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Unread 11/20/2014, 05:12 PM   #426
codyreed29
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Well **** if dinos aren't killed by freshwater dipping I have already ****ed a brand new tank setup. My qt and other qt have the dinos.

If this was ebola or a vombie attack id be dead LOL.


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Unread 11/20/2014, 05:13 PM   #427
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Well **** if dinos aren't killed by freshwater dipping I have already ****ed a brand new tank setup. My qt and other qt have the dinos.

If this was ebola or a vombie attack id be dead LOL.
I think you misunderstood what I said lol. I was talking about the zooxanthellae in the corals, a FW dip won't get to them, they're protected by the coral, but any problem dinos inside any coral at the time will also be safe, which sucks


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Dinoflagellates are the kiss of death.

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Unread 11/20/2014, 07:13 PM   #428
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Well damn they are in both my qt tanks. I guess i'm going to start over a new tank for qt and keep only the fish I have, pause all my corals I have now are not going into my new tank. Wonder if I can sell them off or something. I also have three nems and two urchins that have dinos on them.


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Unread 11/20/2014, 07:38 PM   #429
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I think you misunderstood what I said lol. I was talking about the zooxanthellae in the corals, a FW dip won't get to them, they're protected by the coral, but any problem dinos inside any coral at the time will also be safe, which sucks
Symbiodinium (Zooxanthellae) live inside the cells of the animal host. They will be protected. The problem dinos do not form symbiotic relationships with inverts. They won't be protected by the animals. All the problem species you guys are dealing with (at least the one's I've gotten samples from) are free-living benthic species of dinoflagellates.

If you are concerned about the impact the fw dips will have on your livestock, you can use 1/2 strength seawater (15 ppt) instead. That will still instantly lyse the dinos, but may be gentler on your sensitive fish and inverts.


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Unread 11/20/2014, 07:52 PM   #430
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These things are tank killers im afraid of using anything thats been in the same tank.
Is there proof that freshwater dips work.


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Unread 11/21/2014, 01:05 AM   #431
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Unread 11/21/2014, 01:43 AM   #432
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I still don't know 100% if its dino or green cyano, but some of the pictures actually look like red cyano.

Sorry for the bad iphone pictures.










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Unread 11/21/2014, 01:47 AM   #433
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Cyano on top of dinos I see quite often. I can't tell for sure from your pictures if you have dinos, but it looks like it.


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Unread 11/21/2014, 06:33 AM   #434
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Symbiodinium (Zooxanthellae) live inside the cells of the animal host. They will be protected. The problem dinos do not form symbiotic relationships with inverts. They won't be protected by the animals. All the problem species you guys are dealing with (at least the one's I've gotten samples from) are free-living benthic species of dinoflagellates.

If you are concerned about the impact the fw dips will have on your livestock, you can use 1/2 strength seawater (15 ppt) instead. That will still instantly lyse the dinos, but may be gentler on your sensitive fish and inverts.
Corals are constantly taking in detritus/bacteria/etc, some of it is processed and some of it is just expelled right back out as waste. Corals also take in new symbiodinium this way, and I assume that though they do not harbor these other dinoflagellate species to harvest light that they do take them in only to expel them later, which explains why you can do a freshwater dip and place them into a sterile container and have a bloom happen in short order if conditions are met.


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Unread 11/21/2014, 08:17 AM   #435
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Ah I hadn't considered harboring of the pest through feeding. Things could definitely survive and be expelled again later.


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Unread 11/21/2014, 08:31 PM   #436
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this is mind blowingly it. I thought freshwater would kill them sounds like a third Qt is in order.

As dip them put them in new tank wait a week see if dinos appear?

I would be profanity removed and quit the hobby if it wasn't for qt. I could only imagine 3 years ago putting everything in the tank at once. Im not missing that nonsense LOL.


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Unread 11/21/2014, 08:45 PM   #437
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this is mind blowingly it. I thought freshwater would kill them sounds like a third Qt is in order.

As dip them put them in new tank wait a week see if dinos appear?

I would be so ****ed and quit the hobby if it wasn't for qt. I could only imagine 3 years ago putting everything in the tank at once. Im not missing that nonsense LOL.
Freshwater dips (or just a lower or higher salinity dip, like Pants mentioned above) kill the dinoflagellate cells that it can get to. If there are any that it does not touch, it can't hurt them.


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Unread 11/21/2014, 10:45 PM   #438
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Let's keep the language civil, please.


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Unread 11/22/2014, 07:38 PM   #439
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Subscribing to this thread. I have joined the fight. Tank is only 3 months old. Boom, I have them long stringy strands. I should be able to start a treatment round of AlgaeX next Saturday. I just wish I knew what else to do. pH is elevated to 8.2-8.45 depending on time of day, running ozone keeping redox as high as I can in this new tank (380-400), starving the fish, trying to run at most five hours of light, adding 5ml/50 gallons of MB7.


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Unread 11/23/2014, 03:05 AM   #440
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I have lots of pictures of my tank and I just vent through them.

I started reefkeeping in 2002 and did very good till end of 2005. Corals outgrew the tank and pruning was needed.
In September 2004 I moved and built a new tank. That is when dinos are first noticed from the pictures. An obvious patch on the sand.
A year later the tank was still looking glorious, but that is when it started to go down hill.
Years pass and reefkeeping is just miserable. It was very educational, but no joy.

The dinos don't bloom properly until I restart with dry rock a few years ago.
It was impossible to keep SPS corals healthy and the reason obvious.

Today I still have dions. Most of the sand is covered and about 5% of the rocks.
I thank the best coral growth for years to a new, bigger carbon reactor with much more flow than the old one.

The dinos laid low and were unnoticed for years, but I wonder how much did they have to do with my SPS problems for all this time.


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Unread 11/23/2014, 11:58 AM   #441
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So yesterday, despite the garbage weather and chilly water, I went back to the Fort Pierce Intracoastal (basically the beach that the Smithsonian Marine Station sits on) on a quest for snails (Cerith, periwinkle, nerite). There were no ceriths to be found, but I managed to collect a dozen each of periwinkles, nerites, and keyhole limpets. I grabbed a floating piece of macroalgae to put under the microscope, as I can usually find dinoflagellates stuck to things like that. This area is where I presume that my Ostreopsis population originated.

Put it under the scope, plenty of life covering it (and in just the water), but no dinoflagellates that I could find at 100x magnification.

At that time, I also took samples from my tank, a little schmutz from a couple of rocks, and I found something a little different than before. Previously, samples after my first blackout contained around 20-30 each live and dead Ostreopsis cells. The samples from yesterday contained zero dead and exactly two live cells. This could be due to the 55w UV sterilizer, or could be due to the series of 3-day blackouts I've been doing every week and a half or so. Who knows. All I know is that it makes me a bit happy to see so few of them living!


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Unread 11/24/2014, 09:16 AM   #442
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What is the CUC for this stuff?


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Unread 11/24/2014, 09:18 AM   #443
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What is the CUC for this stuff?
Dead. Dinoflagellates are toxic.


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Unread 11/24/2014, 11:25 AM   #444
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I don't know of any animal that will eat them, but there probably is one. I wouldn't bet on it being practical for use to stock, though.


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Unread 11/24/2014, 01:06 PM   #445
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I don't know of any animal that will eat them, but there probably is one. I wouldn't bet on it being practical for use to stock, though.
I actually think most filter-feeders eat them like shellfish, sponges etc.
Cyano is drawn to them and often covers dino mats on the sandbed.

My snails died first when the dinos bloomed.
I bought 10 more later when I thought it was safe.
They have multiplied to more than 100 and I have seen a snail track across a dino patch.
My snails could have built up a tolerance from low dose exposure since they don't die anymore.
I've heard that toxic Cyanobacteria don't always produce toxins and same could possibly apply to dinos.

I don't think even a colossal clean up crew could compete with a skimmer.


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Unread 11/24/2014, 01:49 PM   #446
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Is this Dino's?

I've been battling this sh!t for months, must have siphoned out bucket loads, but keeps coming back.

For some reason it seems to be on the decline, but still small patches, I always believed it to be Dino's, but just wanted to confirm.





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Unread 11/24/2014, 01:50 PM   #447
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It seems to only grown in the shadows, or overhangs, never in bright light


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Unread 11/24/2014, 02:11 PM   #448
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I actually think most filter-feeders eat them like shellfish, sponges etc.
Cyano is drawn to them and often covers dino mats on the sandbed.

My snails died first when the dinos bloomed.
I bought 10 more later when I thought it was safe.
They have multiplied to more than 100 and I have seen a snail track across a dino patch.
My snails could have built up a tolerance from low dose exposure since they don't die anymore.
I've heard that toxic Cyanobacteria don't always produce toxins and same could possibly apply to dinos.

I don't think even a colossal clean up crew could compete with a skimmer.
I agree.

I have a small triostegus that is still alive (lost more than 20 tangs and surgeonfish) and eats quite a bit of this slime. He started with small nips just from time to time, I think he has also developed something that helps keep alive. I don't think on immunity to this toxin but maybe his guts are deliberately not processing the stuff.


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Unread 11/24/2014, 07:15 PM   #449
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Here's some interesting observations. I posted earlier in this thread, that I had successfully beat my dinos, but I expected them to come back. Well they did, and I beat them again, but heres the funny thing. When the initial bloom started, I had removed my gfo, and used only large amounts of carbon to hopefully remove the toxins being released from the dead/dying dinos. I have 2-TLF phosban reactors, one for gfo and one for carbon, I simply made them both carbon. After the dinos had been gone for a few months, I decided I better put some gfo back in one of the reactors before I had a phosphate problem.
I put 1 cup of BRS gfo into one of the reactors, and within 2 days the dinos were back. They got nasty within a week, so I removed the gfo and started dosing peroxide again at 2ml/10 gal for a week, then 1.5ml/10 gal for another week. I also increased the volume of food I was feeding in an attempt to raise the nitrate levels as others have noted this helps get rid of dinos.
After 3 weeks, all the dinos were gone again. It's been a month without dinos now again, and I've got to say I'm not going to use BRS gfo again. It could be any gfo will cause the same result, and the lower nutrient levels in the tank caused the dino's to thrive due to the lack of competition from other algaes not present, I don't know. It just seems like the gfo was a major trigger in causing them to come back.
Ive been in this hobby a very long time, and I honestly can't remember many people having problems with, or having dinoflagellates at all in the past. What has changed to allow dinoflagellates to thrive in our tanks? GFO was not used then, and I'm wondering if using too much GFO and having ultra low nutrient levels in our tanks are giving the dinos everything they need to thrive, since there seems to be a very common problem with them in the last 10 years. Homemade 2 part solutions weren't really used then either, Bionic and Balance were the main solutions used, and Calcium reactors and Kalkwasser top off, were by far the most common ways used to maintain alkalinity and calcium levels.

Just my thoughts,
Leland


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Unread 11/24/2014, 07:37 PM   #450
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Ive been in this hobby a very long time, and I honestly can't remember many people having problems with, or having dinoflagellates at all in the past. What has changed to allow dinoflagellates to thrive in our tanks? GFO was not used then, and I'm wondering if using too much GFO and having ultra low nutrient levels in our tanks are giving the dinos everything they need to thrive, since there seems to be a very common problem with them in the last 10 years.
I stopped using BRS GFO recently and my dino growth is practically gone. In my limited experience back in the hobby after decades I have had nothing but problems with GFO. It messes with my PH, grows dino's like crazy and of course you can forget about growing macro algae. I'm pretty sure it ruined my coral growth and I even think it may have killed off my pods. I won't likely be bothering to try and use GFO again. The only thing I might experiment with would be an alternate and proven phosphate reducer media if that ever exists. But it really doesn't appear I need that anyway. At the end of the day there is really no substitute for keeping a healthy sand bed that is not filled with nasty detritus. And I find that I have to keep my sand bed stirred to accomplish that. At least until I can get some critters that do it well enough for me.


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