Reef Central Online Community

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > More Forums > RC Archives > Equipment
Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

 
Thread Tools
Unread 05/25/2000, 03:46 PM   #1
Larry M
Moved On
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Burnsville,MN In the heart of Reef Country!
Posts: 4,544
Two people in the past week have asked me about the benefits of controlling the output from a reactor with a valve before the water enters the reactor instead of after. The idea here is to get away from that output flow valve clogging over time.
I have never tried this but in thinking about it one concern would be starving the circulation pump and possible burning it out. Is anyone doing this and how is it working for you?

------------------
Larry M

Visit Reef Stores.com The liaison between hobbyists and on-line retailers.

See my tanks at Northern Reef



Larry M is offline  
Unread 05/25/2000, 04:39 PM   #2
newkie
Premium Member
 
newkie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Galway, Ireland
Posts: 3,376
Interesting, but is the output flow valve so prone to clogging? I have had a reactor since September and I'm using a simple 50cent green plastic valve. Seems to be doing the job just great and if it ever does clog, hey its only 50cents! I think your concern regarding starving the circulation pump is a valid, it doesn't seem worth it IMHO.


newkie is offline  
Unread 05/25/2000, 04:42 PM   #3
Flamehawk
Moved On
 
Flamehawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Miami,FL,USA
Posts: 1,004
Just bringing this to the top, this is something that i've wondered myself Larry.

JOHNNY

------------------
My Reef


Flamehawk is offline  
Unread 05/25/2000, 05:19 PM   #4
Vins Fins
Registered Member
 
Vins Fins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Cicero NY
Posts: 681

Hi Larry,

I've run it both ways, if you inst the valve before the reactor, don't worry about burning up the pump.if the valve gets plugged up then no water can enter, and therfore no water will leave.the water will just recirc.
I pesoally like the valve after evrything,only because it is easier to adj the out put flow, the out put flow is very important, i use a stop watch to calibrate it. if you're worried about it getting plugged, then up you're c02 psig to around 30#'s. I have no trouble with it clogging.

Vinny


Vins Fins is offline  
Unread 05/25/2000, 05:20 PM   #5
watsonj
10 & Over Club
 
watsonj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Minneapolis,mn
Posts: 339
I have a lumar reactor which has the flow control on the input side and never had a problem.
Jon


watsonj is offline  
Unread 05/25/2000, 05:38 PM   #6
Twinspot99
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 113
I want to add something to what Vinny said. It's true that if no water come in then no water will come out unless your CO2 gas keeps on coming in. Eventually it will force all the the water out and the recirc pump would have the potential to run dry. JMO


Twinspot99 is offline  
Unread 05/25/2000, 05:44 PM   #7
OrionN
Moved on
 
OrionN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Coastal Texas
Posts: 16,000
I am having problem with the accurate flow through the Ca reactor when I first set it up. The main reason is I just fed it with gravity instead of hook it to the return pump. I did not wanted to spend the time to redo the plumping so I got a dosing pump for it instead. Very easy to control the rate with dosing pump and not worry about the flow rate increase or decrease. Already spended 700+ for the reactor, what 100 dollars more?

------------------
Minh Nguyen
Visit my reef at:
http://sites.netscape.net/austinnguyen/homepage


OrionN is offline  
Unread 05/25/2000, 05:57 PM   #8
Vins Fins
Registered Member
 
Vins Fins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Cicero NY
Posts: 681

Twinspot99,

as long as you're output is at the top of the reactor then the c02 will either push out the plugged area, or if the c02 regulator is set to low it will act like you're soenoid valve and stop flowing c02 as well, that is why i like to run the c02 pressure a bit higher.no more than 35#'s max, don't want anything cracking or the air line tubing breaking. I 've found that the c02 will work its way to the top and purge itself out of the
output line, even if it gets a little plugged.
I once had it go for three days with no water dripping from the out put and the water level in the reactor remained the same. the reacotr pump was just recirculating the water, no problem at all.

Vinny



Vins Fins is offline  
Unread 05/25/2000, 05:57 PM   #9
brandon higbee
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: bradenton FL usa
Posts: 5
i have red sea lg model it works that way and it works fine the pump is internel the feed is by siphon works great two years running not a problem yet good luck brandon


brandon higbee is offline  
Unread 05/25/2000, 06:22 PM   #10
geo
RC Mod
 
geo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: St. George Island, FL
Posts: 19,512
I also have tried it both ways and like the valve at the output. If you go with the valve at the input I think it needs to be at the reactor and not the pump. I also recently had to tee off the main pump to feed mine, I had it drawing water out of the sump and for whatever reason it quit doing it.

------------------
george w.

my diy skimmer/reactor


geo is offline  
Unread 05/25/2000, 09:14 PM   #11
Agu
Registered Member
 
Agu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Sarasota, Florida
Posts: 30,279
Geez Larry, I ask you a simple question and you have a thousand people check it out. Bottom line, a valve on the input works a little better than a valve at the top of the output, but really it's six of one and a half dozen of the other. Agu


Agu is offline  
Unread 05/25/2000, 09:24 PM   #12
Larry M
Moved On
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Burnsville,MN In the heart of Reef Country!
Posts: 4,544
Agu--I thought you didn't have it running yet? How do you know it works better?

------------------
Larry M

Visit Reef Stores.com The liaison between hobbyists and on-line retailers.

See my tanks at Northern Reef



Larry M is offline  
Unread 05/25/2000, 10:08 PM   #13
Clam Man
Awaiting Email Confirmation
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Auburn, CA
Posts: 68
Here is the solution to anyone having trouble with the clogging at the output. Some reactors take the effluent from the botom of the reactor and this allows the micro particles getting to the valve. Also if your water recirculation is too fast and your reactor has the output at the top of the reactor the particles will be in suspention anyway and make thier way to the valve. SOLUTION: About 6 inches before the output valve install a sediment chamber in the line. Larry your handy with acrilic, you can built a 4"x1"x1' chamber or you can make it out of pvc and cap the ends. As the water moves through this chamber the water flow will slow enough for the sediment to drop out of the effluent. Do not worry about the Ca++ precipitating out of solution because the water is not stagnate and does not have enough time to precipitate for fast reactors (effluent flow of >1 liter/hr). If you have a slower reactor (smaller bioload) shorten the length of this chamber not the diameter. Any questions let me know.


Clam Man is offline  
Unread 05/26/2000, 04:51 AM   #14
David Newman
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 239
Larry,

For the first 3 weeks or so after setting up my (your) reactor the valve on the outflow would gradually clog over the course of 2-3 days slowing the flow to a crawl. After approx 3 weeks the problem disappeared. For lack of a better explanation, I attribute the early problem to a failure to adequately rinse the media.

David


David Newman is offline  
Unread 05/26/2000, 06:02 AM   #15
Andy
Registered Member
 
Andy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Sudbury, Canada
Posts: 329
I have a Precion Marine calcium reactor and the flow valve is situated on the incoming side. I'm having a hell of a time getting the outflow rate stable. Any thoughts?


Andy is offline  
Unread 05/26/2000, 06:36 AM   #16
Longmont
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 5
Does the pressure inside the reactor affect how well it works? I made my own reactor, and I put the valve on the output and the feed is from the skimmer pump (so there is a good amount of pressure on the input). I did this so I could have a higer pressure inside the reactor and thus dissolve more CO2. This might not be making much difference at all though. I haven't tried it the other way. Anyone have any experience or theories on this?

I haven't had any problem with the output cloging (4 months now). Are the valves cloging from dust off of rubbing media granules, or is it clogging from precipitation of CaCO3? It seems that the CaCO3 would be unlikely to precipitate inside the reactor, where it is supposed to be dissolving. On my reactor, the tube where it drips into the sump is encrusted at the end where it comes out, but the hose is clear and I can't see any white stuff anywhere near the output valve. If the output is getting clogged with dust, then maybe the recirculation is too vigorus, and the media is grinding itself into dust.

My $0.02



Longmont is offline  
Unread 05/26/2000, 05:18 PM   #17
Snailman
Premium Member
 
Snailman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Va Beach Area
Posts: 4,032
We have a Knop C and the restrictor is on the output and it works fine. It may depend on the type of output valve you use.


Snailman is offline  
Unread 05/26/2000, 05:34 PM   #18
Flamehawk
Moved On
 
Flamehawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Miami,FL,USA
Posts: 1,004
Clam Man, do you have a pic?

JOHNNY

------------------
flamehawk@hotmail.com My Reef


Flamehawk is offline  
Unread 05/26/2000, 09:20 PM   #19
Agu
Registered Member
 
Agu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Sarasota, Florida
Posts: 30,279
Larry, clam man told me about the potemtial problem at the last club meeting, and his solution also. with the design of my/your reactor it shouldn't be a problem. Yeah, I set it up today and everything seems to be OK, but the needle valve is really touchy. Interesting side note, the connection from the co2 tank was leaking and my dog got really wierd. He kept walking around the room sniffing everything with his ears back, and finally focused on the sump. After I found the co2 leak and fixed it he mellowed out.


Agu is offline  
Unread 05/26/2000, 09:23 PM   #20
DBW
Reefer
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 14
Hey ya Larry

As with most things, 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. Each has it pros and cons. Personally I have the control valve on my calcium reactor on the output side of the reactor. Here are a few ideas that come to mind for either way:

Input side

Flowrate influenced by pump pressure and valve, including degree of blockage.

Reactor operates at just slightly above atmospheric pressure.

Less likely to clob up, due to the lower calcium carbonate content of the water, and suspended solids.

Output side

Flowrate influenced by pump pressure, valve, and carbon dioxide pressure.

Reactor operates at above atmospheric pressure, effected by pump (largest otherwise doesn't work) and carbon dioxide pressure.

More likely to clog up due to the fact has high calcium carbonate content i.e. easy to precipitate, and suspend solids likely to be higher due to the substrate in the column dissolving into smaller grains.


DBW is offline  
 

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2022
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.