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Old 06/16/2010, 12:29 AM   #126
clayw
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so josh, why would you want a car? or a stove in your home? or a case of beer? or fast food? or a fire place? or, or, or, or, or, or, or.....


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Old 09/23/2010, 03:36 PM   #127
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...or a wife!


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Old 09/23/2010, 03:39 PM   #128
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Just kidding honey! You know I love you, (and I know you'll read this.)


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Old 09/24/2010, 10:17 AM   #129
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why do people have such a psychosis over things they dont understand.


every one of the posters in this thread meets other people every day and yet they get terrorfied over something that cant walk and has rudimentary brain functions. you know the people you meet everyday could kill you...and there isnt anywhere to run as humans have taken over every environ -land, air, sea and space.


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Old 09/24/2010, 04:34 PM   #130
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Your argument doesn't make much sense, it's the octopus natural instinct to attack when is feels threatened. Humans are able to restrain themselves, and don't kill you when they feel bad.
It's like you saying, go ahead go swim with crocodiles, we swim with humans who can kill us, so why not swim with them?


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Old 09/27/2010, 04:35 PM   #131
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Your argument doesn't make much sense, it's the octopus natural instinct to attack when is feels threatened. Humans are able to restrain themselves, and don't kill you when they feel bad.
It's like you saying, go ahead go swim with crocodiles, we swim with humans who can kill us, so why not swim with them?
I loled
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Old 09/29/2010, 12:59 PM   #132
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There are lots of things in the ocean that can kill or injure you just as there are dangers in the city, desert or high mountains. Each environment has its own unique set of hazards. Some of those environments, because we frequent them often, do not seem particularly dangerous. We recognize and understand the risks and how to avoid them. I would venture to guess that most people who visit this thread know that Hapalochlaena can kill humans and have a basic understanding of how not to be envenomated. It is the person who has never heard of or seen a blue-ring that concerns me - whether that contact comes on a beach in Sydney or in a friends aquarium in Chicago.

Posting lots of gloom and doom warnings on lists such as this one doesn't do much to reach the uninformed. Perhaps the hype will lead a few aquarists to not purchase a blue-ring or if they do, to take steps to secure the octopus from the curious hands of the neighbor child. I hope so.

As a professor and chair of an academic department, I am legally required to inform my students of potential dangers working in the lab or in the field. Last week we sent a class of 22 undergraduates to a field station in French Polynesia for three monthsto study island biology including the marine realm. I spent two hours showing them a PowerPoint of the dangers they might encounter ranging from deadly sponges to sharks, cubomedusae to stonefish. Will they all remain safe? Almost certainly not. There will be the odd sea urchin wound, coral cut, or stingray stab. It happens with every class every year. However, hopefully no one will put a textile cone in their pocket or pick up a sea snake. We can warn against obvious dangers and instill a certain degree of caution. Fortunately, blue-rings don't occur in Moorea, so I can leave that one off the list, but if they did, I would include them in the lecture along with lots of photos, instructions on what to do if bitten. and a stern warning that these things can kill you in a few minutes.

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Old 10/03/2010, 10:23 PM   #133
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Me too. And a link to where these are listed on CITIES.
blue ring octopus's illegal?? Yeah and spiders are illegal too.... the only law here in omaha concerning any dangerous animals is in regards to wild cats, snakes over 8' and exotic animals(lions tigers elephants etc....)

people keep, scorpios, venomous snakes, spiders, stone fish, lionfish, bla bla bla


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Old 10/03/2010, 10:35 PM   #134
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why would you want something that could kill you??
Im pretty sure if you have a reef tank period theres something in there that could kill you, via bacteria, palytoxin etc , your furnace ca kill you, the food you eat can kill you.... its just a matter of how smart you are and if you have common sense, if you stick your hand in the tank and throw it around sure it will bite you, common sense.... dont stick your hands in the tank.... its not like the things going to crawl out of the tank at night and come bite you in your sleep....... here in omaha we have brown recluse spiders that can crawl into your bed at night and kill you over a period of time after your flesh eats itself, common sense people................ its like saying...geez i dont want a stove in my house.....it could burn me and kill me....


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Old 10/03/2010, 10:46 PM   #135
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Salmonella is a different concern from venom.
Octos routinely get out of tanks that are not 'octo proofed' and can be found a good distance from their aquaria. Getting back might be another story.
they might be able to climb and "fall" out of there tank and wander a little ways from the tank to die... its not like they are running around your house looking for people to bite.... for the story that one climbs out and into another tank across the roof and then back to its home tank....... yeah ....ok.....


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Old 10/07/2010, 12:19 PM   #136
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Your argument doesn't make much sense, it's the octopus natural instinct to attack when is feels threatened. Humans are able to restrain themselves, and don't kill you when they feel bad.
It's like you saying, go ahead go swim with crocodiles, we swim with humans who can kill us, so why not swim with them?
then take the prison population. whats it at now? 8mil? thats an army and theyve shown how good at how people can restrain themselves.

its just irritating how much mystic/monster-like crap comes up with them. reread some of the thread, people saying how dare you own one etc.


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Old 10/07/2010, 03:35 PM   #137
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It is produced in their saliva and injected when they bite.
What happens with the animal that eats them? would they die too?


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Old 10/07/2010, 06:27 PM   #138
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What happens with the animal that eats them? would they die too?
i think theres a big difference between poison in the blood stream and poison in the stomach/digestive system, i dont think it would kill an animal but would probably make it sick by eating it. Im probably wrong though


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Old 10/08/2010, 08:11 PM   #139
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What happens with the animal that eats them? would they die too?
Probably not. An animal that would eat a blue ringed ocotopus would probably have evolved over time to be able to do so. There are tons of poisonous/venemous animals that are eaten by other animals.

Off the top of my head, snakes eat poisonous dart frogs. And aren't scorpions munched on by certain animals?


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Old 10/08/2010, 11:02 PM   #140
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Probably not. An animal that would eat a blue ringed ocotopus would probably have evolved over time to be able to do so. There are tons of poisonous/venemous animals that are eaten by other animals.

Off the top of my head, snakes eat poisonous dart frogs. And aren't scorpions munched on by certain animals?
Hmm I was wondering because If some animal eats it, It HAS to encounter the poison in some time during eating it. I saw this video too so thats why I was thinking about it. You can see it getting dark blue and its probably attacking too..



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Old 10/10/2010, 11:12 AM   #141
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Probably not. An animal that would eat a blue ringed ocotopus would probably have evolved over time to be able to do so. There are tons of poisonous/venemous animals that are eaten by other animals.

Off the top of my head, snakes eat poisonous dart frogs. And aren't scorpions munched on by certain animals?
only 3 different poison dart frogs that are deadly. that is out of over 200. the rest supposedly just numb you or cause your mouth to burn. also its only the mucous the frog excretes that is poisonous. also the frog does not produce the toxins itself. the toxins come from plants that their foods have eaten. in captivity they loose this


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Old 11/19/2010, 06:26 PM   #142
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I had no idea how deadly these are.


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Old 11/24/2010, 08:50 AM   #143
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There is a vid on youtube of a mantis destroying one... just an FYI


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Old 11/25/2010, 12:39 PM   #144
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they might be able to climb and "fall" out of there tank and wander a little ways from the tank to die... its not like they are running around your house looking for people to bite....
They can get out and live for a surprisingly long time and can travel for a surprisingly long distance. Of course they aren't looking for people to bite, but other pets do find them, as do kids, as do loved ones who pick them up to put them back in the tank for you.


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Old 11/25/2010, 01:41 PM   #145
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then take the prison population. whats it at now? 8mil? thats an army and theyve shown how good at how people can restrain themselves.

its just irritating how much mystic/monster-like crap comes up with them. reread some of the thread, people saying how dare you own one etc.
Who cares if someone wants to keep them, its their own business. I'm not crying about anything. I'm just saying your argument doesn't make any sense. Looking at the prison population isn't a very good argument either, the US is the only first world country with a prison population that big, smoking marijuana or selling orchids without proper permits is completely different from killing someone.


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Old 11/25/2010, 10:52 PM   #146
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This is a little off topic but I here is a video of me being a dumb American in OZ. I didnt know what a blue ring octo was until after I shot this video. We played with it for at least 20 minutes before letting it crawl back into its shell and putting the shell back where it was. I guess it does show that they arent just going to kill you if you come in contact with them though.

Looking back at it I see how dumb we really were so you dont have to tell me.






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Old 11/25/2010, 11:14 PM   #147
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interesting thread. I prefer not to keep things I do not think I can keep alive, and, at this point, octopus certainly fall into that category. In my opinion, you can not understand the allure of keeping a venomous animal unless you just automatically get it. I strongly disagree with keeping any deadly venomous animals in a home environment. There is simply way too many things that can go wrong. The almost infinite number of complications that can occur in the average life put way too many "innocents" at risk. Even if you are a complete loner, you still could die suddenly and some unsuspecting person is going to have to clean up your house/apartment.

I have some experience with keeping "hot" snakes. Any venomous animal is going to be very efficient at delivering its venom. You do not get to learn from experience. One simple, small mistake and you get to have a very bad day at best. If you have no experience working with venomous animals or at the least aggressive dangerous marine life then IMO a deadly octopus could present a fairly steep learning curve. I always try and think how it would effect my loved ones when I am considering doing something with some probability of death. However, anyone that decides to keep these in a home environment is fine by me. My only objection would be having to have us as "society" absorb the lifeflight, the ICU stay, etc... if a bite did occur.


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Old 11/26/2010, 01:59 PM   #148
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You were lucky because this female Hapalochlaena fasciata was brooding eggs in her web and from my experience with is when blue-rings are particularly aggressive.

Roy


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Old 11/27/2010, 04:24 AM   #149
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Interesting, what people will do for a dollar no?

I cant see that holding up in a court but anyway. I bet the new owner has no idea how deadly it is.

Pass him this, they might the information one day.



General Information:

With a beak that can penetrate a wet-suit, they are one little cute creature to definitely look at BUT Don't touch.

The bite might be painless, but this octopus injects a neuromuscular paralysing venom. The venom contains some maculotoxin, a poison more violent than any found on land animals. The nerve conduction is blocked and neuromuscular paralysis is followed by death. The victim might be saved if artificial respiration starts before marked cyanosis and hypotension develops. The blue-ringed octopus is the size of a golf ball but its poison is powerful enough to kill an adult human in minutes. There's no known antidote. The only treatment is hours of heart massage and artificial respiration until the poison has worked its way out of your system.

The venom contains tetrodotoxin, which blocks sodium channels and causes motor paralysis and occasionally respiratory failure. Though with fixed dilated pupils, the senses of the patients are often intact. The victims are aware but unable to respond.

Although the painless bite can kill an adult, injuries have only occurred when an octopus has been picked out of its pool and provoked or stepped on.

SYMPTOMS

*

Onset of nausea.
*

Hazy Vision. ( Within seconds you are blind.)
*

Loss of sense of touch, speech and the ability to swallow.
*

Within 3 minutes, paralysis sets in and your body goes into respiratory arrest.

The poison is not injected but is contained in the octopus's saliva, which comes from two glands each as big as its brain. Poison from the one is used on its main prey, crabs, and is relatively harmless to humans. Poison from the other gland serves as defense against predators. The blue-ringed octopus either secretes the poison in the vicinity of its prey, waits until it is immobile and then devours it, or it jumps out and envelops the prey in its 8 tentacles and bites it.


First Aid

First aid for blue-ringed octopus bites

Pressure-immobilization is a recommended first aid. Prolonged artificial respiration may also be required. May require supportive treatment including mechanical ventilation until the effects of the toxin disappear. There is no antivenin available in Australia.
Mouth to mouth resuscitation can keep the victim alive and the poison gradually wears off after 24 hrs, apparently leaving no side effects.
This all sounds like a great high I once had of off some salvia.


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Old 12/06/2010, 10:46 AM   #150
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The issue as to whether or not keep dangerous animals comes up frequently in the reptile community, partially because of the rampant phobias surrounding snakes and the like.

IME, there are two reasons people keep dangerous animals:

1.) They are compensating for some inequity in their own life and feel the need to show off (same reason some folks drive Hummers, lol).

2.) They have a genuine curiosity as to the behaviors exhibited by a dangerous creature (venomous animals know they're venomous and behave differently).

Often times, folks convince them its number #2 when deep down its #1. The question people have to ask is what level of inherent risk they are willing to tolerate. Not necessarily for themselves, but for loved ones. For example, an escaped octopus might be irresistible to a pet dog or God forbid a young child.

I worked with a few professors and have spend many hours catching and tagging rattlesnakes and even kept a few personal specimens. They are fascinating creatures with a very high level of awareness when compared to many other snakes. However, when my babies were born, the inherent risk was too high and off they went. No cool animal is worth the risk, especially ones that are adept at escape.


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