Water change automation

[eredder]

Originally Posted by thearsalan1

To make it more interesting, I’m looking into automating the mixing of the new saltwater as well. Haven’t really researched if this functionality comes prebuilt in a kit, but I’m looking into doing it myself with the use of a raspberry pi and some mechanism to pour the salt in the saltwater barrel and another ATO in the saltwater barrel once the level gets too low. Once this is accomplished, the only thing I’ll need to make sure of is that there is salt constantly available in the supply container. I’d love to hear ideas of someone already has this or has seen.


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I am interested in that as well. I am not sure how or what to use to meter out the salt.


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[eredder]

Originally Posted by sde1500

I would not use two pumps on a timer. You won't get accurate results. Especially not from a cheap aqualifter. To automate changes you need to take out and add the exact same amount. Persitaltic pumps are the way to go for this. I was looking into a litermeter, seems like a good set up, but went with a Stenner pump instead. I'll be installing it this weekend. Dual 50gpd heads on a single pump, will be plugged into a timer to run when I need it to.

Thanks, I read good things about the litermeters and Dos. I haven’t looked into Stenner pumps yet.


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[Tripod1404]

I would not worry about saltwater damaging pipes or septic tank. Average person uses 80-100 gallon water a day. For a house that means 200-300 gallons a day or more. Salt from 15 gallons of saltwater every week is negligible compared 200-300 gallon of water freshwater passing trough the pipes and septic system everyday.

For me i just have two sumps, one sump the water directly to drain and the other pumps new saltwater from a barrel to the tank. For me water changes are just turning on those pumps on and off and waiting. I dont use buckets unless I want to siphon something in DT.

[Feed Me Tacos]

Originally Posted by eredder

I think the part I would like to simplify would be the draining and mixing.

Can't help with the mixing but...

Your sump is in your basement. Is there a drain in there? I'm installing a tank right now. My tank is above my utility room in the basement, so I'm going to tie into the washing machine drain line for my tank drain.

I'm going to make a siphon hose with a candy cane end. it'll be calibrated for the amount of water I want to drain, so it'll lose suction and stop draining on its own. To fill back up, swap 2 valves and hit a local switch under my tank that will activate a pump in the basement to pump fresh salwater upstairs and into the tank.

I'm going to have one drain line and one fill line. They will come together for the siphon. I can pump water up through the siphon to fill it with water, then swap to the drain valve for it to start draining.

Should be about as hassle free as it gets, outside of the Triton method (though getting the chemicals is the hard part with that system).

Good luck!

[Sisterlimonpot]

Originally Posted by eredder

I did not know that saltwater would kill septic bacteria.

That's because it wont. A little research will go a long way.

[eredder]

Originally Posted by Sisterlimonpot

That's because it wont. A little research will go a long way.

Sounded odd to me too but I didn’t look into any further since I don’t have a septic tank. Thanks!

[Bent]

Mine is set up through apex

Pump is in the NSW tank, plumbed to the sump
Pump is in the sump plumbed to the mop sink

ATO pump turns off
Water pumps out of the sump for 20 sec which is around 2 gallons
Water pumps in from NSW container until the ATO switch is tripped.

There is a high level float that will shut the NSW pump off if tripped
There is a low level float that will shut the sump pump off if tripped
There is a low level switch in the NSW container that will stop the exchanges if tripped.


There is a thread on here “apex users I have programming questions” where BrettDS and a few others helped me get it done.

[Bent]

Originally Posted by eredder

I am interested in that as well. I am not sure how or what to use to meter out the salt.


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You could do it by making a hopper for the salt plumbed into the saltwater mix container with 2 or 3” pvc. Then use an electric solenoid and salinity probe with apex.

You’d have to do some mental gymnastics with the programming but I’m sure it could be done.

I’ve thought about using one of those big conical fermenters they have for beer brewing to do it with.

Edit:
Something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073W7MGL4..._RNY2AbEAP0TVB

[Sisterlimonpot]

Originally Posted by eredder

Sounded odd to me too but I didn’t look into any further since I don’t have a septic tank. Thanks!

I do too and extensively researched it before installing a water softener, as mentioned before the turn over rate for fresh water will prevent salt water levels from creeping up over time. However there are a lot of threads on this site that state otherwise. As far as bacteria in the septic there are a lot of good scientific publications that debunk the idea that salinity levels have to be a lot higher than what we throw at it to do any harm.

[Sisterlimonpot]

Originally Posted by Bent

Mine is set up through apex

Pump is in the NSW tank, plumbed to the sump
Pump is in the sump plumbed to the mop sink

ATO pump turns off
Water pumps out of the sump for 20 sec which is around 2 gallons
Water pumps in from NSW container until the ATO switch is tripped.

There is a high level float that will shut the NSW pump off if tripped
There is a low level float that will shut the sump pump off if tripped
There is a low level switch in the NSW container that will stop the exchanges if tripped.


There is a thread on here “apex users I have programming questions” where BrettDS and a few others helped me get it done.

I plan on doing this in the future so, I follow your thread, and it seems that you worked through your issues. 1 question about that, do you have the entire sequence happen right after the ATO topped off so that you know that what you removed is what you replaced?

My line of thinking and what concern me is if the tank has evaporated (lets say 0.5 gallons of) water and before your top off was called to replace that deficit with RODI water, the apex triggers the water change event and removes about 2 gallons it will then refill to the float switch about 2.5 gallons of salt water, the extra 0.5 gallons of saltwater will displace that 0.5 gallons which will slowly raise the salinity up over time.

point being that in my mind, this is what makes or breaks a good automated water change system, if you remove exactly 256 ounces of old salt water, you want to replace exactly 256 ounces of new salt water.

Originally Posted by Bent

You could do it by making a hopper for the salt plumbed into the saltwater mix container with 2 or 3” pvc. Then use an electric solenoid and salinity probe with apex.

You’d have to do some mental gymnastics with the programming but I’m sure it could be done.

I’ve thought about using one of those big conical fermenters they have for beer brewing to do it with.

Edit:
Something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073W7MGL4..._RNY2AbEAP0TVB

I like that hopper!! one thing to point out, if you're going to use an electric solenoid for salt water applications be sure that the the materials inside the solenoid that touch salter water are reef safe, ie stainless steel or better yet titanium. If you research these types of solenoids you'll quickly realize that the price jumps dramatically when it needs to be reef safe.

[Bent]

Originally Posted by Sisterlimonpot

I plan on doing this in the future so, I follow your thread, and it seems that you worked through your issues. 1 question about that, do you have the entire sequence happen right after the ATO topped off so that you know that what you removed is what you replaced?

My line of thinking and what concern me is if the tank has evaporated (lets say 0.5 gallons of) water and before your top off was called to replace that deficit with RODI water, the apex triggers the water change event and removes about 2 gallons it will then refill to the float switch about 2.5 gallons of salt water, the extra 0.5 gallons of saltwater will displace that 0.5 gallons which will slowly raise the salinity up over time.

point being that in my mind, this is what makes or breaks a good automated water change system, if you remove exactly 256 ounces of old salt water, you want to replace exactly 256 ounces of new salt water.



I like that hopper!! one thing to point out, if you're going to use an electric solenoid for salt water applications be sure that the the materials inside the solenoid that touch salter water are reef safe, ie stainless steel or better yet titanium. If you research these types of solenoids you'll quickly realize that the price jumps dramatically when it needs to be reef safe.

1: yes, it is set up so the ATO will top off the sump right before the water change happens.

2: you are never going to get exact within 30mls (which is 1oz) no matter what you use, unless you are doing this on a 5g tank it won’t make that much difference. Even with a standard ATO and no water changes, you will eventually see a salinity drift to some degree. So far my system has stayed steady with the new changes.

3: there are low pressure solenoids that use plastic valves.

[Sisterlimonpot]

Originally Posted by Bent

3: there are low pressure solenoids that use plastic valves.

Can you provide a link? The only ones I can think of that might work are ones used for sprinkler systems...

[Bent]

Originally Posted by Sisterlimonpot

Can you provide a link? The only ones I can think of that might work are ones used for sprinkler systems...

I’d have to look around. Yes generally they are for irrigation systems.

However, having said that. I’m not sure that dry salt oxidizes metal in the same fashion as a sodium solution. I remember doing a science experiment about this very thing decades ago. I sunk a nail in salt water and a nail in pure dry salt. The nail in the dry salt was fine...the one in the saltwater was not.

[Tikosyn]

I can vouch for the Genesis system, literally changed 15 gallons of water yesterday by pushing a button, can’t get any easier. I have the Genesis/storm automatic water change and ATO and I love it. But yes, it is pricey! Worth it IMO.

[Sisterlimonpot]

Originally Posted by Tikosyn

I can vouch for the Genesis system, literally changed 15 gallons of water yesterday by pushing a button, can’t get any easier. I have the Genesis/storm automatic water change and ATO and I love it. But yes, it is pricey! Worth it IMO.

Thanks Tikosyn, that was sort of my point, the genesis is second to none when purchasing a waterchange system, and it's because of their precise measurements.

As a DIYer, if I was to take on a project like that, I would tackle it from a more controlled environment other than a sump that has the water level fluctuation all the time to maintain accurate measurements. I would mimic the approach that genesis took, with my own twist of course. I have the idea in my head and most of the broad strokes worked out, I just need the time to lay it all out and do it..

[jh2pizza]

I use some triple Head Cole-Parmer pumps I picked up. I have it timed on my apex and it moves water from the new water to the display, from the display to the frag tank and from the frag tank to the drain. This uses 30' or so of tubing.



I currently use the more expensive tubing in them. Anyone know of a cheaper place to get the 1/4? tubing for less than the .65 per foot plus shipping?

[eredder]

Originally Posted by jh2pizza

I use some triple Head Cole-Parmer pumps I picked up. I have it timed on my apex and it moves water from the new water to the display, from the display to the frag tank and from the frag tank to the drain. This uses 30' or so of tubing.







I currently use the more expensive tubing in them. Anyone know of a cheaper place to get the 1/4? tubing for less than the .65 per foot plus shipping?

I will check out that pump. It looks like peristaltic pumps are the way to go. Thank you.