Learning/rebuilding from my epic fail

[reefmutt]

Originally Posted by westreef

Very nice top down video. White sand and rich colors of the corals, just love it.

Thanks very much Bernie. My orange spot goby works hard in that sand!

Originally Posted by Wally.B

Beautiful Vid. Absolutely Beautiful Matt!!

So how do I get my N & P up. Just Kidding

Well if things continue doing well, and you got rid of your Bubble algae and other problems, then things really worked out.

So you did use ChemiClean for the Cyano. I thought you opted for ZeoBak/Bacteria-CoralSnow gentler treatment. It's possible the chemi clean treatment be one cause of N & P increase (Certainly N). I never used the stuff so just theorizing.

Thanks Wally, I opted for the bacterial treatment for a little while but I really have no patience for cyano and I’ve used the chemi clean/rsr product enough to know how benign they are to the rest of the system.
Certainly, if one has a heavy case of cyano and it is locking up nutrients, treating for it and killing it off quickly could cause a temporary nutrient spike until the system adjusts but I just had a couple patches in my frag tank.. I feel that the spike is from the fluconazole and how it has knocked back all the algea in my system.. I’m hoping the newly added cheato will kick in soon...

Originally Posted by Rakie

Dosing Fluconazole has spiked my nutrients as well. My current no3 is at 50, po4 is at 0.80. Lots of nutrients from the dying bryopsis.

And as usual, everything looks terrible. Ship it all to me and start over, it's the only way

Wow! That’s a solid spike!
You’re right Rakie, you should definitely ship all your stuff to me and start over!
Clearly fluconazole is killing off a little more than we are completely aware of..

[illumnae]

Am I the only one not seeing any nutrient spike with fluconazole treatment? I did start up a phosphate reactor, but my nitrates remained at 0.2 and phosphate 0.01 throughout the 3 weeks and all the algae including the macroal gas in my fuge all died and rotted away.

I did continue my daily dose of Tropic Marin Bacto Balance though... maybe that helped

[Rakie]

Originally Posted by reefmutt

Wow! That’s a solid spike!
You’re right Rakie, you should definitely ship all your stuff to me and start over!
Clearly fluconazole is killing off a little more than we are completely aware of..

Yeah I typically run around 20-25 no3, so that doubled.. But po4 has increased significantly, going from about 0.10 to 0.80

Given enough time, Fluconazole will kill most non-macro algae, except bubble algae. It'll take out GHA and other tougher algae.

Also I took these pics today and you were the first person i thought of! Tough to get a clear pic of these guys in the back of the tank without a boss camera though. Well one of 'em was from the 21st, close enough! But if you look at the encrusting growth margins you can see the growth over 5 days time. Finally getting some yellow tips in.

JF Fox Flame

[codydemmel4]

I have some tough turf algae that is really getting on my nerves and I am thinking of doing the fluconazole treatment. Would you do it over again?

Did the fluconazole kill your cheato at all?

[reefmutt]

Originally Posted by illumnae

Am I the only one not seeing any nutrient spike with fluconazole treatment? I did start up a phosphate reactor, but my nitrates remained at 0.2 and phosphate 0.01 throughout the 3 weeks and all the algae including the macroal gas in my fuge all died and rotted away.

I did continue my daily dose of Tropic Marin Bacto Balance though... maybe that helped

Interesting! I wonder if I should start a thread on fluconazole experiences..
Do you use algea as a nutrient reducer?
Maybe the bacto balance did help..

Originally Posted by Rakie

Yeah I typically run around 20-25 no3, so that doubled.. But po4 has increased significantly, going from about 0.10 to 0.80

Given enough time, Fluconazole will kill most non-macro algae, except bubble algae. It'll take out GHA and other tougher algae.

Also I took these pics today and you were the first person i thought of! Tough to get a clear pic of these guys in the back of the tank without a boss camera though. Well one of 'em was from the 21st, close enough! But if you look at the encrusting growth margins you can see the growth over 5 days time. Finally getting some yellow tips in.

JF Fox Flame

Nice rich colours on that Flame! Looking good.
My p has never been as high either!

Originally Posted by codydemmel4

I have some tough turf algae that is really getting on my nerves and I am thinking of doing the fluconazole treatment. Would you do it over again?

Did the fluconazole kill your cheato at all?

My cheato didn’t completely die but it certainly has been negatively affected. It dies off in spots, periodically.. that’s why I added some new cheato from an untreated system..
if I had an outbreak of bryopsis, yes I’d use it again. For other types of algea, I’m not sure..
Cody, I forget, are you using macros for nutrient reduction?
I wonder if fluconazole has a more dramatic effect on systems that employ macro algea as nutrient control..

[Rakie]

I actually tossed my chaeto and saw improvements. The only thing I want that eats N&P is coral. Any other form of filtration besides what's in my rock and sand, is unwanted, personally.

Going simple was the best thing I ever did. If my tank warranted it, i'd probably go with a Calcium Reactor as well. But in my little spittoon sized tank, not really necessary.

[codydemmel4]

Yeah I am using the cheato as nutrient export but at this point I think I am going to go with the fluconazole as some of the turf algae is getting close to my corals.

I also want to get them out so I know exactly how high my nitrate and phosphates are as I do not want that algae soaking up the nutrients. I think with my upgraded skimmer and NOPOX, I should be able to keep my nutrients under control after I get the bad algae out of the DT. It is growing on the shells of snails too

[DiscusHeckel]

I have received a complimentary bottle of Vibrant from the UK distributor. I will experiment with it to see its impact on bryopsis and cyanobacteria. Although I can control bryopsis effectively with Brightwell Aquatics's Koral Color, I cannot eliminate it completely. If it works on bryopsis, it may well work on turf algae.

[Rakie]

Originally Posted by DiscusHeckel

I have received a complimentary bottle of Vibrant from the UK distributor. I will experiment with it to see its impact on bryopsis and cyanobacteria. Although I can control bryopsis effectively with Brightwell Aquatics's Koral Color, I cannot eliminate it completely. If it works on bryopsis, it may well work on turf algae.

Just a heads up -- people who run vibrant end up with other algae or dinos afterwards. I'm not sure why, but I've had a couple friends end up with dinos post Vibrant. And dinos can be the end of the hobby, depending on how much you have to lose.

If you see any sign of dinos abort immediately, don't let them take hold.

[DiscusHeckel]

Originally Posted by Rakie

Just a heads up -- people who run vibrant end up with other algae or dinos afterwards. I'm not sure why, but I've had a couple friends end up with dinos post Vibrant. And dinos can be the end of the hobby, depending on how much you have to lose.

If you see any sign of dinos abort immediately, don't let them take hold.

You have really scared me. I will probably not bother starting the experiment now.

[Rakie]

Originally Posted by DiscusHeckel

You have really scared me. I will probably not bother starting the experiment now.

hah, sorry man. There's a few long threads on it, in the end most of them have algae come back, and a few of my friends have had hobby-quitting levels of dinos.

I'm sure it's worked perfect for some people, ymmv and all.

[reefmutt]

I have no experience with Vibrant and know very little about it's long term effects..

Bulent, what is tour experience using Koralcolor to control bryopsis?
Back when I was using it, my bryopsis didn’t seem to mind but I wasn’t using a lot of it..

[DiscusHeckel]

Originally Posted by reefmutt

I have no experience with Vibrant and know very little about it's long term effects..

Bulent, what is tour experience using Koralcolor to control bryopsis?
Back when I was using it, my bryopsis didn’t seem to mind but I wasn’t using a lot of it..

If I dose 0.35 ml per 250 L daily it weakens bryopsis gradually and after one month or two later it disappears. I repeated this experiment on two different occasions and got the same results. On the first occasion, it took two months to get rid of it because I started off with a really small dose and it took about a month to find the ideal dose. During the dosing, I let bryopsis grow on rocks really big and then remove manually AFTER stopping all the pumps to ensure that bryopsis pieces do not move about. Then, I scrape rocks (where possible) to ensure that roots are removed too. Once bryopsis disappear, I stop dosing. My display tank has been free from bryopsis since 18th October, but some re-appeared in my weir a few weeks ago. So, Koral Color is really not a silver bullet, but it works as long as you dose at the right amount.

[Rakie]

Interesting Discus, I never heard that.

[DiscusHeckel]

Originally Posted by Rakie

Interesting Discus, I never heard that.

I hypothesised that lithium inhibits or even kill bryopsis. Here is the background that led to this hypothesis:

I have read that some folks who raised magnesium to very high level, e.g. 1500 ppm, and kept at this level for a period of time were able to remove bryopsis from their tank. However, this happened only when magnesium was raised using a specific product (Tech M). Some argued that it was not the magnesium that eradicated bryopsis and that it must have been one of the active ingredients in the said product. My further reading on this topic suggested that this active ingredient could be Lithium. Consequently, I decided to experiment with it as bryopsis was getting a little out of hand at the time in my tank.

Instead of purchasing an off-the shelf Lithium supplement, I decided to use another proprietary product called Koral Color marketed by Brightwell Aquatics. This product "encourages increased coloration through biochrome production in zooxanthellae". One of the active ingredients is Lithium. The main reason for not using a Lithium supplement directly was that I did not have enough knowledge about the safe dosing levels. On the other hand, Andrew advised me on the safe levels for Koral Color. So, I knew that my tank would be safe.

[Rakie]

Yes, Lithium is why people used Kent TechM Magnesium to kill bryopsis in the past. I didn't know that Koral Color was high in Lithium. Interesting to know!

[reefmutt]

Right.. I remember trying Tech M several years ago.
I added a dose to get to around 1600 ppm. It worked fairly well but I didn’t keep it elevated long enough and the bryopsis came back.
The next time i tried it, even at 1800 and higher, the bryopsis was unaffected.
I assumed it had built an immunity..
Bulent, are you getting the same results at the same dosage each time?

[slavetonet]

In the past - I have dose lithium up to 2000 ppm and it seems fine in my eyes.
No it didn't kill bryopsis but it did kill alot of other algae.
I dose trace elements of RA prior to adding lithium.

[reefmutt]

Well, with fluconazole, I wouldn’t bother with lithium anymore..

So, here’s a photo dump..
I took some ‘artsy fartsy’ shots under actinics and blue LEDs with some colour correction.
Lots of talk and not a lot of porn, so here it is..

24k:

Red planet against 24k

Not sure what this coral is..

Su!!

Pink Cadillac wannabe..

Close up of OP

One more OP


That was fun!


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[tenurepro]

Great pics... do you use lens port?


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[reefmutt]

Originally Posted by tenurepro

Great pics... do you use lens port?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thank you. No, not really. I just use a plexiglass viewing box and I rest the lens of my camera on the bottom of the box..

[DiscusHeckel]

Originally Posted by reefmutt

Right.. I remember trying Tech M several years ago.
I added a dose to get to around 1600 ppm. It worked fairly well but I didn’t keep it elevated long enough and the bryopsis came back.
The next time i tried it, even at 1800 and higher, the bryopsis was unaffected.
I assumed it had built an immunity..
Bulent, are you getting the same results at the same dosage each time?

Yes, I am, Matt. On two occasions, it took roughly one month to show positive effects. After that I stopped dosing until the algae appear again.

[DiscusHeckel]

Originally Posted by reefmutt

Red planet against 24k

This photo is stunning.

I never understood why this coral is named as "red" as it is unmistakably pink. Is it my eyes? its Latin name, A. hyacinthus, clearly removes this ambiguity.

[reefmutt]

Thanks Bulent!!
Pink yes. Polyps more reddish pink I suppose.
But, really, there is little explanation for most common names.

[glaukos]

Ridiculous...just ridiculous...the health your corals have...the photo and reef skills you have matt
Today was a day that i had plans for a 50% WC and a huge aquascape change and maaaan i was sooo bored...
I thought i should "steal" some time by checking RC
Opened your thread,saw these pics and before i knew it i put my phone down and started working with my tank.
Thanks for the boost bud