Through the Looking Glass

[reefmutt]

Mark, I could look at photos of that uop and that pf week after week!
Amazing.
Now, can we have a reality check and see those two under all your lighting?
How high up do you keep the Pink Floyd? Or how much light does it get?

[watchguy123]

Originally Posted by reefmutt

Mark, I could look at photos of that uop and that pf week after week!
Amazing.
Now, can we have a reality check and see those two under all your lighting?
How high up do you keep the Pink Floyd? Or how much light does it get?

Grhhh...., I just took my bunch of coral pictures and now you want one more. Okay, since you are one of the few reefers that follows my thread, I will oblige you. I was just at Reefapalooza in Southern California, and I can tell you that there was not a metal halide bulb to be found anywhere. i certainly did not see even a T5 over a coral vendors tank. It is all leds and very blue. Perhaps the most positive thing that I have noticed is the newer LEDS still give a lot of pop but seem to have substantially removed the windex-look from the tank.

I actually have two colonies of the RR USA Pink Floyd, one is up very high and one is below half way point. There really seems to be no difference in color, growth or polyp extension.

So here is a side by side of Blue led as compared to a metal halide only. They are not perfectly identical angles, but I got pretty close for a guy that has to climb on to a ladder to get a shot of his corals. Finally, I must be one of the last reefers to still have metal halides. Neither picture is a poor representation of what is seen. Both pictures simply represent the same coral under different lights. If you don't have metal halides, you will never see the lower picture, it is the palest vision of this coral.

[Pife]

I'd really be interested in a run down of all your equipment and fish and total gallons ect.. What type of flow, basically what you use and how you use it.

I really like the difference between the led picture and the mh picture. Both look amazing.

[reefmutt]

Thanks for the mh shot, Mark. Still a stunning coral. And as usual, exceptionally clear, crisp and well lit shots.. these aren't done on a phone app like mine.. these are better. The editing is nutso.. You must use Lightroom or some such serious photo editing. I would love to know how to use desktop editing instead of snapseed, it is easier to use but does not produce as sophisticated results..
Are you shooting through the front glass for these?

That's quite amazing about RAP SoCal.
Leds are certainly the way of the future, but they are also changing the way we interact with and evaluate corals..
And being old school, I'm not sure how I feel about it..Yet, at the same time I am so tempted to go all led..
When I go into my favourite sps shop, I have to ask him to tune his radion g4s to less blue and more "realistic" led colour palette so that I can evaluate the corals I'm thinking of buying and better discern what they will look like under my lights.
Before leds, you could look at a coral and with some experience, be able to anticipate what it may turn into in your tank, after some time.
Looking at corals glowing all crazy coloured under leds, it is not very easy to know what it can or will look like at home.
In terms of 'reality' - the colour rendering ability of a light source- leds suck big time. Coming from mh and fluorescent lighting, I have spent 20 years looking at what corals actually look like under 'normal' lighting..
Leds used to try to replicate this but now they are so good that they can make a basic coral look like a magical gem from an alternate universe. I think this is good and bad... maybe more good.. the whole point of this hobby has changed from keeping corals happy and healthy to making them look as good as they can..
I'm not saying this is necessarily a bad thing.. once leds take over for real, everybody will be looking at coral through the led lens and i guess at that point we will evaluate our coral purchases based on the crazy colours of led light.. and what we will be able to do with them under our crazy led lights..
.. I'm not really sure what I'm trying to say here.. I guess its a bit of a philosophical thought..
I guess it's that when you go down the led rabbit hole, everything changes and a new reality sets in.. and not necessarily a bad one..

[kenneth wolfe]

Well put, 100% correct..nice post

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[watchguy123]

Originally Posted by Pife

I'd really be interested in a run down of all your equipment and fish and total gallons ect.. What type of flow, basically what you use and how you use it.

I really like the difference between the led picture and the mh picture. Both look amazing.

I have a 180 bow front tank with a sump and refugium. I use a reefflo dart/snapper return pump which provides a great deal of circulation. I use one maxspect gyre and it is phenomenal. I utilize pretty much all the basic stuff, protein skimmer, ATO, Calcium reactor, multiple heaters, chiller, just switched to a kessil H350 over the refugium which really exploded chaeto growth. I use socks changed out atleast once and preferably twice a week (BRS in one of their videos says it really reduces nitrates with twice a week sock replacement), I added siporax I think last year and love it ( think it is a big step forward in nutrient management). My lights are an old geissman metal halide (3 x 250 watt Radium bulbs) and t5 unit (four 80 watt blue plus bulbs) and I supplement with Reefbrite blue XHO's for dawn/dusk. I just love tangs and wrasses so I have a big bunch of both plus a couple of clowns and a mandarin fish because they are crazy looking.

Originally Posted by reefmutt

Thanks for the mh shot, Mark. Still a stunning coral. And as usual, exceptionally clear, crisp and well lit shots.. these aren't done on a phone app like mine.. these are better. The editing is nutso.. You must use Lightroom or some such serious photo editing. I would love to know how to use desktop editing instead of snapseed, it is easier to use but does not produce as sophisticated results..
Are you shooting through the front glass for these?

That's quite amazing about RAP SoCal.
Leds are certainly the way of the future, but they are also changing the way we interact with and evaluate corals..
And being old school, I'm not sure how I feel about it..Yet, at the same time I am so tempted to go all led..
When I go into my favourite sps shop, I have to ask him to tune his radion g4s to less blue and more "realistic" led colour palette so that I can evaluate the corals I'm thinking of buying and better discern what they will look like under my lights.
Before leds, you could look at a coral and with some experience, be able to anticipate what it may turn into in your tank, after some time.
Looking at corals glowing all crazy coloured under leds, it is not very easy to know what it can or will look like at home.
In terms of 'reality' - the colour rendering ability of a light source- leds suck big time. Coming from mh and fluorescent lighting, I have spent 20 years looking at what corals actually look like under 'normal' lighting..
Leds used to try to replicate this but now they are so good that they can make a basic coral look like a magical gem from an alternate universe. I think this is good and bad... maybe more good.. the whole point of this hobby has changed from keeping corals happy and healthy to making them look as good as they can..
I'm not saying this is necessarily a bad thing.. once leds take over for real, everybody will be looking at coral through the led lens and i guess at that point we will evaluate our coral purchases based on the crazy colours of led light.. and what we will be able to do with them under our crazy led lights..
.. I'm not really sure what I'm trying to say here.. I guess its a bit of a philosophical thought..
I guess it's that when you go down the led rabbit hole, everything changes and a new reality sets in.. and not necessarily a bad one..

I am in full agreement with you on both lighting and photography. When I started reefing, I think I used something called power compacts flourescent fixtures. And when I decided to get serious I went with metal halides. I railed for the longest time against photoshop because the whole idea of sharing photographs of our corals is to both share what can be accomplished as well as discover new corals that were worth acquiring. Hard to force others into sharing a sense of honesty or integrity and so sometimes pictures got posted that were not an accurate representation of the coral. But then LEDS came along and changed so much. Now you can dial in virtually any light spectrum you like. And corals that were uninteresting under metal halides became multi-colored and brilliant under LED lighting. And for us metal halide folks, well the world changed. Certainly, the goal was not only to acquire great looking corals but to also to color them up. Lighting changed and now so do our thoughts and impressions of coral change. I added reefbrite XHOS for the dawn dusk effect but it really lets me see the glow--and it is impressive. And so now there are corals like the home wrecker or walt disney that are mind boggling under LEDS and very ordinary under metal halides. I think either metal halides will continue to disappear or those of us who prefer metal halides, will simply add more led supplementation for enjoyment. If you have personally seen a home wrecker under LEDS, you can't help but want both the coral and the lighting together. And the newer LEDS certainly are reducing or eliminating the Windex look, certainly the kessil and radions are and i am sure many others as well.

Photography really requires photoshop or lightroom or some program. I get that Samsung phones are pretty good at reef shots at least dealing with some of the blue, iPhones not so much. I like using a DSLR camera, actually I am using a sony mirrorless. Whether using metal halide lighting or blue leds, some white balance adjustment is necessary and that invariably requires a photoshop like program. It is not about enhancing a picture but color correcting to best approximate what the viewer sees in the tank. So I am generally dismissive of those who state their pictures are not adjusted, that is just dumb. Cameras can't deal with the extreme blue of any reef lighting, metal halide or led. Over correcting via software programs is the challenge. I like to think I get it right with my photos but the only way to really tell is to look into my tank.

In terms of shooting through the glass, I almost never shoot through my front glass. The curve of the bow front makes almost every picture somewhat out of focus. So I shoot top down with a viewer. My tank is a large tank and I guess the stand puts it up a bit tall. So I get on a six foot ladder to be able to take my top down pictures. Although my wife doesn't comment, I am sure I must look like a comical figure on top of the ladder leaning down over the tank. Fortunately to date, neither I nor my camera have fallen in yet. Lastly, top down pictures are the most flattering because they best capture the light off the coral and result in the best color. If you have looked top down at your coral in your tank, you understand exactly what I mean. The bow front of my tank doesn't really give me any choice but to shoot top down.

Originally Posted by kenneth wolfe

Well put, 100% correct..nice post

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

Reefmutt always gets it right.

So now that I have spent more time at my computer to comment on the comments, some additional pictures to share and yes, blue led lighting

WWC Red Ferrari




Z's Disguise

[acesq]

Mark, that Z’s disguise is a stunner!! How long have you had it?

[kenneth wolfe]

This is my new samsung s8 active in the water, I'm amazed with it..

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[watchguy123]

Originally Posted by kenneth wolfe

This is my new samsung s8 active in the water, I'm amazed with it..

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

Your camera pictures are awesome. You are going to force me to eat my words. I need to now get rid of my iPhone and camera and just get the Samsung phone. Very cool.

[kenneth wolfe]

Hold , my wife fixing to buy new I phone 8 or 10 and I will compare

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[watchguy123]

I have had this frag for at least two or maybe three years. The base is to the right and it is just now starting to throw some branches out. I am not so sure how pretty it may or may not turn out to be but after all this time, I think I will be a bit more patient

[watchguy123]

Originally Posted by acesq

Mark, that Z’s disguise is a stunner!! How long have you had it?

I think I have had that likely a couple years. All my sps come into my tank as frags, usually 1/2 to 1 inch or so. I have not had any interest in buying colonies for a long, long time. I don't find them interesting. I like watching a frag grow and thrive. Plus I am so concerned about pests and I think there is much less risk with a frag tip than with a colony. Its a lot easier to carefully observe a frag for any pest evidence than it is a colony. So many more hiding spots in a colony. And for me, the challenge of getting that frag to grow into a colorful colony is so darn satisfying. Well except for the frags that won't grow or color up, those are no fun at all.

A couple more pictures:

metal halides lighting:

Reef Raft Canada Shazam



Blue leds of:

JF Flame



The JF Flame is so pretty under any lighting. With metal halides it is much paler but just as dramatic. My colony is getting pretty big, I think at least 4 or 5 inches across, probably even bigger than that. It really is at a stage that I should consider trimming it but it is so enjoyable to look at as is.

[reefmutt]

I’m also on a ladder to take top downs and reaching under my lights. Bit of a pain..
Now, I get out a fan and aim it at me when shooting to keep me cooler under the halides. It helps.
My favorite local vendor recently put g4 pros over his main sps selling tank and I agree- every time I go in there I just want to leave with all the coral AND the lights.
My AI Primes that I use for led supplement are pretty good but I don’t think they produce the same pop as the reefbrites or the pros..
I am nudging ever closer to going full led.
I keep talking mh with led supplementation with him and he keeps saying ‘but what’s the point in using the mh anymore???’
The more he says it, the more I wonder...

Originally Posted by watchguy123

I have had this frag for at least two or maybe three years. The base is to the right and it is just now starting to throw some branches out. I am not so sure how pretty it may or may not turn out to be but after all this time, I think I will be a bit more patient

This lovely piece looks a lot like the Robin Hood I have- only your is nicer!! I have come to accept, when looking at your thread that I will always see the nicer version of EVERYTHING! that’s why I alway come back.

Originally Posted by watchguy123

I think I have had that likely a couple years. All my sps come into my tank as frags, usually 1/2 to 1 inch or so. I have not had any interest in buying colonies for a long, long time. I don't find them interesting. I like watching a frag grow and thrive. Plus I am so concerned about pests and I think there is much less risk with a frag tip than with a colony. Its a lot easier to carefully observe a frag for any pest evidence than it is a colony. So many more hiding spots in a colony. And for me, the challenge of getting that frag to grow into a colorful colony is so darn satisfying. Well except for the frags that won't grow or color up, those are no fun at all.

A couple more pictures:

metal halides lighting:

Reef Raft Canada Shazam



Blue leds of:

JF Flame



The JF Flame is so pretty under any lighting. With metal halides it is much paler but just as dramatic. My colony is getting pretty big, I think at least 4 or 5 inches across, probably even bigger than that. It really is at a stage that I should consider trimming it but it is so enjoyable to look at as is.

That Shazam might have to go on my must have list. It is amazing I just love the texture and that color. And the polyps... I have to go on a quest for this one. It speaks to me.
Your jf flame is way more dense than mine. If they were side by side, it would be hard to say they were the same coral, aside from coloration.
Is it in very turbulent water?

[watchguy123]

Originally Posted by reefmutt

I’m also on a ladder to take top downs and reaching under my lights. Bit of a pain..
Now, I get out a fan and aim it at me when shooting to keep me cooler under the halides. It helps.
My favorite local vendor recently put g4 pros over his main sps selling tank and I agree- every time I go in there I just want to leave with all the coral AND the lights.
My AI Primes that I use for led supplement are pretty good but I don’t think they produce the same pop as the reefbrites or the pros..
I am nudging ever closer to going full led.
I keep talking mh with led supplementation with him and he keeps saying ‘but what’s the point in using the mh anymore???’
The more he says it, the more I wonder...



This lovely piece looks a lot like the Robin Hood I have- only your is nicer!! I have come to accept, when looking at your thread that I will always see the nicer version of EVERYTHING! that’s why I alway come back.


That Shazam might have to go on my must have list. It is amazing I just love the texture and that color. And the polyps... I have to go on a quest for this one. It speaks to me.
Your jf flame is way more dense than mine. If they were side by side, it would be hard to say they were the same coral, aside from coloration.
Is it in very turbulent water?

The Reef Raft Canada Shazam is one of my many favorites. Its colors, polyps and growth form are all very beautiful.

My JF Flame is at the very top of my tank and in the cross hairs of my maxspect gyre so it gets significant flow. In fact, the colony tips are only about three or four inches from the water line. So close, that when I tried this top down picture, I blocked out almost all the light and was too close to be able to focus.

[kenneth wolfe]

Can I get a cut, please?

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[watchguy123]

Another shot of the WWC Red Ferrari

[watchguy123]

I thought I would share some acros that are just not thriving in my tank. Every once in a while, I will get an acro frag that will seemingly begin to encrust and then stop. More importantly, the coralline algae then begins to win the race and encrust over the frag itself. I have tried to remedy this by moving the frag to a different location or scraping some of the coralline algae off but sometimes it seems the frag is doomed not to thrive. The frags do not get either RTN or STN but rather a much slower demise with coralline algae the ultimate winner.

Here are a couple of frags that I have moved at least once and maybe even twice to new locations.

This first one was doing well for a while and then not. It has been in my tank for probably about two years. At its best, it was probably four or five times bigger than this. It seems I may have finally gotten it to a spot where it has a chance to succeed. So although I let my head swell with reefing success periodically, its frags like these that really show me what growing acros can really be like.

Sept 2015


September 2016 (Probably at its best in my tank)


October 2017 It has been in this new spot for some weeks now and you can see how little I have left of the frag, probably less than I had in October 2015


I think the frag above shows some difficulties that I have occasionally struggled with to get growth, after all that is two years of growth.

And now an example of another, but unfortunately I couldn't find the first original frag pictures of it. The following acro has been in my tank for probably some months now, maybe 6 months or so. It also started encrusting and then stopped. When it stopped encrusting, coralline algae starting to win back some territory from the frag. I moved it just a few weeks ago to this new spot and it showed no real improvement. My reefing buddy suggested that I re-frag it as well to see if that could stimulate some new growth. He suggested I separate the base and frag and keep them in different parts of the tank. However, I really want it to grow in this spot, so both the re-frag and base of the frag are next to each other. If my experiment succeeds, I will share more down the line with pictures. You can see where the base looks like it has lost some ground to the coralline algae. However, it looks like the base is healing where I cut the vertical branch and I believe that is a good sign.

[watchguy123]

Another blue body/branch acro. Lots of long vibrant red/purple polyps almost cover the blue branches but they shine through regardless. I seem to have two acros that were likely collected from similar sites, this has a somewhat related look to Z’s Paradise

Z’s Superman





And one more acro, I think extremely unusual and pretty

Z’s Yellow Eyed Jawdropper



A little frag of Reef Raft USA Rainbow Blossom

[watchguy123]

Z’s Prize

[watchguy123]

Z’s Favorite

[watchguy123]

Z’s Pink Cotton Candy

[watchguy123]

Z’s Disguise

[Pife]

Holy crap. You have more amazing different coral than I've ever seen.

[reefmutt]

Mark, fantastic!! Amazing health and growth. Z is an absolute wet thumbed genius!! Mind blowing colours..
Those little dead end frags are so frustrating.. I’ve had some sit in my tank for years.. sometimes they just suddenly start or suddenly rtn overnight.
I’ve had a tiny frag of pearlberry since 2015. Never did a thing as corals grew up around it. About 6 months ago I removed a nub of it out from under the shade of bigger corals. Recently, it has encrusted well and may be about to push out a branch from some of the new encrusting section.. almost as if the original coral just wasn’t going to grow but the new encrusting growth seems to be rejuvenated.. these little animals can be quite perplexing.

[watchguy123]

Originally Posted by Pife

Holy crap. You have more amazing different coral than I've ever seen.

Thank you

Originally Posted by reefmutt

Mark, fantastic!! Amazing health and growth. Z is an absolute wet thumbed genius!! Mind blowing colours..
Those little dead end frags are so frustrating.. I’ve had some sit in my tank for years.. sometimes they just suddenly start or suddenly rtn overnight.
I’ve had a tiny frag of pearlberry since 2015. Never did a thing as corals grew up around it. About 6 months ago I removed a nub of it out from under the shade of bigger corals. Recently, it has encrusted well and may be about to push out a branch from some of the new encrusting section.. almost as if the original coral just wasn’t going to grow but the new encrusting growth seems to be rejuvenated.. these little animals can be quite perplexing.

Well I am so delighted that someone else has suffered through frags that just won't blossom. A friend of mine was gracious enough to give me three different frags over time of Reef Raft USA Firecracker. The first two just would not get happy in my tank. Funny enough the third frag seems happy and thriving in my tank. I have a few frags that should be stellar if they ever decide to grow but after many many months are literally dormant still. I did have one dormant frag finally blossom earlier this year which is really cool. It may have been dormant for a year before it decided to thrive and blossom. I am not sure if the frags are just placed in a spot that is not right for them, so although they may not necessarily fade and succumb, they just stagnate.

Here are a couple more pictures under blue leds which has become my favorite for photos for obvious reasons. I am not done enjoying this lighting.

Reef Raft Canada Orange Passion and Reef Raft USA Pink Floyd (One of my rare through the front glass pictures)



Z's Pink Cotton Candy (it came out blurry but I still wanted to share)