Problem I had was that alk and calcium spiked and even thought I shut down my cacl2 reactor 2 weeks ago I hit 10.8 and 480 on friday.
Just topping off with RO/DI till the number get normal again.
__________________
Originally posted by yellowslayer13: "I hate that hole" Current Tank Info: SCMAS Member 225 peninsula euroreef RS180 Apex 400W X 3 20k radiums / Spectra mixed SPS |
07/30/2018, 05:47 PM | #14 |
Dogmatic Dinosaur
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 6,256
|
I never had organic carbon dosing make any significant difference on PO4. It would on NO3, though. When you get to N of 10, I would back off... you do not want to strip everything too low.
|
10/01/2019, 07:18 AM | #15 |
Registered Member
|
I have come to the conclusion: Just use NoPox. It's worth the extra money to remove the guesswork
__________________
Originally posted by yellowslayer13: "I hate that hole" Current Tank Info: SCMAS Member 225 peninsula euroreef RS180 Apex 400W X 3 20k radiums / Spectra mixed SPS |
10/02/2019, 12:18 PM | #16 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 20,050
|
Quote:
Either of the "V's" works fine on its own and the charts are readily available on the internet for the amounts..
__________________
Who me? |
|
10/02/2019, 12:36 PM | #17 |
Registered Member
|
Except that it’s not
__________________
Originally posted by yellowslayer13: "I hate that hole" Current Tank Info: SCMAS Member 225 peninsula euroreef RS180 Apex 400W X 3 20k radiums / Spectra mixed SPS |
10/02/2019, 12:52 PM | #18 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 20,050
|
So what is it then?
Data I found shows it was analysed through NMR and found to be ethanol and acetic acid
__________________
Who me? Last edited by mcgyvr; 10/02/2019 at 01:06 PM. |
10/02/2019, 01:21 PM | #19 | |
Registered Member
|
Quote:
But the ethanol content is much higher than vodka which you can’t get by mixing vodka with vinegar. I prefer NoPox not only because RedSea has done the math for me, but unlike vodka and or vinegar, NoPox doesn’t seem to foster Cyanobacteria outbreaks.
__________________
Originally posted by yellowslayer13: "I hate that hole" Current Tank Info: SCMAS Member 225 peninsula euroreef RS180 Apex 400W X 3 20k radiums / Spectra mixed SPS |
|
10/02/2019, 03:19 PM | #20 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 20,050
|
Glad the "secret sauce" is working well for you. Ive seen plenty of reports of cyano when using nopox though...
It seems that when attempting to adjust nutrient levels with any method of carbon dosing cyano is always a possibiltiy.. Reports from all camps on that one..
__________________
Who me? |
10/02/2019, 09:24 PM | #21 |
Registered Member
|
__________________
Originally posted by yellowslayer13: "I hate that hole" Current Tank Info: SCMAS Member 225 peninsula euroreef RS180 Apex 400W X 3 20k radiums / Spectra mixed SPS |
10/09/2019, 09:09 AM | #22 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 4,143
|
Quote:
|
|
10/09/2019, 09:55 AM | #23 | |
Registered Member
|
Quote:
__________________
Originally posted by yellowslayer13: "I hate that hole" Current Tank Info: SCMAS Member 225 peninsula euroreef RS180 Apex 400W X 3 20k radiums / Spectra mixed SPS |
|
|
|