Reef Central Online Community

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > The Reef Chemistry Forum
Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 08/12/2018, 11:42 AM   #1
smartwater101
Registered Member
 
smartwater101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 382
Exclamation Found several pieces of metal in new sand. Removed + 90% WC. Tests still show TIN

This is a refresh of a tank that sat empty for 2+ years. 70g. Tropic Marine Pro salt. CaribSea florida crushed coral (bag was purchased two years ago but just opened)

All the power heads are new. Pumps are clean and there are no rusted screws and all metal brackets are coated with plastidip. No GFO.

Test from a month ago.

Analysis
97 µg/l

Setpoint
0,1 µg/l

Deviation
96.90

After this Triton test, I originally thought the new PVC was the culprit (but still crazy high) Then ran a strong magnet through the sandbed I found several pieces of metal in the tank! Enough to fill a quarter of a shotglass.

I did a 90% water change after removing these pieces and a month later I'm still seeing tin in the latest test.

Analysis
23 µg/l

Setpoint
0,1 µg/l

Deviation
22.9
23 µg/l 0,1 µg/l 22.9

So I'm at a loss at this point. Confused about how it got there in the first place and wondering why I still have elevated levels. And I don't see any stand-alone tin test kits.

Thoughts on how to proceed?




__________________
160 mixed reef: Hippo tang, Foxface, clownfish, 25+ nano gobies/blennies/cardinals
smartwater101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/12/2018, 03:16 PM   #2
bertoni
RC Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 88,616
What kind of metal was this? I'm a bit skeptical about the tin. I don't think that tin is alloyed very often with iron.


__________________
Jonathan Bertoni
bertoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/12/2018, 03:21 PM   #3
smartwater101
Registered Member
 
smartwater101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by bertoni View Post
What kind of metal was this? I'm a bit skeptical about the tin. I don't think that tin is alloyed very often with iron.
No idea. It was little broken up shards.


__________________
160 mixed reef: Hippo tang, Foxface, clownfish, 25+ nano gobies/blennies/cardinals
smartwater101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/12/2018, 03:28 PM   #4
rvareef
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 664
pics?


rvareef is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/12/2018, 04:14 PM   #5
bertoni
RC Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 88,616
I don't particularly trust the tin reading. If you want to check the level, you could try enclabs.com, but it'll be pricey. If there is lead, a PolyFilter might help, but I'm not sure I'd bother unless animals were having problems.


__________________
Jonathan Bertoni
bertoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/12/2018, 05:00 PM   #6
smartwater101
Registered Member
 
smartwater101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by bertoni View Post
I don't particularly trust the tin reading.
Well to be fair, only one of my tanks has tin show up in testing and only one of my tanks actually had pieces of metal in it.


__________________
160 mixed reef: Hippo tang, Foxface, clownfish, 25+ nano gobies/blennies/cardinals
smartwater101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/12/2018, 05:15 PM   #7
bertoni
RC Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 88,616
That's true, but I'm still a bit skeptical. I don't know of any alloys of tin and iron. Tin might show up in solder, though. The reading could be showing some form of interference, which is an issue with ICPP.


__________________
Jonathan Bertoni
bertoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/14/2018, 05:10 AM   #8
mcgyvr
Registered Member
 
mcgyvr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 20,050
Quote:
Originally Posted by bertoni View Post
That's true, but I'm still a bit skeptical. I don't know of any alloys of tin and iron. Tin might show up in solder, though. The reading could be showing some form of interference, which is an issue with ICPP.
Agreed that tin contamination in the metallic objects in the sand bed is unlikely....
Tin plated or tin alloyed ferrous metal (magnetic) is unlikely/uncommon..


But.. Guess what float glass is made on.. Yes.. a molten bed of tin..
Guess what glass has thats often overlooked by tank manufacturers.. Yep.. a tin residue side and a non-tin side..
Guess whats often overlooked in tank building.. Yep.. identifying the tin side with UV light,etc.. and putting that side out..

High tin levels in ICP testing is quite common and IMO very likely from the glass and the tin residue left on it from manufacturing..


__________________
Who me?
mcgyvr is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/15/2018, 11:07 AM   #9
smartwater101
Registered Member
 
smartwater101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgyvr View Post

High tin levels in ICP testing is quite common and IMO very likely from the glass and the tin residue left on it from manufacturing..
I use acrylic.

I'm still not understanding what there is to be sceptical about. Only one tank showed tin (two months in a row) and only one tank had metal fragments found.


__________________
160 mixed reef: Hippo tang, Foxface, clownfish, 25+ nano gobies/blennies/cardinals
smartwater101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/15/2018, 11:25 AM   #10
bertoni
RC Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 88,616
We see tin readings and various other elements showing up in odd quantities. There's some evidence that their testing doesn't work for trace elements:

http://packedhead.net/2015/triton-la...ater-standard/

Also, I'm not sure why the metal that you found would have tin in it. It's possible, though. If you're worried, a PolyFilter might help, at least over time.


__________________
Jonathan Bertoni
bertoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09/12/2018, 09:15 AM   #11
smartwater101
Registered Member
 
smartwater101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 382
Exclamation

Still have tin somewhere... Even after detox and several water changes.

Analysis
24 µg/l

O_o

This is driving me bonkers. At this point I'm going to remove all the rockwork and sand. For my eels, I glued sand to PVC to hide it so there is a good chance a piece of metal is on it.

The more I think about it, the rockwork I got at the LFS has just been sitting in a tub in the back of the store under some dirty shelves. Some contaminants could have gotten in.

I'll quadruple check the pumps again as well. This tin must die!

(And please don't waist my time saying the test results are a fluke three months in a row, I have two tanks and only one has tin. Something is clearly contaminating it.)


__________________
160 mixed reef: Hippo tang, Foxface, clownfish, 25+ nano gobies/blennies/cardinals
smartwater101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09/17/2018, 12:05 AM   #12
saveafish
Registered Member
 
saveafish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: indiana
Posts: 873
The only iron I can think of that has tin in it is ballistic metals. Mostly military fragmented ammo. Motors, hand grenades things like that.. And the plate glass..


__________________
If it was'nt for the sea I could not see or sing ( Jimmy Buffet )
I like to glue animals to rocks and put disturbing amounts of electricity and saltwater next to each other
Reefing is'nt how long you been in it. It is how deep you get in it.

Current Tank Info: 400g display build, 300g sump, 75g ATO, 75g refug and a few more. Close to a 1000g. 200g mixing station.
saveafish is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10/06/2018, 11:16 AM   #13
cjpitt80
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 158
Ever find out the source of contamination? My last triton test revealed high levels of Tin. I'm thinking it's my salt (Red Sea Blue)


__________________
75 gal display running since 5/14/18--29 gal sump Ocellaris Clown Pair, Flasher Wrasse, Bangaii Cardinal, Fire Shrimp pair, Skunk Cleaner, Blue Coral Banded Shrimp, Euphyllia, Monti Cap, Monti Digi. C
cjpitt80 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10/06/2018, 11:32 AM   #14
smartwater101
Registered Member
 
smartwater101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjpitt80 View Post
Ever find out the source of contamination?
After the latest test I removed all the rock and sand. Ended up finding a lot more metal shards in the process. I still don't know where it came from but it was a lot in total.

I eventually just decided to break the tank down. Electricity, in the summer, brings a massive bill and a second tank wasn't helping.

I just wish I knew where all these freaking shards came from!!!


Here is a pic of what I was finding (coin for scale.) I found about 1/3 to 1/2 of a shotglass worth of these little metal shards!

metalintank.jpg


__________________
160 mixed reef: Hippo tang, Foxface, clownfish, 25+ nano gobies/blennies/cardinals
smartwater101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10/06/2018, 03:34 PM   #15
bertoni
RC Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 88,616
My first guess would be that the metal comes from equipment used to mine or collect the sand, but it could also happen during processing. I think if it came from a piece of aquarium equipment, you'd likely notice, although you might need to dissemble a pump a bit to look at the impeller.


__________________
Jonathan Bertoni
bertoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10/06/2018, 04:56 PM   #16
cjpitt80
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 158
That's a bummer man. I'm assuming mine is coming from the salt


__________________
75 gal display running since 5/14/18--29 gal sump Ocellaris Clown Pair, Flasher Wrasse, Bangaii Cardinal, Fire Shrimp pair, Skunk Cleaner, Blue Coral Banded Shrimp, Euphyllia, Monti Cap, Monti Digi. C
cjpitt80 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2022
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.