How bad is a little rust?

skunkshrimp · 02/08/2010, 08:10 PM

I have a custom made 400 gallon reef tank. the tank was made by a factory in china that I do business with. I didn't trust that the tank would hold up, so i made some "stainless steel" supports to go over the top. Now a year later the tank is built into my home and the supports are starting to rust. When bumped the supports drop small amounts of rust into the tank. I know this isn't good, and have rapped them with plastic rap, but am wondering how much damage I could have already caused. How bad is a little rust?

iceman79 · 02/08/2010, 08:25 PM

From what ive seen rust is really bad for your tank it can leech copper and other unwanted metals

bertoni · 02/08/2010, 08:30 PM

Well, the damage would depend on what exactly is in the rust. I might run a PolyFilter, but I suspect the tank will be okay if the steel is replaced.

RBU1 · 02/08/2010, 08:33 PM

Isn't GFO rust particles and we use it to remove phophates..

bertoni · 02/08/2010, 09:02 PM

Yes, GFO products are rusted iron. The issue with the steel is with the ingredients other than iron, some of which can be very toxic. Most grades of stainless steel are not safe with saltwater.

schnitm · 02/08/2010, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RBU1

Isn't GFO rust particles and we use it to remove phophates..

GFO's iron and hydroxide. No big deal. The metal in stainless steel's a lot more than iron. Perhaps most notably is the healthy dose of chromium that makes it "stainless." Then a bunch of other things both intentional, and unintentional (as contaminants). That last part is what would bother me.

Me? I would want the frame off.

mr.maroonsalty · 02/08/2010, 09:04 PM

That was my thought GFO Granular Iron Rust, but apparently it is a much more stable material. The few studies I looked at about raw steal were about artificial reef building, and if I read things correctly, most concern was over the lack of algae growth and the associated organisms. It was mentioned when iron was in excess it is stashed away in the coral skeletons. There are people here who like to play around dosing both iron and silicates, but not knowing what alloy may be disintegrating into your tank seems potentially dangerous to me.

HighlandReefer · 02/09/2010, 07:04 AM

skunkshrimp,

To Reef Central

Iron and heavy metal contaminates that may come from your rusted frame will be tied to organic matter pretty quickly, which will reduce the toxicity. If you have taken measures to prevent further rust from entering into your system, then most likely the danger has passed. Running GAC and a polyfilter will help to remove any of these heavy metals that are currently in your system.

Randy Holmes-Farley · 02/09/2010, 07:06 AM

Do you know what grade of stainless steel it was?

akunochi · 02/09/2010, 07:10 AM

If you are worried you could run a polyfilter or Seachem cuprisorb. I ran both after I realized that there was a brass fitting leeching into my system for a month. I would def do something about the rust issue, even if it was covering the tank and coating it with something.

HighlandReefer · 02/09/2010, 07:18 AM

This is an interesting study related to the increased iron and no doubt heavy metals around a sunken ship:

Phase Shift from a Coral to a Corallimorph-Dominated Reef Associated with a Shipwreck on Palmyra Atoll
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:...l.pone.0002989

schnitm · 02/09/2010, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HighlandReefer

This is an interesting study related to the increased iron and no doubt heavy metals around a sunken ship:

Phase Shift from a Coral to a Corallimorph-Dominated Reef Associated with a Shipwreck on Palmyra Atoll
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:...l.pone.0002989

Fascinating article! The buoy data seems to pin it on the metal. Most likely the iron and not "some other component" I think.

mr.maroonsalty · 02/09/2010, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schnitm

Fascinating article! The buoy data seems to pin it on the metal. Most likely the iron and not "some other component" I think.

seems so; too bad they aren't an ulta coloured ric so eradication could be well funded.

mr.maroonsalty · 02/09/2010, 11:14 AM

It would be an interesting eradication plan if a commercially desirable species could be used to out compete the invasive, making the eradication plan economically rewarding???

Texxxx · 02/09/2010, 03:43 PM

You are getting lots of advice on the rust, so I want say anymore on that.
I would suggest to remove the plastic and cover the brace with silicone. It will eliminate anymore oxygen getting to the metal and it will stop rusting.

skunkshrimp · 02/09/2010, 05:42 PM

WOW,

Thanks everyone for the help! I have a couple of questions pertaining to some acronyms used. What are GFO products, and what is a GAC filter?

I've start making more RO for a 20% water change.

One other question; I am going to buy a new test kit, which ones do y'all recommend?

Thanks Again!

mr.maroonsalty · 02/09/2010, 05:48 PM

GFO granular ferric oxide (phosphate remover media)
GAC granular activated carbon
which test kit to use is an ongoing question in my head; Salifert gets as good reviews as any.

Spslvr · 06/21/2014, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randy Holmes-Farley

Do you know what grade of stainless steel it was?

I realise this is a really old post Randy. But lets say its 316 or 306 are these harmfull if rusting inside a closed loop system?

Randy Holmes-Farley · 06/22/2014, 06:14 AM

If they actually corroded and dissolved, that could be a big problem from the ingredients.

But, I have some 316 stainless parts in my tanks for many years (metal arm of two float switches) and I've not detected a problem that I'd attribute to them.

I don't know about 304 and its long term corrosion resistance.

Spslvr · 06/22/2014, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randy Holmes-Farley

If they actually corroded and dissolved, that could be a big problem from the ingredients.

But, I have some 316 stainless parts in my tanks for many years (metal arm of two float switches) and I've not detected a problem that I'd attribute to them.

I don't know about 304 and its long term corrosion resistance.

Thanks for the reply Randy. I have some 316 rods in my tank atm and they are corroding albeit only mildly. I cant see any adverse effects on animals yet. Im in two minds about weather to remove them or not

Fishmommy · 06/22/2014, 06:38 AM

316L is much more corrosion resistant than 304. That said, they all rust eventually.

Spslvr · 06/22/2014, 06:40 AM

Mines rusting in a matter of days. But im not sure weather its only the outer coating

bertoni · 06/22/2014, 02:36 PM

I think that real 316 shouldn't rust in a few days. This brings back memories of a "titanium" heater that rusted to orange-ish after a few days in my tank.

Spslvr · 06/22/2014, 05:23 PM

Might have to change material, mabe carbon fibre

Murgen · 08/28/2014, 04:23 PM

Thanks for the topic.

It motivated me to remove the 3 rusting metal clamps on various pumps in my refugium that were rusting on me over the last 2 years. Feel much better having them off and replaced with plastic clamps.

02/08/2010, 08:10 PM	#1
skunkshrimp Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2	How bad is a little rust? I have a custom made 400 gallon reef tank. the tank was made by a factory in china that I do business with. I didn't trust that the tank would hold up, so i made some "stainless steel" supports to go over the top. Now a year later the tank is built into my home and the supports are starting to rust. When bumped the supports drop small amounts of rust into the tank. I know this isn't good, and have rapped them with plastic rap, but am wondering how much damage I could have already caused. How bad is a little rust?

02/08/2010, 08:25 PM	#2
iceman79 Registered Reefhead Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 572	From what ive seen rust is really bad for your tank it can leech copper and other unwanted metals __________________ Reef keeping gods favorite hobby Current Tank Info: 72 bowfront mixed reef >20 gallon softie tank

02/08/2010, 08:30 PM	#3
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Well, the damage would depend on what exactly is in the rust. I might run a PolyFilter, but I suspect the tank will be okay if the steel is replaced. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

02/08/2010, 09:02 PM	#5
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Yes, GFO products are rusted iron. The issue with the steel is with the ingredients other than iron, some of which can be very toxic. Most grades of stainless steel are not safe with saltwater. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

02/09/2010, 07:04 AM	#8
HighlandReefer Team RC Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Highland, Maryland Entomologist Posts: 14,591	skunkshrimp, To Reef Central Iron and heavy metal contaminates that may come from your rusted frame will be tied to organic matter pretty quickly, which will reduce the toxicity. If you have taken measures to prevent further rust from entering into your system, then most likely the danger has passed. Running GAC and a polyfilter will help to remove any of these heavy metals that are currently in your system. __________________ Cliff Babcock Intestests: Digital Microscopy; Marine Pest Control; Marine Plants & Macroalgae Current Tank Info: 180 g. mixed reef system Last edited by HighlandReefer; 02/09/2010 at 07:09 AM.

02/08/2010, 08:33 PM	#4
RBU1 Moving on Up Join Date: May 2004 Location: Southern NJ Posts: 5,167	Isn't GFO rust particles and we use it to remove phophates..

02/08/2010, 09:04 PM	#7
mr.maroonsalty Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: upstateny Posts: 2,504	That was my thought GFO Granular Iron Rust, but apparently it is a much more stable material. The few studies I looked at about raw steal were about artificial reef building, and if I read things correctly, most concern was over the lack of algae growth and the associated organisms. It was mentioned when iron was in excess it is stashed away in the coral skeletons. There are people here who like to play around dosing both iron and silicates, but not knowing what alloy may be disintegrating into your tank seems potentially dangerous to me.

02/09/2010, 07:06 AM	#9
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 86,233	Do you know what grade of stainless steel it was? __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

02/09/2010, 07:10 AM	#10
akunochi Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Seattle, Wa Posts: 168	If you are worried you could run a polyfilter or Seachem cuprisorb. I ran both after I realized that there was a brass fitting leeching into my system for a month. I would def do something about the rust issue, even if it was covering the tank and coating it with something.

02/09/2010, 07:18 AM	#11
HighlandReefer Team RC Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Highland, Maryland Entomologist Posts: 14,591	This is an interesting study related to the increased iron and no doubt heavy metals around a sunken ship: Phase Shift from a Coral to a Corallimorph-Dominated Reef Associated with a Shipwreck on Palmyra Atoll http://www.plosone.org/article/info:...l.pone.0002989 __________________ Cliff Babcock Intestests: Digital Microscopy; Marine Pest Control; Marine Plants & Macroalgae Current Tank Info: 180 g. mixed reef system

02/09/2010, 11:14 AM	#14
mr.maroonsalty Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: upstateny Posts: 2,504	It would be an interesting eradication plan if a commercially desirable species could be used to out compete the invasive, making the eradication plan economically rewarding???

02/09/2010, 03:43 PM	#15
Texxxx Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Lubbock, Texas Posts: 172	You are getting lots of advice on the rust, so I want say anymore on that. I would suggest to remove the plastic and cover the brace with silicone. It will eliminate anymore oxygen getting to the metal and it will stop rusting. __________________ Tank: 125gal money pit Current Tank Info: 125gal, 55 sump with fug, 3x250MH, 2x60" VHO, Euro-Reef RC250 skimmer, Ca reactor, ATO Kalk, 2500gph closed loop

02/09/2010, 05:42 PM	#16
skunkshrimp Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2	WOW, Thanks everyone for the help! I have a couple of questions pertaining to some acronyms used. What are GFO products, and what is a GAC filter? I've start making more RO for a 20% water change. One other question; I am going to buy a new test kit, which ones do y'all recommend? Thanks Again!

02/09/2010, 05:48 PM	#17
mr.maroonsalty Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: upstateny Posts: 2,504	GFO granular ferric oxide (phosphate remover media) GAC granular activated carbon which test kit to use is an ongoing question in my head; Salifert gets as good reviews as any.

06/22/2014, 06:14 AM	#19
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 86,233	If they actually corroded and dissolved, that could be a big problem from the ingredients. But, I have some 316 stainless parts in my tanks for many years (metal arm of two float switches) and I've not detected a problem that I'd attribute to them. I don't know about 304 and its long term corrosion resistance. __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

06/22/2014, 06:38 AM	#21
Fishmommy Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: NH, USA Posts: 1,214	316L is much more corrosion resistant than 304. That said, they all rust eventually. __________________ 135 DSA reef w/50 MRC sump. 10 + 5 QT, 180 planted, 75 planted

06/22/2014, 06:40 AM	#22
Spslvr Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Melbourne australia Posts: 595	Mines rusting in a matter of days. But im not sure weather its only the outer coating

06/22/2014, 02:36 PM	#23
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I think that real 316 shouldn't rust in a few days. This brings back memories of a "titanium" heater that rusted to orange-ish after a few days in my tank. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

06/22/2014, 05:23 PM	#24
Spslvr Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Melbourne australia Posts: 595	Might have to change material, mabe carbon fibre

08/28/2014, 04:23 PM	#25
Murgen Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 1	Thanks for the topic. It motivated me to remove the 3 rusting metal clamps on various pumps in my refugium that were rusting on me over the last 2 years. Feel much better having them off and replaced with plastic clamps.