no water change EVER is my goal

[Gary Majchrzak]

started my new 265 with Reef Crystals and tap.
No water change since it's inception.

One Triton ICP test (results posted on my fb wall) performed.
Life is good.

[Ellery4u]

I guess the question comes down to what is the cost breakdown of saltwater vs chemical supplements/ icp tests compare.

It's definitely a worthwhile goal and is a model in countries where water and salt charges are high.

Right now I've been using the cheapest saltmix at 27cents per gallon for a 420 gallon system. I'll have to make a math model comparing to the Triton method unless you already know if one exists.

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[Capt_Cully]

What’s your current dosing demand and what supplements are you using? My understanding is there are a few brands? Are there Home brews yet?

[Gary Majchrzak]

Originally Posted by Ellery4u

I guess the question comes down to what is the cost breakdown of saltwater vs chemical supplements/ icp tests compare.

It's definitely a worthwhile goal and is a model in countries where water and salt charges are high.

Right now I've been using the cheapest saltmix at 27cents per gallon for a 420 gallon system. I'll have to make a math model comparing to the Triton method unless you already know if one exists.

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For myself- the choice to not do water changes has nothing to do with cost.
In no particular order it's all about WHY do we think we need to do water changes... WHAT are we trying to accomplish with them?
CAN I MAINTAIN THE ANIMALS I WANT TO MAINTAIN IN AS HEALTHY AN ENVIRONMENT AS IF I WERE DOING WATER CHANGES?
At the least....
If I cannot totally eliminate water changes I want to reduce water change schedule for several reasons... cost being one of them, but cost being a lower priority than some other considerations on my list

[Gary Majchrzak]

Originally Posted by Capt_Cully

What’s your current dosing demand and what supplements are you using? My understanding is there are a few brands? Are there Home brews yet?

Demand now is very similar to that before moving. I'm running all the familiar gadgets: calcium reactor and kalk dosed through new stirrer.
Liquid supplements are used to bump anything. I use home brew, BRS, B-ionic, Red Sea, TLF, etc etc..... all dosed according to ICP test recommendations. The only Triton brand supplement I'm using right now is Vanadium because (realistically) where else are you going to find a Vanadium supplement?
Dosing Triton supplements in conjunction with their ICP test recommendation is easy. Using a brand other than Triton will require a dosage amount conversion due to dilution percentage differences.
I'm also running a PAX BELLUM chaeto reactor and dosing the recommended PB nitrate/iron supplements. This is mostly to drive down the high phosphates in my system and boost very low nitrates.
My 20 year old liverock is slowly releasing bound up organics in the new system. By today's standards I run a LOT of liverock!
I'm roughly at the 23 week mark of adding rock and most of the nuisance algae/diatom/cyano cycle is done with. For a few weeks it was not pretty- but this move was nowhere near as messy as previous ones- especially considering a LOT of things changed: I switched systems...new water flow, new lighting (MH to LED), new lighting schedule, new skimmer etc.

[Gary Majchrzak]

up from 70.
Not sold on the new diffusers just yet because heavy ripple at water surface here seems to be eliminating 'disco ball effect' just fine.
High speed photography is the only time DBE bothers me.... and I don't own any good photography equipment lol!
Photos of my 265 build posted to my fb wall.

[Capt_Cully]

It sounds enticing.

How are you removing detritus? 100% waterflow?

[Capt_Cully]

Honestly Gary, I used A pair of polarized sunglasses and snapped pics with my phone and it looked great. 84%??? Hot potatah!

[Gary Majchrzak]

Originally Posted by Capt_Cully

It sounds enticing.

How are you removing detritus? 100% waterflow?

Multiple different big wave schedules programmed into two MP60s and the MP40 via Reeflink (seems to be working well now after Ecotech did some upgrades) plus I stir with magnet. One of my two drains has a sock on it.

[Capt_Cully]

Still dosing KNO3?

[Gary Majchrzak]

I use the Red Sea potassium supplement.

[Conesus_Kid]

Gary,

Are you on a well? Did I read that correctly that you started with tap? If so, I'm intrigued. One of the biggest hurdles I had with my system at home was the fact that my well water was so high in TDS.

[Gary Majchrzak]

Very good city water, I might add.
TDS from tap varies but is usually quite low!

[tmz]

Many do water changes as a panacea for a myriad of reasons, some of which like maintaining alk and other consumable major elements and ogoing nutrient control are largely misguided.

Water changes do , however , help maintain constancy in ionic balances for major, minor and trace elements such as metals ,chloride etc. While some of these can be added via pricey supplements based on largely inadequate test reports , there is no means to bring buildups down without exporting some water to my knowlege. Water changes with salt water indentical to the baseline water tends to pull the ionic balances back to the baseline. How much to chage is open to debate and preference. I do suspect many do more than is really needed. Large changes can shock a systme,IMO ;so I have settled on a 1% per day schedlue and could probalby do less.

[saltwaterpicaso]

how is your no water change journey going I am about a year into it have noticed no difference in other than saving money. I will say when I was doing them in the past the whole tank would look like crap for about a day like it did not enjoy it. I use no gfo or carbon just a large skimmer and uv I did have ozone going at one point for about 6 months but have discontinued its use as to the tank was to clean and had corals paling out

[Gary Majchrzak]

Absolutely no water change to date and one ICP test sent in. I'll probably send Germany another test in the next few weeks.
I routinely post pix of my progress to my fb wall.

[Capt_Cully]

Fb.....

[ggdowski]

Originally Posted by Gary Majchrzak

Absolutely no water change to date and one ICP test sent in. I'll probably send Germany another test in the next few weeks.

I routinely post pix of my progress to my fb wall.

I have had a very similar experience.


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[saltwaterpicaso]

what are you dosing just curious

[Gary Majchrzak]

Originally Posted by saltwaterpicaso

what are you dosing just curious

In MY case... the obvious alk, Ca, Mg

and whatever else Triton results recommend.
(I share results if my ICP tests to my fb wall).

So.... ICP results recommended I bump up potassium, iron, vanadium...
I can't recollect all results at the moment.... I'm sure it will change over time as constituents of water are depleted

[ggdowski]

In my case, I started with the triton base elements. Then triton switched the product to Core 7. I started using Core 7. However, I was disappointed. The advertising claimed it was higher concentrated and cheaper to run than the base elements. That is simply not the case. You figure that out pretty quickly when you transition. I felt misled. I confronted them on the advertising and nothing has changed (not that I expected it to). Consequently, I have now decided to migrate to aquaforest products. For the most part, all of these balling methods dose alk, Ca, and Mg (like Gary suggested). On top of that, they add other supplements.... aquaforest lets you add those yourself. I'm not sure vanadium is on that list. I'm waiting for Gary to give more feedback on that supplement ;-).

[Gary Majchrzak]

I could only find Triton brand Vanadium supplement offered for sale. The recommendation for dosing this minor element is very small- like less than 1ml per week in my 265.

I don't know how much of a difference using this actually makes for my reef aquarium.

[Gary Majchrzak]