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Old 12/10/2015, 01:12 PM   #2326
acabgd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DNA View Post
Unidentified dinoflagellates is this threads biggest problem.
You surely understand not everyone around the world has access to a microscope, can afford to get one or simply has the time to go out, shop for, learn how to use and take a decent photo with a microscope.

In my case it's simply far easier just to reboot the whole tank.


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Old 12/10/2015, 04:41 PM   #2327
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Originally Posted by acabgd View Post
You surely understand not everyone around the world has access to a microscope, can afford to get one or simply has the time to go out, shop for, learn how to use and take a decent photo with a microscope.

In my case it's simply far easier just to reboot the whole tank.
A cheap microscope will do and using one is not rocket science. DNA simply means that different treatments are working for different people and the only thing that makes any sense is the different types of dinoflagellates. PANTS has id several fellow RC members Dinos and it seems we have 3 major diffrent types.If we could identify which treatments are working for which ones it would make things a whole lot easier.


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Old 12/10/2015, 04:54 PM   #2328
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Hope things work out for you. A friend of mine used DinoX and experienced similar results until 30 days after the last dose. The tank got ultra sterile and he lost all SPS corals to RTN and STN. He used 5 or 6 doses. Dinos died along with coralline algae and SPS corals.

I didn't want to go into a long post about causes of your friends SPS loss, but there's so many things at play when using Dino. You have to really dose the right amount, your lighting schedule to little whites/more blues, no water changes, no reactors, no dosing of trace elements, wet skimming, etc. I know when I'm done I will start things back slowly not to stress anything out. I also saw post on fish loss. There could have been many things not done right with a lot of the losses. I'll be on dose 4 tonight. Can't wait until it's all over.


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Old 12/10/2015, 07:17 PM   #2329
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Originally Posted by Jewilson83 View Post
I didn't want to go into a long post about causes of your friends SPS loss, but there's so many things at play when using Dino. You have to really dose the right amount, your lighting schedule to little whites/more blues, no water changes, no reactors, no dosing of trace elements, wet skimming, etc. I know when I'm done I will start things back slowly not to stress anything out. I also saw post on fish loss. There could have been many things not done right with a lot of the losses. I'll be on dose 4 tonight. Can't wait until it's all over.
I do not know all the details, he said he followed the instructions on the bottle. He has the worst reef luck.


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Old 12/10/2015, 11:45 PM   #2330
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@DNA hey, I did your plastic square experiment on the sand with a couple of frag bases. The spots where they were left for a week then removed remain clear of dinos.

@kazalla This is very encouraging, your tank is really rebounding. I don't know what that green algae is either, but I'd like it in my tank.

@acabgd DNA means that if we knew which species people had we could get some real info and give better advice on what methods to use. DNA and I both have Ostreopsis and interestingly our infestations follow the same course; mine is just 'younger'. I've noticed on this thread that people with O's tanks start out the same way mine did. It may be that the problem 'develops' with different (and more annoying) symptoms the longer it goes on and people who nip Ostreopsis in the bud won't see all the problems we've had.

Re microscopes, I certainly understand budget limitations; I'm self employed and can't afford most of the stuff I'd like. You surely know someone who has a 'scope and will let you use it for a couple of minutes. Vet clinics, local high school, tech college, university, your doctor.. You can take pictures through the microscope using an ipod or phone. They look like *** but all we really need is the general shape to narrow it down. See my photobucket for ipod pics.

@ridetheducati SPS are notoriously fickle. As you probably know, the symbiote that powers corals is a dinoflagellate, so dino X very likely weakens corals severely even when used as recommended.

@Jewilson83 Following with much interest! I've forgotten whether you have sps or not but I'd still recommend making sure you have low but detectable n and p after treatment, even if you have to dose.

My tank: major issues, I seem to have hit a critical mass of dinos. Dead conch, half my hammer coral is gone. Alk is unstable again which is a BAD sign, and that funny smell is back. Running tons of carbon and dosing N but levels will not come above 0. Doesn't help that my flakey pump quit again and I'm not getting paid till Monday. Grr.

holy wall o text
ivy


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Old 12/11/2015, 01:47 AM   #2331
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I often get the smell of sulfur shortly after the lights go out.


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Old 12/11/2015, 08:09 AM   #2332
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One thing to mention. When I dose cal and alk, dinos increase next day


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Old 12/11/2015, 10:15 AM   #2333
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One thing to mention. When I dose cal and alk, dinos increase next day
Can you be more specific.

I think it's possible that dilution of the toxins in the water column can cause an icrease in dinos.


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Old 12/11/2015, 10:37 AM   #2334
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Originally Posted by Quiet_Ivy View Post
@DNA hey, I did your plastic square experiment on the sand with a couple of frag bases. The spots where they were left for a week then removed remain clear of dinos.



@kazalla This is very encouraging, your tank is really rebounding. I don't know what that green algae is either, but I'd like it in my tank.



@acabgd DNA means that if we knew which species people had we could get some real info and give better advice on what methods to use. DNA and I both have Ostreopsis and interestingly our infestations follow the same course; mine is just 'younger'. I've noticed on this thread that people with O's tanks start out the same way mine did. It may be that the problem 'develops' with different (and more annoying) symptoms the longer it goes on and people who nip Ostreopsis in the bud won't see all the problems we've had.



Re microscopes, I certainly understand budget limitations; I'm self employed and can't afford most of the stuff I'd like. You surely know someone who has a 'scope and will let you use it for a couple of minutes. Vet clinics, local high school, tech college, university, your doctor.. You can take pictures through the microscope using an ipod or phone. They look like *** but all we really need is the general shape to narrow it down. See my photobucket for ipod pics.



@ridetheducati SPS are notoriously fickle. As you probably know, the symbiote that powers corals is a dinoflagellate, so dino X very likely weakens corals severely even when used as recommended.



@Jewilson83 Following with much interest! I've forgotten whether you have sps or not but I'd still recommend making sure you have low but detectable n and p after treatment, even if you have to dose.



My tank: major issues, I seem to have hit a critical mass of dinos. Dead conch, half my hammer coral is gone. Alk is unstable again which is a BAD sign, and that funny smell is back. Running tons of carbon and dosing N but levels will not come above 0. Doesn't help that my flakey pump quit again and I'm not getting paid till Monday. Grr.



holy wall o text

ivy

Yes I have an SPS dominated tank with zoas/palys and 2 maze corals.


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Old 12/11/2015, 12:42 PM   #2335
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Can you be more specific.

I think it's possible that dilution of the toxins in the water column can cause an icrease in dinos.
I usually does 5ml of calcium and 5 ml of alk from two little fishes two part every like 4 days. By the 4th day, dinos reduce. After I dose on 4th day, dinos increase in size on sandbed by end of day and next day. I think they might like calcium and alk.


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Old 12/12/2015, 12:50 PM   #2336
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I have a high nitrate reading and lots of dinoflagellates. Does anyone know if dinoflagellates are affected by nitrates and if nitrates help them thrive


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Old 12/12/2015, 04:53 PM   #2337
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Many dinoflagellates can consume nitrate via photosynthesis, and possibly via symbionts capable of denitrification.


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Old 12/13/2015, 05:58 PM   #2338
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I have a high nitrate reading and lots of dinoflagellates. Does anyone know if dinoflagellates are affected by nitrates and if nitrates help them thrive
They aren't concerned with nitrate. Remember a lot of us have absolute 0 N and massive dino problems. The trick to the 'dirty method' is to have measurable N and *also* have high phosphate. (0.03 high, not like 4) With both N and P high the green algae start to grow, and they take over, crowding the dinos out. That's why I keep asking you what your phosphate is, it's not just to be annoying.

Interesting that your dinos are worse after dosing. I don't see that effect, and my alk drops like a rock. (It was 6 this morning for heaven's sake, down from close to 8 2 days ago) Does alk/ca get very low the day before you dose?

hth
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Old 12/14/2015, 10:05 AM   #2339
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They aren't concerned with nitrate. Remember a lot of us have absolute 0 N and massive dino problems. The trick to the 'dirty method' is to have measurable N and *also* have high phosphate. (0.03 high, not like 4) With both N and P high the green algae start to grow, and they take over, crowding the dinos out. That's why I keep asking you what your phosphate is, it's not just to be annoying.

Interesting that your dinos are worse after dosing. I don't see that effect, and my alk drops like a rock. (It was 6 this morning for heaven's sake, down from close to 8 2 days ago) Does alk/ca get very low the day before you dose?

hth
ivy

Phosphates are not detectible. 0
And nope, no real change in alk or calcium next day


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Old 12/14/2015, 03:17 PM   #2340
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Massive amounts of red slim or brown slime on sand bed. What to do? Dose chemi clean?


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Old 12/14/2015, 03:34 PM   #2341
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Massive amounts of red slim or brown slime on sand bed. What to do? Dose chemi clean?
Ultralife Red Slime Remover. I have used it in two tanks to remove red cyano. It does a great job. However, it will have zero impact on other algae in the tank.


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Old 12/14/2015, 09:13 PM   #2342
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is red slime remover a bacteria killing agent?


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Old 12/15/2015, 03:01 PM   #2343
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Massive amounts of red slim or brown slime on sand bed. What to do? Dose chemi clean?
Don't panic, try to remove it by dragging a plastic fork through it and twirling like spaghetti. Pick it off your sps, should come easily. It's like cycling a tank in reverse, you get waves of various nuisances. Let your P rise slightly too and it will turn to green algae.

Wouldn't dose chemi clean unless it's bad enough that your corals are affected. Red slime remover sounds like it's enzymes and probably an oxidant like peroxide. Again I wouldn't dose unless your animals are being affected.

hth
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Old 12/15/2015, 03:54 PM   #2344
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So how do we know when to resume water changes? When is the nuisance algae is enough and the dinos in check that its safe to try? I'm dealing with the same as Billybatz it seems. Tons of red/dark growth all over sand. So much I finally sihponed it out last night. And now it seems like getting green hair algae outbreak. Dinos are 99.5% gone, only a few scattered in my overflows and return plumbing.

Is this saying that my nutrients from the dirty method are high enough and dinos no longer able to keep them in check?


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Old 12/15/2015, 03:55 PM   #2345
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So how do we know when to resume water changes? When is the nuisance algae is enough and the dinos in check that its safe to try? I'm dealing with the same as Billybatz it seems. Tons of red/dark growth all over sand. So much I finally sihponed it out last night. And now it seems like getting green hair algae outbreak. Dinos are 99.5% gone, only a few scattered in my overflows and return plumbing.

Is this saying that my nutrients from the dirty method are high enough and dinos no longer able to keep them in check?

Gooood question. Let me know when you know. Every time I do a water change, I get a slight dusting of them.


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Old 12/16/2015, 05:57 AM   #2346
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Dino X does not work for Ostreopsis

Confirmed : Dino X so far after 6 doses has produced no visible results on the Dinoflagellates Ostreopsis.
Im going to stop using it after that 6th dose since I'm seeing absolutely no improvement in the Dinos whatsoever. I know it says to use for up to 21 days but from what ive seen as far as myDinos is concerned I might as well dosed water. Dinos is not getting better or worse in my case. Other algae however has subsided and now i have a bit of bryopsis that seem to be on the rise from the increased food nitrients(never had this problem before) since im also tinkering with the dirty method as well.

On the plus side i didn't lose a single coral or fish or shrimp. The product does say not to overdose and to dose per 5 ml per 26 gallons. I belive the small case of people's overdosing might be due to not knowing exact water in system after you subtract for live rock and sand. I have a 125 gallon tank with 20 gallon sump and some reactors which is roughly 145 gallons. But when i filled my tank i kept count of the gallons and in actuality is only 110 after rock and sand. This could be an easy miscalculation and potential overdose if not taken in to account so be careful. I have 2 cleaner shrimps who i monitored very closely the first times i dosed. They showed ZERO signs of stress.
I now just plan to live with it since it was not extremely bad to begin with but i may have upset the tank balance killing the other algae off time will tell.
My next approach will be to add my UV sterilizer i have laying in my garage into the system and continue the higher nutrients. I plan on keeping GFO out of my system for a while since i belive the low PO4 and nitrates were a contributing factor of the Dino rise. In 10 years of prior reef keeping( the wrong way not QT and minimal waterchanges) i never even heard of Dinos. This tank i have done all by the book( minus QT for coral, I just use coral dip for corals) and Dinos has thrived on this low nutrient setting.


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Old 12/16/2015, 12:10 PM   #2347
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So how do we know when to resume water changes? When is the nuisance algae is enough and the dinos in check that its safe to try? I'm dealing with the same as Billybatz it seems. Tons of red/dark growth all over sand. So much I finally sihponed it out last night. And now it seems like getting green hair algae outbreak. Dinos are 99.5% gone, only a few scattered in my overflows and return plumbing.

Is this saying that my nutrients from the dirty method are high enough and dinos no longer able to keep them in check?
I used the dirty method and let it go until hair algae was starting on the back glass then I started my skimmer and skimmed dry, I let the cyano go for a couple weeks removing some with a turkey baster to keep it under control then did Chemiclean treatment, follow instructions and add aeration, skimmer will go nuts for 4 or 5 days so shut it off, after 48 hours I did a 20% water change, all the time I was dosing phyto daily and pods weekly and it was the final blow to the dinos. I put a new sand bed in a couple weeks later and resumed reg water changes a few weeks after that.
I am 28 weeks dino free, still dosing phyto daily and adding pods weekly.

The dirty encourages a healthy micro fauna and this is what I believe keeps the dinos in check, I maintain my po4 @ .04 and my no3 @ 5 ppm.
When the hair algae and the cyano are starting to take off then it is dirty enough but you must add plankton to win the battle.

Ostreopsis Ovata.


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Old 12/17/2015, 09:26 PM   #2348
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Thanks for the input DFee and Cal_Stir. So, a few nights ago I siphoned out 90% of the growth on my sand. I say "growth" b/c I dont know if it was Cyano, or Dinos or Algae. Looks like Cyano to me. Darkish, almost black. But it was literally a layer like algae. No bubbles tho.

So, WOW, what a result. The next night my tank looked AMAZING! not just the clean sand but the rocks and the water look great! So clean and clear. The little bit of growth I was seeing each night on my rocks is gone.

So I'm thinking that whatever I removed was polluting my water column in some way? and removing it just helped everything so much. I will say I'm also running carbon at this time.

I'd prefer not to have to siphon this stuff out periodically but we'll see what happens in the next few days.


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Old 12/17/2015, 10:11 PM   #2349
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Help with ID, please!

Here are some pictures and a few videos of my dinos. I'm thinking one of the Ostreopsis species but could use some ID help. Thoughts?

The dark mass is green algea, just the little dots were moving around:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d9lFBy9Dc0






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Old 12/18/2015, 06:02 AM   #2350
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Looks like Ostreopsis, do they spin?


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