Ainara's reef - Work in progress

[kainic]

Hi,

As many of you have done previously, I’m starting this thread to have a log on the progress of my reef tank and to look for some advice from all of you. It’s an open letter to discharge my thinkings.

Specs:
Red Sea Reefer 350 (73g display + 18g sump)
Pacific Sun Pandora Hyperion S (2*145w LED + 4*39W T5)
Skimmer Nyos Quantum 160
2* Tunze Turbelle Nanostream 6095 + 1* Tunze Turbelle Nanostream 6045 + Tunze 7096 Multicontroller
Eheim Compact 3000+ return pump

Livestock:
1* Ctenochaetus Strigosus
3* Pseudanthias dispar
2* Amphiprion ocellaris
1* Synchiropus picturatus
1* Nemateleotris magnifica
1* Priolepis nocturna
4* Clibanarius tricolor
several Astraea snails
3* Turbo fluctuosus
1* Holothuria edulis
3* Entacmaea quadricolor
1* Tridacna crocea

I’ll start from the beginning. I set up the aquarium on September 2015 with cured pukani dry rock and 22 pounds of live rock from my previous 20g tank. I added a 8*4*4 Marinepure block to the sump and some chaeto.
From the beginning I’ve been battling high nitrates (not phosphates) and this is what has impulsed me to post here with my complete setup. I’ve been dosing ProBio S and –NP Pro for a while but my nitrate readings kept beeing really high (>25ppm). I also added Biopellets and kept there for months. I tried vinegar and I tried vodka. Nothing, And I also tried everything at the same time and nothing. My nitrates have never been lower than 10 and I got them lower than 25 only thanks to NOPOX.

I’m feeding 1 frozen cube twice per day. I’m dosing AF Amino Mix, AF Vitality, AF, Build and AF Energy. “Why are you dosing with these nitrate levels?” you may ask, “just reduce your feedings” you may say. I’ve been there I’ve done that. My corals died one after another until I started to feed more and dosed AF products. Untill then, my corals had a 1 month life span, nowadays I’ve not lost a single coral for months (well, my LPS all died but that’s another story I guess). For me, everything indicates my corals were starving to death. Now I’m in a position where I can keep brown (or not so coloured) corals and that’s way better than seeing your corals die but I want to move to the next step, keeping colorful SP corals. I’m gonna describe the current state of the tank and my dosing schedules.

Alk: 7.5 dKH (rock steady)
Ca: 420 ppm
Mg: 1275 ppm
K: 400 ppm
PO4: 0.02 ppm
NO3: 25 ppm

Fistful of carbon in a mesh mixed with fistful of zeolites.
Marinepure 8*4*4 block in low flow.
2 filter socks changed every other day.
10ml of NOPOX daily.
25ml of Components +1,+2,+3 daily
3 drops of Kalium daily
1 drop of Iodum daily
2 drops of AF Amino Mix e/o day
2 drops of AF Vitality e/o day
3 drops of AF Build e/o day
2 drops of AF Energy e/o day
20 drops of AF Phyto Mix e/o day
1 frozen cube twice per day


I started to see some growth on fast grower (pest) species like Seriatopora caliendrum and Montipora capricornis but no way the growth you would expect.
On a side note, I’ve never had an algae problem. I’ve had some on powerhead cords but nowhere else.

What would you do if you were in my situation? I want my corals to grow and I want my corals to develop nice colours. Should I chase numbers? I’d be überhappy if my nitrates were 25 and my corals were growing like mad and with vivid colors, but it’s not the case.

And there goes the question is killing me: Can we have high nitrate readings but low nutrients? I’ve always read that with high nitrate levels corals have more food than they need but it seems this is not my case.

LONG STORY MADE SHORT: I don’t understand my reef. Please help me to do so.

Yours sinc… desperately,

Sergi

PS: Feel free to correct my spelling or grammar. It's been a long time since I studied english.

[Zweebe]

Hey Sergi,

is your rate of No3 25ppm now? Cause it could be your problem !

Try to correct this with carbon sourcing ;-) Maybe add vodka/Vinegar/Sugar should help it !

And be patient, patience is the magical key in this Hobby!

Can we see pictures of your tank and corals?

[reefmutt]

Hey Sergi, you are in a bit of an odd pinch. Usually doing the amount of carbon dosing you are doing lowers nitrates but phosphates stay stubbornly high.
You have the reverse problem.. You have almost no p but n is a problem.
I think you are in a good starting position.
Which test kits do you use?
Is it possible that you actually have no po4 at all in the system?
That could explain struggling corals, no algae, and hard to control nitrates....

[kainic]

Originally Posted by Zweebe

Hey Sergi,

is your rate of No3 25ppm now? Cause it could be your problem !

Try to correct this with carbon sourcing ;-) Maybe add vodka/Vinegar/Sugar should help it !

And be patient, patience is the magical key in this Hobby!

Can we see pictures of your tank and corals?

My last readings are:

NO3: 25 ppm (Salifert)
PO4: 0.03 ppm / 10 ppb (Hanna ULR Phosphorous)

I am dosing 9-10ml of NOPOX daily since 2nd of June. I've been really an impatient reefer but I've calmed down a bit and try to change things very slowly. My next step will be adding 3l of Siporax to my sump (it should arrive today).

This is my last FTS. Please be kind with my almost empty reef tank. I'm slowly stocking it as I don't want to rush and lose half of the corals, I've been there.

Originally Posted by reefmutt

Hey Sergi, you are in a bit of an odd pinch. Usually doing the amount of carbon dosing you are doing lowers nitrates but phosphates stay stubbornly high.
You have the reverse problem.. You have almost no p but n is a problem.
I think you are in a good starting position.
Which test kits do you use?
Is it possible that you actually have no po4 at all in the system?
That could explain struggling corals, no algae, and hard to control nitrates....

I use Salifert for everything but phosphates which I'm using Hanna ULR Phosphorous. My phosphate are low (0.03 ppm last reading, ranging 0.01-0.03), but low enough to be limiting my NO3 export? What would you recommend me to increase phosphates in a "natural" way? Recently I'm in the need to clean my front glass every other day (I used to clean it twice per week at most) and my skimmate is greener so something is happening. I've also set my skimmer to dry mode.

As I don't want my corals to starve (yeah, even with NO3 at 25 ppm I've seen them starving to death, maybe because low PO4 as Matt is pointing) I'm also feeding about 4ml of pappone once per week. I know it doesn't help with my nitrates but if I'm albe to keep them not higher than 25 I'm happy. As I said, I prefer alive brownish corals than corals dying trying to make them look cool.

[reefmutt]

I guess the most natural way to increase p would be to add a couple more fish..
And/or add a second feeding of Pappone..
I think the addition of the matrix is a good idea..
What's your lighting schedule and intensities for the leds and the t5?
Your po4 numbers are within the margin of error for that checker...
My personal favorite po4 test kit is the Elos High resolution po4 test kit. I find it to be more reliable and way more consistent than the checker type electronic test kits...

[kainic]

Originally Posted by reefmutt

I guess the most natural way to increase p would be to add a couple more fish..
And/or add a second feeding of Pappone..
I think the addition of the matrix is a good idea..
What's your lighting schedule and intensities for the leds and the t5?
Your po4 numbers are within the margin of error for that checker...
My personal favorite po4 test kit is the Elos High resolution po4 test kit. I find it to be more reliable and way more consistent than the checker type electronic test kits...

I'm running Bali program on LEDs which turn on at 8:12am and off at 8:20pm at 75% intensity. My T5 are running from 10:30am to 7:30pm and from 11:30am to 6:30pm (2 bulbs each).

I'll try with pappone twice per week.

Let me post some pictures (the not so horrible ones).

Pavona cactus (I love this coral). I will take some pictures with a DSLR in a near future. This is taken with my Galaxy S5.


Bird of paradise. This is one of my very last additions.


Blame the top-down box. Horrible picture of a very nice coral to have, Montipora confusa.


This is the closest thing to acro porn from my tank, I'd say is acro petting. But hey, it's mine and I like it!


Not everything is corals in a reef tank! This is my Priolepis nocturna, I wouldn't say is uncommon but not many reefers include them in their tanks. Majestic way of swimming.


One of my three Pseudanthias dispar. Voracious eaters, easy to keep and small enough for my tank.


I hope you enjoy my pretty modest reef tank.

[kainic]

Done. 3l of Siporax added to the sump.

[reefmutt]

Very nice and neat!
Curious to see how it affects your system in a few months.

[Klaasebaas]

M


Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk

[kainic]

Time for an update.

I didn't like the way my tank was going so I decided to change some things.

I stopped dosing Nopox. I stopped dosing AF aminos, vitamins and coral food.

I'm now using Tropic Marin NP Bacto Balance. As I said in previous posts, although having high nitrates, my tank has always behavied as if it was low in nutrients. I've lost several corals (lps and sps) chasing numbers. I've always wondered if I was starving my tank (even with high readings) with nopox. Bacto Balance is more gentle than nopox and it is designed to avoid zero nutrients, I see it as a safer approach to nutrient control.
I'm actually in my 12 day and started with very low dose (0.3ml daily in a 300 litres net volume) as per Discus instructions. He advised me to forget about testing for several weeks and just look at the tank and its inhabitants.
First thing to notice is dirtier front glass. I was cleaning it once or twice per week before and now I'm doing it every 36h aprox. My sand was so clean that my sea cucumber was starving and I had to put him in sump, now is in display again as my sand is now dirtier. You may think "what a mess". No way. My tank looks better than ever. Everything looks healthier than before and there no sign of starvation in any coral, at least not as much as before. Tissue is thicker and colors are improving.
Not a single algae in tank, even stopping nopox and going slow with Bacto Balance. On monday I'll increase Bacto Balance dose to 0.4ml per day.

Now its time for some pictures.

These are my latest additions








Thanks for reading.

[reefmutt]

Very nice, Sergi! Very good choice. The corals look happy and healthy and with Bulent to guide you, I'm sure you will have great success with the Bacto balance.
The base of the second coral looks a bit funny to me. You might want to have a very close look for pests on that one.
Will you, in the future, use Tropic Marin elements as well?

[kainic]

Hey Matt!

What do you mean by funny?



This is when it entered my tank three weeks ago. As you can see, I discarded the base and it's now encrusting (sloooooowly). I'm guilty of not having a quarantine tank nor protocol but I use to inspect and dip them. My fear is no kill the coral by putting it in a qt tank or by dipping it too harshly. If I'm barely keeping corals alive in my display, how may they do in a qt tank.
I know, a wrong thinking but with my current coral load, I prefer taking the risk.

Bülent is so meticulous and precise when he writes a post that I just fell in love with him (in a hobbist way of falling in love with someone, I mean, well, you know what I mean *cough*).

[reefmutt]

. Ahem... I may be guilty of having a slight man crush on Bulent, as well.
Maybe it's just how new the frag is but the base just looks a little blotchy like bite marks.. But the photo isn't perfectly clear so it's hard to tell. Maybe it's nothing.
What do use as a dip?

[kainic]

I'm using Coral Protec. I'm trying hard to get Bayer but I can't find here in Spain, and postage is prohibitively expensive.

I don't know if I'll be using Tropic Marin elements. I'm currently using Aquaforest Component 123 and beside it's price, I'm happy with it. If I ever go for a Randy-Holmes 2 part route, I may try TM elements.

[kainic]

Time for an update of my journal. My tank is no longer a cemetry and this is thanks to Tropic Marin Bacto Balance in my modest opinion.
I've been increasing its dose biweekly and I'm currently dosing 1ml per day. My nitrates are still high (even higher) and my phosphates are still low but everything looks happy enough to be proud of it.
I've done several changes. I've discontinued using aquaforest line except for Kalium.
I've even changed my salt, was using AF Reef salt and now using Red Sea Salt (blue bucket). I had some weird test results for my fresh made saltwater and wanted to try with a different salt.
I've discontinued my Camponents +1+2+3 and put a Korallin c1502 calcium reactor. Easy to set up and simple enough to avoid failures due to complexity.
I've also increased flow in the tank. Added 2x tunze 6040 to my 2 tunze 6095 and 1 tunze 6045. Now there's a lot of flow, but more important, there's a BETTER flow.
My battle against nitrates is not over, I've been defeated in every battle I've fought but the war is not over. I'm still having 3l of siporax in the sump and added biopellets xl in a media mesh. My next step is dosing phosphates using Brightwell Neophos, we'll see if I'm po4 limited.

Some corals are showing nice growth, really nice if you come from a 0 growth state.

Some pictures taken with a galaxy s5:

Acropora florida


Acropora echinata


Some growth shots:

SSC



Red planet



Pavona cactus




It's more than 3 months of growth.

[kevlow]

Your corals are showing improved colors and appear healthy looking as well as getting some growth.

I too, greatly admire Bulent's tank. Beautiful corals and he states his methods very clearly.

Question. When you were using AF Comp123 did you also use the NP Pro and Pro Bio S?

I would like to know if it is possible to use Comp123, Pro Bio S, and NP Pro along with Bacto Balance.

[kainic]

Originally Posted by kevlow

Your corals are showing improved colors and appear healthy looking as well as getting some growth.

I too, greatly admire Bulent's tank. Beautiful corals and he states his methods very clearly.

Question. When you were using AF Comp123 did you also use the NP Pro and Pro Bio S?

I would like to know if it is possible to use Comp123, Pro Bio S, and NP Pro along with Bacto Balance.

Hey Kevin nice to see you here. I've dosed comp123 and ProBioS+NPPro at the same time but I stopped using ProBioS and NPPro a while ago to try with NOPOX as a carbon source.
TM Bacto Balance has organic carbon so it is a carbon supply but not as strong as NOPOX for example. I don't think Bacto Balance and NPPro or bacteria are incompatible but you will have to find the sweet spot between them as you'll be using 2 different carbon sources at the same time. I'm using biopellets and bacto balance but I'm underdosing both of them.

One of major changes I've seen in the tank when using bacto balance is on LPS. Not only I'm able to keep them (they all died except for a hammer) but they gained color and polyp extension, they look happier now.

[reefmutt]

Hey Sergi glad to see your tank is doing better. I also went to the RS blue bucket for my recovery.
Doesn't the bacto balance contain some phosphate? Isn't that part of how it balances the nutrients? I'm really not sure..
Why not just increase bacto balance and move away from the pellets? It's clear by looking at Bulent's tank that the bacto balance can do the job nicely.
It's just that you are using two methods of nutrient control already and you are about to add another 'wildcard' with the neophos..
Just seems to me like you are getting more complicated to achieve an outcome that could probably be achieved by going the other way and simply using the bacto balance..

[kainic]

Originally Posted by reefmutt

Hey Sergi glad to see your tank is doing better. I also went to the RS blue bucket for my recovery.
Doesn't the bacto balance contain some phosphate? Isn't that part of how it balances the nutrients? I'm really not sure..
Why not just increase bacto balance and move away from the pellets? It's clear by looking at Bulent's tank that the bacto balance can do the job nicely.
It's just that you are using two methods of nutrient control already and you are about to add another 'wildcard' with the neophos..
Just seems to me like you are getting more complicated to achieve an outcome that could probably be achieved by going the other way and simply using the bacto balance..

Greetings Matt!

Bacto balance does contain phosphates as well as nitrates. You are right, maybe I should stay safe and keep using only TM Bacto Balance but I'm trying to find out if I really do have high nitrates or I'm just having high readings on tests (is not exactly the same).
If I do really have those high nitrate levels (50ppm) there's something that don't let me reduce 'em. My theory is that I'm phosphate limited. Prior to using Bacto Balance I was so phosphate limited that things just kept dying in my tank. Now, phosphates coming from Bacto Balance are enough for the corals to survive but not enough to reduce my nitrates, that's why I want to dose Neophos. Makes any sense? Maybe biopellets is what has no sense in the equation.
If I'm in the other possibility, not really having that high nitrates, just false high readings, dosing Neophos should imbalance my system towards cyanobacteria (which is not present now).
You, the experienced reefers wouldn't need to do this tests, because you know how your corals look with high nitrates, low phosphates or whatever the nutrients are. That's not my case, I have nothing to compare. I don't know if the color of my corals is the best (or close at least) it could be. I don't know if my brown, static corals are still recovering of the distress suffered and they will color up eventually.

I'll try to take some decent pictures with my dslr this week, so that you can see the colors.

[reefmutt]

You mentioned that you are underdosing bactobalance. You also mention that since starting bactobalance, your corals have begun to turn around..
Why not up the dosage? Since it contains po4, I would assume that using more will add the po4 you may lack.. you may not need the neophos at all..
Maybe with a full dose of bactobalance and some time, it will do its job and balance things out..
I'm not sure what you mean that your test says 50ppm N but it may not really be 50ppm..
Do you think your test kit is faulty?

[kainic]

This is the intent of my journal. Sometimes we need somebody to keep us focused and stop brainstorming.
I'm dosing 1ml per day and maximum recommended dose is 1.5ml. I'll keep increasing the dose every 2 weeks to reach maximum dose.
Thank you Matt for the advice.

[reefmutt]

Sergi, I hope it works for you.
You should ask Bulent for advice on dosing. He really is an expert and a wealth of generous knowledge.

[kainic]

This is my new acquisition. Liking angelfishes but I don't wanna play the nipping roulette so I went safe and went for a Genicanthus Melanospilos. It's bigger than I'd prefer and due to its size my Ctenochaetus strigosus has enabled its battle mode. I had to use a mirror for the first 12 hours to mitigate aggression. Beautiful and voracious eater.



My current stocklist is:

2x Amphiprion ocellaris
1x Synchiropus picturatus
1x Ctenochaetus strigosus
1x Nemateleotris decora
3x Pseudanthias dispar
1x Priolepis nocturna
1x Elacatinus oceanops
1x Genicanthus melanospilos

Next step is to cover the tank and keep some flasher or fairy wrasses.

My Acropora prolifera when I got it.


and now


A more decent picture of my Acropora florida


I have to glue some corals to its final place and I'll update with a FTS (not as full as all of your tanks but certainly not as empty as it has been in the past).

[reefmutt]

Beautiful fish. It certainly shouldn't bother the corals.

[markalot]

Looking good.

Bacto balance sure is an interesting product, I like the way it provides PO4 and NO3 to make sure the tank doesn't starve. I have yet to find it available in the states.