My 125 build

[rad3dad]

My tank has a tempered bottom so I am planning on drilling several holes on both ends. I really have never drilled for a sump and have always used overflows. I want to keep the plumbing on both ends of the tank rather then being on the back wall or corners like manufactures do, being that it will be see through. I know the surface skimmers across the ends should be fine.

I am planning on having 4 return holes on both sides. 2 about 6 to 8 inches off the bottom, and 2 just below the skimmer boxes. I have made an alternating current device, similar to how a SCWD wave maker device alternates the return flow to opposite sides of the tank.

The issue I am worried about is a siphon on the return lines when a power outage occurs. I'm thinking of making a a 5th return line with a u-bend over the rim, and capping it off about an inch below the water line. Drilling a small hole in the end of the cap to break suction once the water drops below the hole.

Does this sound fail proof? Any other thoughts or issues I am missing? It would pretty much drain the tank if the siphon break holes failed.


................

On a side note, anyone close to springfield/decatur have a 1 3/4" and/or 2 3/8" glass hole saws i could use for 1" and 1 1/2" bulkheads? Also, anyone good with working with acrylic or a router, to make the skimmer boxes?

[mikedoyle]

I have 2 3/8 for 1 1/2 ill have to see if I can find it. I'm in decatur

[lcashman]

I'm not sure if that will work. You will have to break the siphon to prevent the water from draining the tank. I'm not sure that you will be able to break the siphon on the lower outputs in the tank. I know people have used check valves to help prevent draining the tank, but in most cases (from what I have read), that the check valve has to be maintained and has a high probability of not closing completely.

You might want to use a closed loop system with the outputs near the bottom of the tank. Then use the other outputs for the sump/rest of the system.

Do you have any picts of your alternating device?

[rad3dad]

Ya, your right icashman, after drawing this out on paper, I realized that the tank would drain to the sump do to gravity, regardless if there was a siphon or not. The closed loop will still do what I want, I'll just add another pump to the ever growing list of needs

[rad3dad]

Thanks for your input, I will try to describe the alternating current device soon. It's not fully assembled or even tested yet, but I have all the parts except an acrylic rod and uni seals, to hook the motor up to the internal rotating diverter. Its basically a bunch of modded pvc parts and a 3 rpm microwave turntable motor. The 3 rpm motor should switch full current every 10 seconds with a tapered on/off flow strength, from opposite sides of the tank, if it works properly. I will post a pic of the parts I used as soon as I get it completed.

[rad3dad]

Originally Posted by mikedoyle

I have 2 3/8 for 1 1/2 ill have to see if I can find it. I'm in decatur

Thanks Mikedoyle, let me know if you can find it.

After reconsidering my plumbing to incorporate a closed loop, I am planning on two 2" bulkheads on each end, slightly above the middle of the tank. I found a thread where they incorporated the intake and exhaust flow through the same hole/bulkhead. The 2 inch bulkheads require a 3" hole, so I will need a hole saw for those as well.



The thread also showed how the tank was built using the 4 corners of the tank as the overflow and return, hidden by the frame. Its a pretty interesting read. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...ht=closed+loop

[_shorty_]

Mike, sorry that I missed this thread before. But after yesterday wanted to look it up.

So plumbing wise, you know that I do something similar, but I currently do have a check valve involved that I plan to eliminate sooner than later. Instead I will just drill a hole above my water line in the overflow box that my inlet plumbing goes down through. I'm considering doing a rubber flapper check valve instead of the current spring, AND the hole as a safety.

Another consideration when doing this is the necessity to run your inlet plumbing above the water line of the tank before you come back down and then into the tank. Another consideration is the need to support and brace all plumbing somehow.

So, forgive me for my ignorance, but what exaclty is 'closed loop' system definition for a reef tank? From a technical standpoint I'd consider what Mike is initially describing as 'closed loop'.

I can't see external pics from here - so I'll check out your latest plans when I get home tonight.

[lcashman]

A closed loop system normally has suction port(s), return port(s), and a pump and it does not send water through the sump.

So a basic closed loop system would be something like this:
- pump plumbed right to the suction port(s)
- output of the pump might be plumbed to a wave making device (SQWD or something similar)
- after the wave making device, the outputs are plumbed right to the output ports on the tank

[_shorty_]

Ah!! thank you for that clarification. That makes sense. Hmmm.. I should make a couple of my unused ports 'closed loop' like that.

[_shorty_]

Originally Posted by _shorty_

Another consideration when doing this is the necessity to run your inlet plumbing above the water line of the tank before you come back down and then into the tank.

In considering this more - This part may have just be for my circumstances. I learned a lot through my experience plumbing this up - and would probably do some things a little differently from the start.

[rad3dad]

Originally Posted by _shorty_

In considering this more - This part may have just be for my circumstances. I learned a lot through my experience plumbing this up - and would probably do some things a little differently from the start.

Ya, I think as long as you have an internal overflow wall/surface strainer, like whats used in reef ready tanks, it will keep the waterline at the strainers lowest point, should the pump fail or be shut off. The result would be draining the overflow chamber until it drops below the overflow pipes intake.

I'm still pondering over how I will be doing this part of the plumbing. I was going to use a gl*******s.com system, but I think I can rig up something that would work better, be more quiet and be hidden. Plus two of there kits really add up. I've seen a few different posts about different styles of the return pipes, and need to look into them further, to see what would work best and be quiet, for a dual return system.

Anyone have any experience in pluming overflow pipes through the sides, rather then bottom. Or advice on what system is best for this application? The one I had looked into and was thinking of using didn't work well with dual returns, and I think having only one surface strainer on one end of the tank may not be ideal.

Still waiting on my holesaw to arrive, any day now, then I will be able to start putting things together, as long as the drilling goes smooth...

[_shorty_]

Have you checked out beananimals overflow? His goes through the back as apposed to sides - and he does have an overflow 'box' inside the tank - but it would not be quite as obvious/visible as the standard overflow wall in typical reef ready systems IMO.

again, supporting your plumbing is important.

http://www.beananimal.com/projects/s...ow-system.aspx

[rad3dad]

Yup, that's the style I originally was going to follow, but if I recall, there was an issue with running them on dual sides of the tank. To be honest it has been a while since I read up on them and may be wrong about that.

I'm actually having second thoughts of needing surface skimming on both ends of the tank. I have seen several successful peninsula tanks that only skim one end. Plus less holes to drill, another strainer to hide, more plumbing, ect...
Is the beananimal the type you used, or has anyone else used this style?

I will definitely be bracing the plumbing, I have seen some pretty clean braces cutting holes between the seam two boards, edge to edge, and securing both boards together to the stand.

[_shorty_]

I used the same concept - with the exception that mine go down through the floor of my little overflow box area. But I do have the full syphon (tuned with a valve) (lowest return below desired water level), a secondary 'durso' style (with a small air hole - second highest return where you want your water level), and the third backup open to air (above water level).

All three should technically be able to adapt as full syphon as water level rises to different points - hense the tube in his for the durso style.

mine is one ended - but I also wasn't concerned as much about the surface skimming without plans of running an actual skimmer (as of yet ). Ya - that might be challenging to do both. It MIGHT work to run your full syphon on one end, and the other two on the other side - but would probably require your overflow ledge on the full syphon side to be just a shade lower in order to make sure it remains filled. Then you'd close your full syphon valve JUST enough so that it doesn't handle all the flow.

* just a quick thought in addition - that flow over the durso side overflow wall would be pretty thin top layer - and might be good to try to feed straight to the skimmer some how ? I don't know if that would be worth the effort, but something to consider.

[rad3dad]

Are you happy with the BeanAnimal system. Any issues with it after its dialed in? I think I'm just going to keep it simple and skim the one end. I'm sure it will do the job sufficiently. I will have to do some test runs to determine whether all this is going to work as planed, before I really know .

I did get my glass bit today! 4 holes later, and some dry fitting of the closed loop ports. So far its going well, only a couple minor changes as I assembled the loop.




And this is the start of the future wall and tank placement, with a work area behind it to keep my equipment, sumps, and frag tanks.

[_shorty_]

looks good. Very interesting on the plumbing. I'd be interested to see what fittings and such that you used to accomplish that. And yes i do like the overflow - very easy to tune in. That part is probably one of the quieter parts of my system. I have other adjustments i should probably make to quiet the whole thing down.

[rad3dad]

Thanks man,
The bottom of the loop in the above pic has 1" street elbows going into a 1" to 1 1/4" slip adapter, into the T that is mounted to the bulkhead.

What you cant see is the 3/4 inch flex hose going through the bulkhead, bends down in the T and fits snug inside the 1" street elbow, sealing off that path.

So the 1" is the flow from the pump through the 3/4 flex in the bulkhead. The water pulled by the pump comes from gap around the 3/4 flex, through the bulkhead, and travels up through the T and then over and down back to the pump. I will get a shot of it disassembled before i get it glued, so you can get a better picture of what is used.

I'm not sure if the flex is going to be the material I end up using for the inlet, I was messing around with heating and bending pvc, and undergravel filter airlift tubes. I think the airlift tubes would be best if i can get a good bend. actually 4 good bends, lol

[rad3dad]

Well I kind of failed on a build thread for this tank, but I have been busy and it is coming along, slowly. Plans have changed so many times along the way, it will be easier to just recap the final results anyways, lol. Sorry for the wall of text, I have a lot of catching up on updates.

I have all the plumbing finished, and tested, except that I have relocated the pumps to the basement and plumbed through the floor. As long as there are no leaks in the added connections, it should be done.

It really was a challenge to squeeze the bean animal system and the closed loop inlet/return system on one end of the tank, but I was able to make it work after a few attempts.

I ended up using a coast to coast overflow strainer, along the entire length of the back of the tank, that feeds into a collection box mounted to the outside of one end of the tank, that the bean animal overflow system is mounted to. I do have to say I am impressed with the overflow system. It is easy to adjust and is silent, thanks BA!

After numerous attempts to get a good seal on my alternating current diverter for the closed loop. I finally got it working properly and I am very pleased with its operation during testing. I would say there are better and easier options out there, such as a s.c.w.d. or alternative, but it was a personal d.i.y. challenge that I could not leave alone. I'm so glad its done, it was really getting the best of me for a while and I was determined to make it work.

My sump is a 70 gal acrylic wet/dry converted and sectioned into its compartments. The full siphon compartment holds the pump that feeds the skimmer, then the excess overflows into a dark rubble chamber into the return chamber in the center. The opposite side is the lighted fuge section that will have a DSB and macro algae and is feed by the skimmer return and the durso style pipe of the BeanAnimal overflow. I plan to add a 100 gal stock tank in the basement plumbed into the system to help counter the heat generated by the halides.

The sump return T's off above the tank, with the main flow going back to the tank, and another line that feeds into a 6 in x 6 in x 4 ft "cheato river" refugium mounted above the tank that is plumbed down to the main tank, hopefully randomly seeding a good supply of pods for snacks between feedings and the removing of nitrates by harvesting the cheato.

I have the lighting system mounted on adjustable cables hung from the ceiling. I'm using the coralife system with 3 x 250w MH, 4 96w PC's, and 4 led moon lights. I will need to replace the bulbs once I am ready for corals, but that will be quite a while down the road.

I have finally began the fun part and have started creating some of the rock work formations. I have soaked, scrubbed, and dried out all of the liverock I will be using. Its a lot easier to build formations and work with this way. I will re-cure it while the tank goes through its cycles, and then seed it after perimeters become stable.

I will try and clean things up a little and get some pics of the current progress.

[_shorty_]

It all sounds great!
I was surprised and am very interested to see your chaeto channel. That's a cool idea. Similar to a chaeto algae scrubber that my uncle runs, except that his is multiple 18 or 24 inch compartments above DT, about 4" deep x 6" wide, each cascading down into the next, and then down into the DT. He just pulls handfuls of chaeto out for export every once in a while, but it serves him well, and he's been running that way for many years.

Looking forward to some pics!

[rad3dad]

I had seen the cheato river on another post a while back and thought it was a nice idea. I should have some time this weekend to get some pics to post.

[_shorty_]

Don't know if you've considered lighting for you chaeto river, or maybe your DT lights power it? But if not, consider red 660nm spectrum LED lighting with a few blues thrown in. That's what the algae scrubber peeps run, and Eric got an LED grow bulb for his chaeto and mentioned increase in growth rate.

[rad3dad]

Figured I would update this old thread. I took a long break away from this project, but have recently jumped back on it full swing. I tried uploading a few different pics, but was only able to get one to load. I will try again later to add more. As you can see its coming along. I did finally add saltwater to the system, after soaking in fresh for about 6 months. Finally time to start the cycle and get her up and running. The cabinet is far from done, but it wasn't even started a couple weeks ago.

[rad3dad]

First I couldn't get it to load, now I need to figure out how to resize it...sorry for the size.

[elmatth1]

That's really turning out good so far!

[rad3dad]

Thanks man, I'm getting closer, but there is so much more to do behind it in the fish room. Not sure If I will ever be done, lol.