Reef Central Online Community

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > New to the Hobby
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 04/19/2018, 07:52 AM   #1
hammertime55
Registered Member
 
hammertime55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 31
Tang advice

So I've had my 75 up for about 2 months now and learning what NOT to do fast and expensively.

I have started with 5 blue damels and 5 green damels along with a lawnmower blennie and 7 peppermint shrimp. They seem to be all "getting along" so far.

I want to add a Tang to help control algea growth. The big question is will these damsels freak out and gang up on the new Tang? They are only juvies so I was hoping that the larger Tang would be ok.

Comments and reccomendations on specific Tang for this size tank? I read the list on the Tang thread so I have a good idea. There is alot of live rock BTW.


hammertime55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/19/2018, 07:55 AM   #2
hammertime55
Registered Member
 
hammertime55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 31
sorry, Damsels not Damels!


hammertime55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/19/2018, 08:01 AM   #3
mcgyvr
Registered Member
 
mcgyvr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 17,166
I will just about guarantee that a tang is not the solution to your algae problem..
I certainly would not suggesting getting one in response to it either..
They rarely make any dent in nuisance algae issues..

Do you measure nitrates and phosphates?
If so what are your current measurements?
What is your current water change schedule?
Have you determined what type of algae you are working with? Picture?


__________________
Being blunt and having fun
mcgyvr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04/19/2018, 08:03 AM   #4
nereefpat
Registered Member
 
nereefpat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Central Nebraska
Posts: 2,817
What species of damsels? Are they chromis? In general, it will be tough to keep 10 damsels living peacefully in a 75.

As for tangs for a 75:

There aren't too many. Most Ctenochaetus (bristletooth genus) tangs will be OK, except the chevron. They may not get along with your lawnmower blenny though.

The smaller Zebrasoma (sailfin genus) tangs like yellow, purple, and scopus aren't ideal for a 75, but will probably by ok if one is the only large resident of the tank.

Many snails are good algae eaters btw, especially the big Mexican turbo snails.


__________________
Pat

Current Tank Info: 125 in-wall , 40b sump. 6 bulb T5. ASM G2 skimmer. LPS and leathers
nereefpat is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04/19/2018, 08:03 AM   #5
kevin21
Registered Member
 
kevin21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 2,050
^^ That....Don't add a tang to a 75. Way too small.

If you can answer those questions, we can help you solve the problem. Could be weekly water changes as a fix, or a different way of solving your high nutrient problem.


__________________
Kevin

Current Tank Info: 28g JBJ nano. Kessil A-160WE. Tunze 9002 skimmer. Tunze ATO. Vortech MP10
kevin21 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04/19/2018, 08:08 AM   #6
thearsalan1
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 29
For your algae issue, lawnmower blenny has been proven to be the best fish imo.
As far as the fish fighting, it’s tough to say as each individual fish have different personalities. Some fish may fight in someone’s tank, but the same type of fish will be fine in another tank. It’s tough to predict who will fight and who won’t. Damsels are usually mean, but generally shouldn’t bother a tang much.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


thearsalan1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/19/2018, 09:25 AM   #7
hammertime55
Registered Member
 
hammertime55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 31
I do a 10% water change weekly. Nutrients are measured bi weekly. Nitrates are generally a bit above normal but not too bad. All others are in check. I attribute most of the algea problem to the nitrate level. I guess I'm feeding too much. That's going to be trail and error with 10 new fish in the tank. Suggestions with feeding quantity?

I am adding another waver runner to the tank today. I have some red algea on the sand. When I point the wave runner down towards the bottom is goes away, duh.

I have some green hair algea. Corraline algea also but I've read that is a good thing. So what I get from the advise I have gotten so far is maybe forgo the Tang for now. Maybe the Lawnmower will keep it in check. I don't have a massive growth, just trying to be proactive.

The Blue Damsels are Chrysiptera cyanea. The Green Damsels are Chromis viridis.


hammertime55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/19/2018, 09:35 AM   #8
mcgyvr
Registered Member
 
mcgyvr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 17,166
I'd bet the red is cyanobacteria not algae..

Also.. don't be afraid to post actual numbers (and please do).. We have all been there.. Posting "a bit above normal" is really just useless information... same with "all others are in check"..

If you want a tang as a fish.. fine.. make sure its one of the smaller varieties as your tank is at the lower limit for "tang happiness" but don't do it to solve an algae problem..
Just get those nutrients in check and see how that goes..

Snails as stated may be better suited to tackle the algae.. Or an urchin..


__________________
Being blunt and having fun
mcgyvr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04/19/2018, 09:50 AM   #9
kevin21
Registered Member
 
kevin21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 2,050
Tough to give advice on what you have said, but I suggest weekly water changes and only feed enough food that will be snatched up by fish in about 45 seconds time. Also make sure you dont have a lot of detritus build up around the tank. Blow rocks with turkey baster before water changes. It should help.


__________________
Kevin

Current Tank Info: 28g JBJ nano. Kessil A-160WE. Tunze 9002 skimmer. Tunze ATO. Vortech MP10
kevin21 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04/19/2018, 04:18 PM   #10
Uncle99
Crab Free Zone
 
Uncle99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,681
The green stuff goes when nitrates are consistently between 2-4ppm, phosphate is between .02-.04, the photoperiod is in the 8-9 hour range, the intensity is only what the corals need to feed and the water is RODI with a TDS much less than 5ppm.

Add good flow, carbon dose daily, scrub and pick off the rest.

With this I have no need for CUC

On point water = virtually no algae, should only have to clean the glass once per week, that will indicate the reduction is in gear....


Uncle99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/20/2018, 10:37 AM   #11
Sk8r
RC Mod
 
Sk8r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Spokane WA
Posts: 33,254
Blog Entries: 55
GFO is your best algae solution. In a reactor. Phosban is one brand.


__________________
Sk8r

Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low.

Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, 2 firefish, 2 chromis, royal gramma basslet, starry blenny, chestnut turbo snails, bristleworms, couple of hermits.
Sk8r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/20/2018, 11:25 AM   #12
mcgyvr
Registered Member
 
mcgyvr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 17,166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sk8r View Post
GFO is your best algae solution. In a reactor. Phosban is one brand.
I must have missed where they posted their elevated phosphate results....

IF the problem is excessive phosphates then GFO may be one solution..
Its not a blanket solution to a yet undefined problem..


__________________
Being blunt and having fun
mcgyvr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04/22/2018, 06:27 AM   #13
hammertime55
Registered Member
 
hammertime55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 31
Checked the nitrates and they are at 40 ppm. Going to do a 50% water change today. Hopefully that will get it down to 20 ppm. Any suggestions on getting it lower quickly?


hammertime55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/22/2018, 07:06 AM   #14
hammertime55
Registered Member
 
hammertime55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 31
Nitrates 40 ppm
Calc 340
Phosp 0.25
KH 161.1 ppm


hammertime55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/22/2018, 07:14 AM   #15
mcgyvr
Registered Member
 
mcgyvr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 17,166
water changes are your best/fastest solution..
You seem to clearly be overfeeding the tank from those numbers IMO...


__________________
Being blunt and having fun
mcgyvr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04/22/2018, 07:47 AM   #16
hammertime55
Registered Member
 
hammertime55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgyvr View Post
water changes are your best/fastest solution..
You seem to clearly be overfeeding the tank from those numbers IMO...
yeah it does seem to be the problem but to a novice how much is too much? I've read as much as they eat in under a minute. I think that is what I'm doing. There doesn't look like there is anything left and the Green Damsels act as though they are starving all the time!


hammertime55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/22/2018, 08:15 AM   #17
MuShu
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Georgia
Posts: 319
A lot of this is also part of the normal "breaking in" phase for tanks. It's known as the uglies and should go away in short order.

That said, I'm going to third the turbo snails and astrea snails as being the best algae eaters, especially for the nuisance algae.


MuShu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/22/2018, 08:37 AM   #18
on the spot
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: West Michigan
Posts: 924
Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime55 View Post
So I've had my 75 up for about 2 months...

I have started with 5 blue damels and 5 green damels along with a lawnmower blennie and 7 peppermint shrimp. They seem to be all "getting along" so far...
Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime55 View Post
Checked the nitrates and they are at 40 ppm...Any suggestions on getting it lower quickly?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgyvr View Post
water changes are your best/fastest solution..
You seem to clearly be overfeeding the tank from those numbers IMO...
as MCGYVR suggests your best route to nutrient control at the moment will be water changes.

IMO you should consider thinning your stock. To much of a good thing as they say.

I think I missed where you mentioned what other gear you are using to help clean the water - there are many ways to reach lower numbers.


on the spot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/22/2018, 08:42 AM   #19
Trigger Tough
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 69
You can also dose vodka or vinegar to bring those nitrates down. Randy Holmes Farley has some good articles on it along with dosing schedules

As far as adding a tang I’d go with a Yellow Eye Kole Tang or a Tomini Tang. I’ve had both at separate times in my 70 tank. I’d add them as the last fish in the tank if it’s going to be the biggest fish in there. Shouldn’t be a problem with the Blenny. Right now I have a Kole with a Starry Blenny in my tank and they’re both good with each other


Trigger Tough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/22/2018, 09:31 AM   #20
hammertime55
Registered Member
 
hammertime55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by on the spot View Post
as MCGYVR suggests your best route to nutrient control at the moment will be water changes.

IMO you should consider thinning your stock. To much of a good thing as they say.

I think I missed where you mentioned what other gear you are using to help clean the water - there are many ways to reach lower numbers.
I have a protein skimmer. I'm running 2 Jabeo SW-8 pumps, just added the second one this past week. I have them set on the wave 1 setting at the lowest speed.

Should I add a reactor with pellets? I've read where that helps. I don't really want to add a refgium because I don't want to add a light in the sump area. It's only a 4' space and I've already got alot of electrical running this setup on one circuit. But that is an option also.

As far as reducing the livestock. Seems to be doing that on it's on. So far 1 blue damsel and 1 green damsel died this past week and another Blue is staying in what we call coffin corner. (Bottom corner behind rocks) It is breathing heavily and not eating so I don't think it's going to be long before it's gone. So If he dies I will have 4 Greens and 2 Blues and a lawnmower bleenie, 7 peppermint shrimp. Have no idea on count on crabs and snails but at one time there where 20 snails and maybe 10 crabs. I have ordered 100 snails, they should be here in a couple days.

The end game here is to turn this into a reef. Obviously I have to get the chemistry right before jumping in. I have added 3 polyps so far and planted them in the sand bed. One of them is doing very well, 1 is doing ok, and 1 is probaly dead. They have been in the tank about 3 weeks or so.

Thanks everyone for the input, please keep it coming. I truely love this endeavor and take critism well.


hammertime55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/22/2018, 09:35 AM   #21
hammertime55
Registered Member
 
hammertime55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger Tough View Post
You can also dose vodka or vinegar to bring those nitrates down. Randy Holmes Farley has some good articles on it along with dosing schedules

As far as adding a tang I’d go with a Yellow Eye Kole Tang or a Tomini Tang. I’ve had both at separate times in my 70 tank. I’d add them as the last fish in the tank if it’s going to be the biggest fish in there. Shouldn’t be a problem with the Blenny. Right now I have a Kole with a Starry Blenny in my tank and they’re both good with each other
Those are the 2 Tangs I was considering. Once I get this thign dialed in correct I'm going to add 1 of those.


hammertime55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/22/2018, 10:32 AM   #22
devimik
Registered Member
 
devimik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: KC, KS
Posts: 624
I would caution against adding a tang with a Lawnmower Blenny. They both eat algae and compete for it. My experience, having done what you're contemplating, was that the Blenny got picked on by the Yellow Eyed Kole Tang. My Kole killed the Blenny, and my Diamond Goby. I know he killed them because they had slashes in their bodies and every time they tried to come out of hiding, the Tang would back up at them and slap them with its tail. He tried the same with my YWG, but he mostly stays in his cave/hole. I realize I had an oddly aggressive Kole Tang - ended up trading him for a Coral Beauty. Maybe your luck will be better.

I do agree that you aren't going to solve your hair algae problem with a Tang though. As others have said, water changes and cutting back on feeding are good ways to help.


__________________
Mike D

Coral Beauty, Green Filefish, One Spot Foxface, Springeri Dottyback, 2 Ocellaris Clowns, Yellow Watchman Goby, Flame Hawkfish, Spotted Mandarin

Current Tank Info: 90g Softie Reef, 150# live rock, 30g sump w/refugium, Tunze Osmolator 3155 ATO, Octopus NWB 150 Skimmer, Mag 950 return, Maxspect 120w Razor 10K LED light X2, BRS Phosphate Reactor; Apex Lite
devimik is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04/22/2018, 11:25 AM   #23
hammertime55
Registered Member
 
hammertime55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by devimik View Post
I would caution against adding a tang with a Lawnmower Blenny. They both eat algae and compete for it. My experience, having done what you're contemplating, was that the Blenny got picked on by the Yellow Eyed Kole Tang. My Kole killed the Blenny, and my Diamond Goby. I know he killed them because they had slashes in their bodies and every time they tried to come out of hiding, the Tang would back up at them and slap them with its tail. He tried the same with my YWG, but he mostly stays in his cave/hole. I realize I had an oddly aggressive Kole Tang - ended up trading him for a Coral Beauty. Maybe your luck will be better.

I do agree that you aren't going to solve your hair algae problem with a Tang though. As others have said, water changes and cutting back on feeding are good ways to help.
Dang, that's exactly what I don't want to happen. I have lost several fish already due to agressiveness from their own breed and others as well.


hammertime55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/22/2018, 11:30 AM   #24
devimik
Registered Member
 
devimik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: KC, KS
Posts: 624
Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime55 View Post
Dang, that's exactly what I don't want to happen. I have lost several fish already due to agressiveness from their own breed and others as well.
Of course, I can't say for sure that will happen and my experience is only one.


__________________
Mike D

Coral Beauty, Green Filefish, One Spot Foxface, Springeri Dottyback, 2 Ocellaris Clowns, Yellow Watchman Goby, Flame Hawkfish, Spotted Mandarin

Current Tank Info: 90g Softie Reef, 150# live rock, 30g sump w/refugium, Tunze Osmolator 3155 ATO, Octopus NWB 150 Skimmer, Mag 950 return, Maxspect 120w Razor 10K LED light X2, BRS Phosphate Reactor; Apex Lite
devimik is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04/22/2018, 11:43 AM   #25
Anemone
Cloning Around

 
Anemone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Valencia, California
Posts: 24,595
100 snails seems like overkill, IMO. In a 75 gallon tank, you're going to have a lot of dead snails, in relatively short order. Most will starve to death, especially if they are primarily turbos and astreas.

Kevin


__________________
Back in the pool, swimming with the sharks...

Current Tank Info: Red Sea 425XL w/Kessil AP700, Vertex 180i Skimmer, 2 x Vortech MP40s
Anemone is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:10 AM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2018 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2014
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.