Breaker tripped...dart pump not working

biecacka · 08/07/2018, 12:32 PM

Sometime last night my breaker tripped for some reason. I unplug everything and flip the switch back over and plug things back in, everything is back and working except my return pump. A dart. Any ideas on where to troubleshoot it?

Corey

NubbsJRN · 08/07/2018, 12:36 PM

Nor familiar with Dart. Are those magnetic drive?

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CSmooth2009 · 08/07/2018, 01:02 PM

Do you know the dart model??

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alton · 08/07/2018, 03:30 PM

Motors have a protection called "Locked Rotor". it can be a way to stop itself from burning up. NEC Table 430-251A. A 1/2 hp motor can draw up to 58.8 amps to trip the breaker and shut itself off.

Vinny Kreyling · 08/07/2018, 04:33 PM

First step is to see if you can turn the impeller.
If NOT you probably need bearings.

biecacka · 08/07/2018, 10:29 PM

I’ll check the model.
My plan is to take the pump offline and visually inspect everything and attempt to turn the impeller.

Alton, can you provide more information on “locked rotor”

Corey

alton · 08/08/2018, 05:11 AM

https://franklinaid.com/tag/locked-rotor-amps/
Like Vinny stated check the pump to see if it turns, or if something is blocking the rotor that may have caused this? Or your pump maybe spent and need rewinding.

zachfishman · 08/12/2018, 09:54 AM

Is the pump's drive shaft clean and free of rust? A lot of Reeflo pumps develop seal issues that eventually allow corrosion to creep down the drive shaft and kill the motor.

biecacka · 08/13/2018, 08:41 AM

Pump is clean.
Talking to reeeflo, it is too old for them to service, or justify the cost. @vinny- I cannot turn the motor. It was working great until the power shut off.

Here’s my next question, I own 2 of these pumps. Anyone with experience sorting of robbing them for parts to make one Frankenstein pump?

Corey

Rover88 · 08/13/2018, 08:50 AM

Locked rotor simply means the pump tries to start and it won't turn.

This happened with my return pump at one point when it shut down and 'locked' up. In my case it was because of buildup; Because the motor was turning all the time it didn't affect it, but once it was stationary long enough for it to set in it sort of 'cemented' it in place, and the motor couldn't overcome the stiction.

First thing first is just remove it, and disassemble it enough to try and turn the impeller with your hand. If you can't, remove and clean the area around the impeller and the shaft and you should be gold?

CSmooth2009 · 08/13/2018, 08:58 AM

I deal with pumps at my job working for a water district... and when pumps lock up.. if u can get a wrench on the drive shaft.. you can give it a couple turns to see if it’ll free up... I would put a rag on the shaft so u don’t scratch it up but u may not have the space to do it... once u spin the shaft manually.. that should break free you pump... if it starts to spin freely then try starting it

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Vinny Kreyling · 08/13/2018, 11:50 AM

The shaft has to come out of the housing to really check the bearings if you can't turn it.
Replacing them is not a big deal. A bearing puller could be needed to remove them.
Replacement can be done with something that is the same diameter of the inner race.
Like a deep socket from a wrench set, even a standard one that can be tapped with a hammer. I have even used a punch to set bearings on shafts.
Note the bearing #'s on both ends as they could be different sizes.
A commercial place that sells machine supplies like pulleys & belts should have them.
OR direct from Reeflo.

tkeracer619 · 08/23/2018, 12:55 AM

Definitely replace the bearings. Should be easy to do unless you can't get the impeller off. Then things get really fun

biecacka · 08/23/2018, 10:20 AM

I have two pumps. I’m hoping I can just combine them into one. But I’m not experienced in this type of work at all. Is it easy?

Corey

Vinny Kreyling · 08/23/2018, 01:12 PM

Take your time with disassembly, take pictures if needed. I don't think so BUT--
Only 1 thing -- IF there is a fan on the read of the motor the threads might be LEFT HANDED, same as the Iwaki's.
There is not much to pumps, a rotor with the impeller attached, front & rear plates with that seat the bearings & the winding on the inside of the housing that is not removable for us.
I'm sure there is a U Tube video out there for reference, maybe one of a Reeflo.

08/07/2018, 12:32 PM	#1
biecacka Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Columbus Ohio Posts: 6,361	Breaker tripped...dart pump not working Sometime last night my breaker tripped for some reason. I unplug everything and flip the switch back over and plug things back in, everything is back and working except my return pump. A dart. Any ideas on where to troubleshoot it? Corey

08/07/2018, 04:33 PM	#5
Vinny Kreyling Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Miller Place, NY Posts: 7,206	First step is to see if you can turn the impeller. If NOT you probably need bearings. __________________ 250 gallon mixed reef, 2 Reefbreeder's Photon V 2, Deepwater BLDC 12, DAS EX-3 Skimmer, MTC mini cal, 2-3/4" Sea Swirls, Aquacontroller & 6 Tunze pumps.

08/12/2018, 09:54 AM	#8
zachfishman Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: St Petersburg, FL Posts: 3,577	Is the pump's drive shaft clean and free of rust? A lot of Reeflo pumps develop seal issues that eventually allow corrosion to creep down the drive shaft and kill the motor. __________________ Patience is a reefer's best tool. Secret Xenia lover. M.S. Marine Biology Staff - Marine Discovery Center, St. Petersburg FL Tampa Bay Reef Club BOD 2018 Current Tank Info: 34g modded Solana

08/13/2018, 11:50 AM	#12
Vinny Kreyling Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Miller Place, NY Posts: 7,206	The shaft has to come out of the housing to really check the bearings if you can't turn it. Replacing them is not a big deal. A bearing puller could be needed to remove them. Replacement can be done with something that is the same diameter of the inner race. Like a deep socket from a wrench set, even a standard one that can be tapped with a hammer. I have even used a punch to set bearings on shafts. Note the bearing #'s on both ends as they could be different sizes. A commercial place that sells machine supplies like pulleys & belts should have them. OR direct from Reeflo. __________________ 250 gallon mixed reef, 2 Reefbreeder's Photon V 2, Deepwater BLDC 12, DAS EX-3 Skimmer, MTC mini cal, 2-3/4" Sea Swirls, Aquacontroller & 6 Tunze pumps.

08/23/2018, 12:55 AM	#13
tkeracer619 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Westminster, CO Posts: 17,289	Definitely replace the bearings. Should be easy to do unless you can't get the impeller off. Then things get really fun __________________ Hobby Experience: 9200ish gallons, 26 skimmers, and a handful of Kent Scrapers. Current Tank: Vortech Powered 600G SPS Tank w/ 100gal frag tank & 100g Sump. RK2-RK10 Skimmer. ReefAngel. Radium 20k.

08/07/2018, 12:36 PM	#2
NubbsJRN Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 127	Nor familiar with Dart. Are those magnetic drive? Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

08/07/2018, 01:02 PM	#3
CSmooth2009 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Menifee Posts: 100	Do you know the dart model?? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

08/07/2018, 03:30 PM	#4
alton Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Zuehl, Texas Posts: 4,460	Motors have a protection called "Locked Rotor". it can be a way to stop itself from burning up. NEC Table 430-251A. A 1/2 hp motor can draw up to 58.8 amps to trip the breaker and shut itself off.

08/07/2018, 10:29 PM	#6
biecacka Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Columbus Ohio Posts: 6,361	I’ll check the model. My plan is to take the pump offline and visually inspect everything and attempt to turn the impeller. Alton, can you provide more information on “locked rotor” Corey

08/08/2018, 05:11 AM	#7
alton Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Zuehl, Texas Posts: 4,460	https://franklinaid.com/tag/locked-rotor-amps/ Like Vinny stated check the pump to see if it turns, or if something is blocking the rotor that may have caused this? Or your pump maybe spent and need rewinding.

08/13/2018, 08:41 AM	#9
biecacka Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Columbus Ohio Posts: 6,361	Pump is clean. Talking to reeeflo, it is too old for them to service, or justify the cost. @vinny- I cannot turn the motor. It was working great until the power shut off. Here’s my next question, I own 2 of these pumps. Anyone with experience sorting of robbing them for parts to make one Frankenstein pump? Corey

08/13/2018, 08:50 AM	#10
Rover88 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: New Brunswick, Canada Posts: 590	Locked rotor simply means the pump tries to start and it won't turn. This happened with my return pump at one point when it shut down and 'locked' up. In my case it was because of buildup; Because the motor was turning all the time it didn't affect it, but once it was stationary long enough for it to set in it sort of 'cemented' it in place, and the motor couldn't overcome the stiction. First thing first is just remove it, and disassemble it enough to try and turn the impeller with your hand. If you can't, remove and clean the area around the impeller and the shaft and you should be gold?

08/13/2018, 08:58 AM	#11
CSmooth2009 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Menifee Posts: 100	I deal with pumps at my job working for a water district... and when pumps lock up.. if u can get a wrench on the drive shaft.. you can give it a couple turns to see if it’ll free up... I would put a rag on the shaft so u don’t scratch it up but u may not have the space to do it... once u spin the shaft manually.. that should break free you pump... if it starts to spin freely then try starting it Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

08/23/2018, 10:20 AM	#14
biecacka Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Columbus Ohio Posts: 6,361	I have two pumps. I’m hoping I can just combine them into one. But I’m not experienced in this type of work at all. Is it easy? Corey

08/23/2018, 01:12 PM	#15
Vinny Kreyling Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Miller Place, NY Posts: 7,206	Take your time with disassembly, take pictures if needed. I don't think so BUT-- Only 1 thing -- IF there is a fan on the read of the motor the threads might be LEFT HANDED, same as the Iwaki's. There is not much to pumps, a rotor with the impeller attached, front & rear plates with that seat the bearings & the winding on the inside of the housing that is not removable for us. I'm sure there is a U Tube video out there for reference, maybe one of a Reeflo. __________________ 250 gallon mixed reef, 2 Reefbreeder's Photon V 2, Deepwater BLDC 12, DAS EX-3 Skimmer, MTC mini cal, 2-3/4" Sea Swirls, Aquacontroller & 6 Tunze pumps.