320 gallons of Serenity, Sea Monsters & Sanctuary - Page 7

mvsjrs · 10/24/2018, 11:05 AM

My philosophy has drawn on the experience of many freshwater cichlids keepers. You can really be in for trouble if you try to balance aggression for a few fish by dividing territories. The reality is we can never provide the kind of space needed for any two fish--one threatened fish can always swim 10 feet away in a second or two.

So where do cichlids come in? First, avoid conspecifics...same species, similar appearances. Lots of different, non-obvious targets of aggression. Then, when you can't hold it any longer...get three or four! Ultimately, all the conspecific aggression gets divided between multiple fish. No longer can that one big fish isolate and punish it's smaller conspecific rival because there is more than one. A & B will pick on C one day then B & C will pick on A another day and so forth. You just don't want A & B mating and always picking on C (better if, D, E, F, G...are all in there to share aggression).

Second, choose wisely. Bioload governs all. Five fish a foot each would bust the system. Typically, ammonia and nitrates are not the problem here. It's nitrates. There just is not enough volume of water or reasonably enough water changes to turn over the nitrates with several beasts in the tank. The vast majority of my fish are smaller species with only a few that will be big but not too big in the future. No groupers in my tank! The eels, foxface, bristle tooth tangs and marine beta will be the biggest. Also, I would cull some specimens over time that are less impressive but still desirable at my local pet store.

(An aside here, the zebra eel was an early impulse buy that would have broken this rule. He easily doubled in size in the tank and then one morning showed up dead. There were no signs of health issues. The zebra and the foxface would often comingle near the PVC cave entrance. I believe the foxface was startled and spiked the zebra accidentally. This is actually common in lionfish and snowflake eel tanks. The snowflakes get so excited eating that they can be inadvertently spiked by the lionfish. Whatever the cause, I am more disciplined now in all my purchases. The dangerous fish are the Gold X Lightning Maroon Clownfish and the snowflake eel; either of which could at full size go bonkers and kill everything else in the tank.)

Third, if the fish aren't healthy, a dying 1 foot fish will create a huge ammonia spike overnight so a massive reserve is necessary. To a certain extent, that cannot be avoided because the average quantity of bacteria is always in balance with the average amount of waste. However, bacteria multiply more rapidly in an established tank than they do when establishing the tank to begin with. One lonely bacteria can only metabolize and grow/reproduce so fast. An established tank of millions of bacteria can metabolize a spike much better. That reserve in my tank is provided by the unusually high (very) amount of live rock. (500 lbs of various types. When I nixed the 150 tank, I still kept the cycled rock in the remaining system.)

Fourth, get 'em while they are young. This is a twofold benefit: (1) young = small = less bioload that can gradually grow the bacteria available with the fish over time and (2) young = less aggressive while getting to know the hierarchy of the tank. None of my dwarf angels fight, although they do bicker... They have always been in the same confines with the same fish. When I lost one paired Midnight Clownfish (power outage overnight which failure mode I have addressed), I tried to substitute another young captive bred. He has never been accepted but has survived just fine on the periphery of tank.

Fifth, tough lookalikes go a long way as dither fish. The case here is the Lemon Peel Angelfish. Normally, completely intolerant of other dwarf angels, she aggressively chases the lemon damselfish which are indestructible. That sort of mixes the pot and fish will bicker when she is in a bad mood. But again, the aggression is diffused in numbers.

Sixth, food! Hungry animals are aggressive animals. Starving animals are killers. I have accepted that I need to feed well which makes nutrient reduction hard. Half of my 120 gal refugium is a solid turning mass of chaeto grown from a few strands. That tank is a teeming mass of copepods. These have to be some of the food supply for my smaller fish. My nitrates are always lower than the 5ppm (lowest color in my Hagen test kit) if there is any real coloration in the test. But, I wouldn't try this with a SPS tank!

Seventh, prayer. I could be heading for an inevitable crash in the future. The lack of a sand bed collecting detritus and the prompt removal of mulm from the settling tank mean there is little buildup of detritus. I do dose vodka in extremely small quantities because I tried that technique last year then stopped. I ended up with two liters of extra vodka (a very cheap brand) so I dose two cap fulls and am tracking nitrates. This probably feeds my skimmer a minute amount as well as the live rock but it is certainly too little to be a dependency in the system.

That's my philosophy and reasoning.

mvsjrs · 10/24/2018, 11:58 AM

tjm9331 · 10/24/2018, 12:28 PM

Well, whatever you're doing it's obviously working and that magnificent foxface...I think I’m in love

I hope I can get my 125 to look like this one day.

thanks for the good read/explanation!

mvsjrs · 10/25/2018, 06:59 AM

Without being accused of shilling for anyone, BRS (BulkReefSupply) did a very nice job on a clownfish harem tank. Many of their finding are similar to cichlids and my tank approach.

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/video...-investigates/

mvsjrs · 10/29/2018, 07:56 AM

Here is the attraction of putting the live rock in the inductor tank. Water changes. By flushing the tank water through the inductor tank, the system is operating less like a conical settling tank and more like a funnel. Here are the first three buckets after flushing.

Then I did a second small rinse to get the last. This will not matter when I flush to the septic because then the inductor tank will drain to the bottom. In this example, I con only drain the inductor to the height of the water bucket.

Here they are all in comparison:

mvsjrs · 10/29/2018, 08:00 AM

The next day I filter the water bucket through a 75 micro film and collect the following detritus. Not that much of the dark water flowed right through the film but 75 is the smallest I have.

Yuck! But hooray for all the detritus that gets sucked out in a water change without any additional siphoning of the gravel.

mvsjrs · 11/01/2018, 07:58 PM

I decided that the pump noise was still too high after insulating around pipe connection. So…

I removed the TurboSea 1740P (display tank fed) and PanWorld 200PS. Then I moved the Dolphin Diamond Amp Master 6250-T3 to run the DT and refugium manifold in order replaced the other two pumps.

Before:

After:

mvsjrs · 11/01/2018, 08:00 PM

As you can see, I then used the space freed up from moving the pumps to install an electronics board and mounted all the electrical stuff...

mvsjrs · 11/11/2018, 07:32 PM

Critical difference between the previous picture and this next picture? Labels...!

mvsjrs · 11/11/2018, 08:44 PM

My Oceanic 32 HEX tank was not selling on Craigslist so I did the obvious, purchased a Tunze auto topoff and used the tank as an intermediate reservoir for Mrs Wages pickling lime.

I chose not to use the 75 gallon reservoir because of fearing a pump lock on failure with 75 gallons rather than 32 gallons. The math on the full 32 gallons worst case is as follows:

mvsjrs · 11/14/2018, 09:09 AM

So, the good, the bad, the ugly. My LPS overall are static/poor health—although more static than looking like they are going to expire. They definitely don’t pass the 30k foot visual test. While I have lowered faith home testing, these are what I got from what kits I had on hand. Unless otherwise noted, the tests are taken from water sourced in the inductor tank since it is the immediate outflow of the display tank.

8.4 (Hanna pH pen)
1.024/1.025 salinity (Milwaukee tester)
13.7 kH (Hanna calorimeter)
0 ammonia (test strip)
<0.25 ammonia (Mardel kit)
0 nitrite (test strip)
0 nitrate (Hagen kit #1)
0 nitrate (Hagen kit #2)
2-5 ppm nitrate (Salifert kit)
12.5 ppm nitrate (Tetra kit)
0.1-0.25 ppm phosphate (Sera kit)

79.9 degF refugium (monitor)
78.6 refugium (pH pen)
78.5 sump (pH pen)
79.5 chiller

Because I got any ammonia reading at all on the sump, I tested directly in the display tank.

0.25-0.5 ammonia in DT (test strip)

Yikes!

Here’s my current theory. The heavy fish load is producing high levels of ammonia in the water column before it is taken up by bacteria. So the common reading is zero but a lot of ammonia is always being processed through the water column. This is irritating the LPS so they are more retracted/stagnated in growth.

A given problem with this setup from the beginning was that it was a commercial “reef ready” tank and therefore had one 1” bulkhead and one ¾” bulkhead. That was why another bulkhead was drilled through the back wall in order to safely run a siphon on the ¾” with two 1” pipes as backup. So, that means that turnover of water through the display tank is significantly reduced and the afore mentioned ammonia would be present in the DT then zero in the sump area.

So, for a couple of days, I will run the DT flow at full capacity with one 1” pipe. It will not siphon because the head pressure from the pump reduces the pump output too heavily and it is additional to the ¾" pipe. I might get a siphon by changing the stand tubes elevations so that only the 1” operates but for proof-of-principle, we will operate less optimally (noise) and safely (fail safe overflow) for a few days to see if we can get the ammonia to the live rock more quickly and have some visual improvement in corals.

mvsjrs · 11/15/2018, 08:57 PM

I am going with the Red Sea Mixed Reef guide and products (except kalk). Their guidelines are

salinity 1.024
Ca 450 ppm
Mg 1350 ppm
Alk 11.5 dKH
NO3 1-2 ppm

With these additional targets
pH 8.4
NH3 zero
NO2 zero
PO4 0.01-0.03
temp 78-80 degF (hopefully balancing chiller and heater from basement)

However, I am using the Instant Ocean Reef Crystals since the bags used for packaging are much easier for me to manage when making 75 gallons.

I put the Effective Water Volume = 70 (DT) + 120 (refugium) + 40 (inductor) +45 (sump) = 275 gallons. That makes for 47 gallons of live rock displacement.

I will get better insight into parameters as I replace my old kits & stuff. This is not the place to be using kits years past the expiration date. I am guessing PO4 is truly high (the test was) without a GFO reactor (even with massive chaeto growth). My understanding is that nitrogens limit the chaeto growth before consuming enough PO4.

mvsjrs · 11/24/2018, 03:20 PM

OMG the noise!! Pulling water straight down a drain tube is the noisiest thing known to mankind! I would rather be at the range playing with the 7.62 mm short barrel.

This has been the loudest 10 days of my aquarium life.

And the result...nothing. No change in polyp extension and no reading of ammonia above the "hum, is that zero or a little colored?" level. I do believe that I see a little color change in the test kits/strips but I am not very good at reading them.

I also pulled out and added a PhosBan reactor in the sump with a PowerClear 40 powerhead set to lowest flow and 5" of media. After three days, I see no change in the lowest reading from the 0.1-0.25 ppm phosphate (Sera kit)...but the spectrum of colors does not start at white/clear but instead a very light blue. I can only say the lightest blue seems to match which would give no more than 0.1-0.25 ppm phosphate and possibly zero. Certainly no Perry Mason moment.

mvsjrs · 11/24/2018, 03:31 PM

Summary:

Starburst Polyp Rock Indonesia - going gangbusters
Aussie Torch Coral - doing well enough that it seems to have split
Green People Eaters Polyp Rock Zoanthus - seemingly dead colony regenerating
Alveopora Coral Indonesia - no change
**ORA® Red Goniopora Coral - skeletonized but polyps still clearly present
**Ultra Hammer Coral - no change in 3 months
**Aussie Cespitularia Coral - finally died after 3 months
**Aussie Sinularia Finger Leather Coral (several sp.) - never extend polyps
**Toadstool Mushroom Leather Coral Indonesia - never extends polyps but the trunk & cap are getting thicker
Red Bubble Tip Anemone - going gangbusters
**Bubble Tip Anemone Green - hiding between back wall and back of rock formation
**Rose Bulb Anemone (Indonesia) - hiding
Mushroom Ricordea, Rhodactis Indonesia - unremarkable

**=concerning.

mvsjrs · 11/24/2018, 04:06 PM

Conversation with H. at LiveAquaria -

Possibilities:
(1) Too strong of linear flow from closed loop.
(2) Too intense lighting (especially goniopora sp.)
(3) Too much nutrient uptake in chaeto for soft corals.

(1) Too strong of linear flow from closed loop.
The CL was intended for SPS tank, but since it was long since already bought, the AmpMaster was used. In the past, I have tried restricting the flow with the ball valves in the CL but maybe I gradually wean the tank down on the CL to zero and rely only on the one MP40 (EcoTech not Maschinenpistole) and the return pump.

(2) Too intense lighting (especially goniopora sp.)
May just be the flower pot getting too much intensity. I know PAR readings should really be the guide but buying another diagnostic tool...blah. It is interesting that the toadstool is getting enough light to grow without extending its polyps. I really only think this could be because the canopy is relatively short, not because the 2 Radion X15w G4 Pro and 2 T5HO 24" retrofits are producing too much intensity. But without PAR, who knows.

(3) Too much nutrient uptake in chaeto for soft corals.
In three months under the Kessel H380, the few remaining strands of dying chaeto under an old 10K MH have grown into a full 60 gallon cube of rotating, stringy chaeto. I once have disposed of a 2½ gallon pail of chaeto just by grabbing the mass and chopping out a segment with scissors. I clearly "overfeed" from the stereotype SPS reefer but I come from a fish first background in freshwater with massive water changes (my beloved polypterus ornatipinnis "Bru'te" would eat an adult mouse or full grown mbuna daily if I let him). So, all that food is certainly creating a nutrient rich environment. If the chaeto were outcompleting the soft corals, you could certainly end up with restricted coral growth and massive chaeto. Algae in the display tank is not a good indicator for this tank because there are too many fishie mouths nipping at anything edible. Opinions on chaeto starving out soft corals?

laverda · 11/24/2018, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mvsjrs

So, the good, the bad, the ugly. My LPS overall are static/poor health—although more static than looking like they are going to expire. They definitely don’t pass the 30k foot visual test. While I have lowered faith home testing, these are what I got from what kits I had on hand. Unless otherwise noted, the tests are taken from water sourced in the inductor tank since it is the immediate outflow of the display tank.

8.4 (Hanna pH pen)
1.024/1.025 salinity (Milwaukee tester)
13.7 kH (Hanna calorimeter)
0 ammonia (test strip)
<0.25 ammonia (Mardel kit)
0 nitrite (test strip)
0 nitrate (Hagen kit #1)
0 nitrate (Hagen kit #2)
2-5 ppm nitrate (Salifert kit)
12.5 ppm nitrate (Tetra kit)
0.1-0.25 ppm phosphate (Sera kit)

79.9 degF refugium (monitor)
78.6 refugium (pH pen)
78.5 sump (pH pen)
79.5 chiller

Because I got any ammonia reading at all on the sump, I tested directly in the display tank.

0.25-0.5 ammonia in DT (test strip)

Yikes!

Here’s my current theory. The heavy fish load is producing high levels of ammonia in the water column before it is taken up by bacteria. So the common reading is zero but a lot of ammonia is always being processed through the water column. This is irritating the LPS so they are more retracted/stagnated in growth.

A given problem with this setup from the beginning was that it was a commercial “reef ready” tank and therefore had one 1” bulkhead and one ¾” bulkhead. That was why another bulkhead was drilled through the back wall in order to safely run a siphon on the ¾” with two 1” pipes as backup. So, that means that turnover of water through the display tank is significantly reduced and the afore mentioned ammonia would be present in the DT then zero in the sump area.

So, for a couple of days, I will run the DT flow at full capacity with one 1” pipe. It will not siphon because the head pressure from the pump reduces the pump output too heavily and it is additional to the ¾" pipe. I might get a siphon by changing the stand tubes elevations so that only the 1” operates but for proof-of-principle, we will operate less optimally (noise) and safely (fail safe overflow) for a few days to see if we can get the ammonia to the live rock more quickly and have some visual improvement in corals.

Assuming your test results are accurate; I see several issues. In order of importance. Ammonia should be undetectable with hobby test kits. An established tank should not have ammonia issues. Has anything died in your tank recently? Your DKH is too high. Natural sea water is much lower. Personally I aim for 8.6 which is still a little higher than NSW. Your Nitrates are to low. I would aim for 10 up to 20. You can reduce your light cycle on you refugium to raise the nitrates. I would get decent test kits, not dip strips. I recommend Salifert test kits.

laverda · 11/24/2018, 07:23 PM

[QUOTE=mvsjrs;25516329]I decided that the pump noise was still too high after insulating around pipe connection. So…[QUOTE]

To reduce pump noise put silicone pads under the pumps and connect them with flexible hose. Silicon hose is ideal but flexible PVC is easiier and mys be enough to solve your noise problem.

mvsjrs · 11/30/2018, 11:21 AM

Thanks laverda for the feedback.

The evidence seems pretty conclusive that

Quote:

Originally Posted by mvsjrs

(3) Too much nutrient uptake in chaeto for soft corals.

is the culprit. Whether uptake in the chaeto, live rock denitrification or water change regime; the corals respond very favorably to increases in nitrate sources. Given the original build intent, the filtration system is built for a 300-400 gallon tank but is only employing the first 92 gallon of display tank right now. Heavy stocking and heavy feeding just cannot support the corals need for nitrate while the skimmer, chaeto, live rock, water changes, etc are all working. A simple search of "can a tank have too much chaeto" will provide (lots of detail about trimming chaeto... and) numerous threads where nutrients are too low in mixed tanks. Each time I take some action to increase free nitrates, the coral polyps temporarily extend and the corals look good. An short time later, with the nitrates depleted, the corals retract and we have my described problem.

I added two new data readings for the tank:
- alk 10.3 dKH
- PO4 0.17 ppm

The lime water T/O arrangement kept the pump too close to the precipitate of the Mrs Wages. When it ran, some of the precipitate would get dumped in the tank with the already saturated T/O water. Correcting the arrangement immediately dropped alkalinity from 13.7 dKH to 10.3 dKH. I am going to further optimize the amount of Mrs Wages with the volume of the T/O container.

The Sera PO4 of 0.10-0.25 mg/l matches with the Hanna phosphate checker at 0.17 ppm. I made the mistake of buying the phosphate checker rather than the phosphorus checker so this is only a gross reading but it does tell the story... Too much phosphate in addition to too little nitrate.

I don't believe there ever was an ammonia issue other than old test kits and reading colorless and really colorless (or zero color change as really zero measured).

I have not yet decided on a course of action for addressing the PO4 and NO3 levels. I am somewhat tempted to use the 60 gallon cube (i.e.- empty half of the refugium) with a couple of lionfish. They would make a beautiful addition to the fishcave...

mvsjrs · 12/02/2018, 01:36 PM

Cleared out some chaeto. It is a 2½ gal trash can, loosely packed then packed down. It barely made an impact in the chaeto ball but I did not want to move too fast with a change. I will do it a couple more times every couple days. I like to have enough to sell some through Craigslist when someone needs it locally. Too much hassle to ship but it's good for the struggling hobbyist occasionally.

mvsjrs · 12/02/2018, 01:58 PM

So, when I moved the pumps to make more space and reduce the noise in the Fish Cave, I decided to clean the pumps. The TurboSea 1740P (a.k.a BlueLine 70HD, PanWorld 200PS) had the following in the impeller but just kept whirling along.

Then, since the skimmer had stopped collecting any skimmate for several days, I cleaned the VARIOS-6 intake pump and the VARIOS-6 air pump impeller on the Reef Octopus skimmer. The following was hidden on the intake pump's intake orifice inside the debris screen and some partially sucked into the impeller.

The impeller for the air pump looked like this and included a little debris:

That's a good statement on preventative maintenance being valuable in addition to solving an observed problem. The skimmate cup lid also got a cleaning although the neck was nice and clean because of the automated neck cleaner...good argument for its effectiveness:

mvsjrs · 12/02/2018, 02:08 PM

So, back to solving my ULNS problem, somewhere I never thought I would be, breaking out my freshwater planting chemicals, I located KNO3 and mixed a solution.

Effective Water Volume = 70 (DT) + 120 (refugium) + 40 (inductor) +45 (sump) = 275 gallons.

http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/calculator.htm

I mixed up a solution as follows using their great colculator:

I chose a 100 gallon value as the equivalent size of the actually occupied space. At 20 ml dosing per day, I can increase to 40 and 60 ml with my dosing cup to move up to an equivalent 300 gallon EWV.

mvsjrs · 12/02/2018, 07:15 PM

Broke down and added a powerhead in the tank. Two months ago I turned of the basement filtration in order to feed. Well, that left no water circulation and without adequate oxygenation from water movement, I lost several of the more active fish.

I also added a beeping alarm that activates when the power is not being supplied to the DT pump circuit. Further, the CL pump was put on a different circuit loop so that it would continue to run during feeding when the DT pump is off. A battery on the powerhead further protects against the same situation if the GFCI from trips. Now, I feel very confident that a repeat with not occur.

mvsjrs · 12/02/2018, 07:37 PM

Financial update: $755 of crap sold or returned since starting the project. The other side of the ledger is not balanced! Gotta love this hobby...

mvsjrs · 12/27/2018, 05:42 PM

There has been real progress with increasing nitrates. Dosing 40 ml nitrate each morning directly (for maximum effect) to the display tank. The chaeto lighting has been reduced by 3 hours. About half the chaeto has been removed (even sold some!). The fish are about as fat as they can get from all the feeding. But, still no measurable nitrates in the sump and the skimmer production remains reduced.

The other half of the refugium (so essentially a second 60 gallon cube) has been modified to prevent escapees so the gymnothorax tile will have his own special spot after he reaches maturity and full saltwater rather than brackish. I will leave the mollies behind so I don’t end up with an explosion of mollies in my reef display tank—those suckers are resilient!

The softies are still hampered by the swings in nitrate availability but they are opening and extending their polyps. The flower pot has polyps re-emerging from the bleached out region. I also lowered it from its higher perch because the shaded parts of its skeleton were doing better than the unshaded parts.

mvsjrs · 12/27/2018, 07:09 PM

So, all these low nitrate problems have me thinking. If turnover of the DT to the sump is fairly slow (which it is; and I don’t mean water circulation which is very high) and I start controlled, steady nitrate dosing via a doser into the DT, could the sump and fuge continue to create an ULNS outside the DT? If so, could my original concept of a dual DT system with one DT targeting softies and one DT targeting SPS possibly be implementable? Now, with a tightening budget and current mediocre coral husbandry experience, I am not burning to delve into a second DT and into SPS specifically. I can always test for nitrate and phosphate but two established, functioning display tanks would really be necessary to prove out the concept.

10/24/2018, 11:05 AM	#151
mvsjrs Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 162	My philosophy has drawn on the experience of many freshwater cichlids keepers. You can really be in for trouble if you try to balance aggression for a few fish by dividing territories. The reality is we can never provide the kind of space needed for any two fish--one threatened fish can always swim 10 feet away in a second or two. So where do cichlids come in? First, avoid conspecifics...same species, similar appearances. Lots of different, non-obvious targets of aggression. Then, when you can't hold it any longer...get three or four! Ultimately, all the conspecific aggression gets divided between multiple fish. No longer can that one big fish isolate and punish it's smaller conspecific rival because there is more than one. A & B will pick on C one day then B & C will pick on A another day and so forth. You just don't want A & B mating and always picking on C (better if, D, E, F, G...are all in there to share aggression). Second, choose wisely. Bioload governs all. Five fish a foot each would bust the system. Typically, ammonia and nitrates are not the problem here. It's nitrates. There just is not enough volume of water or reasonably enough water changes to turn over the nitrates with several beasts in the tank. The vast majority of my fish are smaller species with only a few that will be big but not too big in the future. No groupers in my tank! The eels, foxface, bristle tooth tangs and marine beta will be the biggest. Also, I would cull some specimens over time that are less impressive but still desirable at my local pet store. (An aside here, the zebra eel was an early impulse buy that would have broken this rule. He easily doubled in size in the tank and then one morning showed up dead. There were no signs of health issues. The zebra and the foxface would often comingle near the PVC cave entrance. I believe the foxface was startled and spiked the zebra accidentally. This is actually common in lionfish and snowflake eel tanks. The snowflakes get so excited eating that they can be inadvertently spiked by the lionfish. Whatever the cause, I am more disciplined now in all my purchases. The dangerous fish are the Gold X Lightning Maroon Clownfish and the snowflake eel; either of which could at full size go bonkers and kill everything else in the tank.) Third, if the fish aren't healthy, a dying 1 foot fish will create a huge ammonia spike overnight so a massive reserve is necessary. To a certain extent, that cannot be avoided because the average quantity of bacteria is always in balance with the average amount of waste. However, bacteria multiply more rapidly in an established tank than they do when establishing the tank to begin with. One lonely bacteria can only metabolize and grow/reproduce so fast. An established tank of millions of bacteria can metabolize a spike much better. That reserve in my tank is provided by the unusually high (very) amount of live rock. (500 lbs of various types. When I nixed the 150 tank, I still kept the cycled rock in the remaining system.) Fourth, get 'em while they are young. This is a twofold benefit: (1) young = small = less bioload that can gradually grow the bacteria available with the fish over time and (2) young = less aggressive while getting to know the hierarchy of the tank. None of my dwarf angels fight, although they do bicker... They have always been in the same confines with the same fish. When I lost one paired Midnight Clownfish (power outage overnight which failure mode I have addressed), I tried to substitute another young captive bred. He has never been accepted but has survived just fine on the periphery of tank. Fifth, tough lookalikes go a long way as dither fish. The case here is the Lemon Peel Angelfish. Normally, completely intolerant of other dwarf angels, she aggressively chases the lemon damselfish which are indestructible. That sort of mixes the pot and fish will bicker when she is in a bad mood. But again, the aggression is diffused in numbers. Sixth, food! Hungry animals are aggressive animals. Starving animals are killers. I have accepted that I need to feed well which makes nutrient reduction hard. Half of my 120 gal refugium is a solid turning mass of chaeto grown from a few strands. That tank is a teeming mass of copepods. These have to be some of the food supply for my smaller fish. My nitrates are always lower than the 5ppm (lowest color in my Hagen test kit) if there is any real coloration in the test. But, I wouldn't try this with a SPS tank! Seventh, prayer. I could be heading for an inevitable crash in the future. The lack of a sand bed collecting detritus and the prompt removal of mulm from the settling tank mean there is little buildup of detritus. I do dose vodka in extremely small quantities because I tried that technique last year then stopped. I ended up with two liters of extra vodka (a very cheap brand) so I dose two cap fulls and am tracking nitrates. This probably feeds my skimmer a minute amount as well as the live rock but it is certainly too little to be a dependency in the system. That's my philosophy and reasoning. Last edited by mvsjrs; 10/24/2018 at 11:49 AM.

10/24/2018, 12:28 PM	#153
tjm9331 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 340	320 gallons of Serenity, Sea Monsters & Sanctuary Well, whatever you're doing it's obviously working and that magnificent foxface...I think I’m in love I hope I can get my 125 to look like this one day. thanks for the good read/explanation! Last edited by tjm9331; 10/24/2018 at 12:34 PM.

11/11/2018, 08:44 PM	#160
mvsjrs Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 162	My Oceanic 32 HEX tank was not selling on Craigslist so I did the obvious, purchased a Tunze auto topoff and used the tank as an intermediate reservoir for Mrs Wages pickling lime. I chose not to use the 75 gallon reservoir because of fearing a pump lock on failure with 75 gallons rather than 32 gallons. The math on the full 32 gallons worst case is as follows: Last edited by mvsjrs; 11/11/2018 at 08:55 PM.

11/15/2018, 08:57 PM	#162
mvsjrs Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 162	I am going with the Red Sea Mixed Reef guide and products (except kalk). Their guidelines are salinity 1.024 Ca 450 ppm Mg 1350 ppm Alk 11.5 dKH NO3 1-2 ppm With these additional targets pH 8.4 NH3 zero NO2 zero PO4 0.01-0.03 temp 78-80 degF (hopefully balancing chiller and heater from basement) However, I am using the Instant Ocean Reef Crystals since the bags used for packaging are much easier for me to manage when making 75 gallons. I put the Effective Water Volume = 70 (DT) + 120 (refugium) + 40 (inductor) +45 (sump) = 275 gallons. That makes for 47 gallons of live rock displacement. I will get better insight into parameters as I replace my old kits & stuff. This is not the place to be using kits years past the expiration date. I am guessing PO4 is truly high (the test was) without a GFO reactor (even with massive chaeto growth). My understanding is that nitrogens limit the chaeto growth before consuming enough PO4. Last edited by mvsjrs; 11/15/2018 at 09:28 PM.

11/24/2018, 07:23 PM	#167
laverda Registered Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 6,902	[QUOTE=mvsjrs;25516329]I decided that the pump noise was still too high after insulating around pipe connection. So…[QUOTE] To reduce pump noise put silicone pads under the pumps and connect them with flexible hose. Silicon hose is ideal but flexible PVC is easiier and mys be enough to solve your noise problem. __________________ 240G mixed reef, 29G SPS/LPS clam tank, 50G mixed reef Current Tank Info: 300g mixed reef, 50g cube

10/24/2018, 11:58 AM	#152
mvsjrs Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 162

10/25/2018, 06:59 AM	#154
mvsjrs Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 162	Without being accused of shilling for anyone, BRS (BulkReefSupply) did a very nice job on a clownfish harem tank. Many of their finding are similar to cichlids and my tank approach. https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/video...-investigates/

10/29/2018, 07:56 AM	#155
mvsjrs Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 162	Here is the attraction of putting the live rock in the inductor tank. Water changes. By flushing the tank water through the inductor tank, the system is operating less like a conical settling tank and more like a funnel. Here are the first three buckets after flushing. Then I did a second small rinse to get the last. This will not matter when I flush to the septic because then the inductor tank will drain to the bottom. In this example, I con only drain the inductor to the height of the water bucket. Here they are all in comparison:

10/29/2018, 08:00 AM	#156
mvsjrs Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 162	The next day I filter the water bucket through a 75 micro film and collect the following detritus. Not that much of the dark water flowed right through the film but 75 is the smallest I have. Yuck! But hooray for all the detritus that gets sucked out in a water change without any additional siphoning of the gravel.

11/01/2018, 07:58 PM	#157
mvsjrs Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 162	I decided that the pump noise was still too high after insulating around pipe connection. So… I removed the TurboSea 1740P (display tank fed) and PanWorld 200PS. Then I moved the Dolphin Diamond Amp Master 6250-T3 to run the DT and refugium manifold in order replaced the other two pumps. Before: After:

11/01/2018, 08:00 PM	#158
mvsjrs Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 162	As you can see, I then used the space freed up from moving the pumps to install an electronics board and mounted all the electrical stuff...

11/11/2018, 07:32 PM	#159
mvsjrs Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 162	Critical difference between the previous picture and this next picture? Labels...!

11/14/2018, 09:09 AM	#161
mvsjrs Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 162	So, the good, the bad, the ugly. My LPS overall are static/poor health—although more static than looking like they are going to expire. They definitely don’t pass the 30k foot visual test. While I have lowered faith home testing, these are what I got from what kits I had on hand. Unless otherwise noted, the tests are taken from water sourced in the inductor tank since it is the immediate outflow of the display tank. 8.4 (Hanna pH pen) 1.024/1.025 salinity (Milwaukee tester) 13.7 kH (Hanna calorimeter) 0 ammonia (test strip) <0.25 ammonia (Mardel kit) 0 nitrite (test strip) 0 nitrate (Hagen kit #1) 0 nitrate (Hagen kit #2) 2-5 ppm nitrate (Salifert kit) 12.5 ppm nitrate (Tetra kit) 0.1-0.25 ppm phosphate (Sera kit) 79.9 degF refugium (monitor) 78.6 refugium (pH pen) 78.5 sump (pH pen) 79.5 chiller Because I got any ammonia reading at all on the sump, I tested directly in the display tank. 0.25-0.5 ammonia in DT (test strip) Yikes! Here’s my current theory. The heavy fish load is producing high levels of ammonia in the water column before it is taken up by bacteria. So the common reading is zero but a lot of ammonia is always being processed through the water column. This is irritating the LPS so they are more retracted/stagnated in growth. A given problem with this setup from the beginning was that it was a commercial “reef ready” tank and therefore had one 1” bulkhead and one ¾” bulkhead. That was why another bulkhead was drilled through the back wall in order to safely run a siphon on the ¾” with two 1” pipes as backup. So, that means that turnover of water through the display tank is significantly reduced and the afore mentioned ammonia would be present in the DT then zero in the sump area. So, for a couple of days, I will run the DT flow at full capacity with one 1” pipe. It will not siphon because the head pressure from the pump reduces the pump output too heavily and it is additional to the ¾" pipe. I might get a siphon by changing the stand tubes elevations so that only the 1” operates but for proof-of-principle, we will operate less optimally (noise) and safely (fail safe overflow) for a few days to see if we can get the ammonia to the live rock more quickly and have some visual improvement in corals.

11/24/2018, 03:20 PM	#163
mvsjrs Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 162	OMG the noise!! Pulling water straight down a drain tube is the noisiest thing known to mankind! I would rather be at the range playing with the 7.62 mm short barrel. This has been the loudest 10 days of my aquarium life. And the result...nothing. No change in polyp extension and no reading of ammonia above the "hum, is that zero or a little colored?" level. I do believe that I see a little color change in the test kits/strips but I am not very good at reading them. I also pulled out and added a PhosBan reactor in the sump with a PowerClear 40 powerhead set to lowest flow and 5" of media. After three days, I see no change in the lowest reading from the 0.1-0.25 ppm phosphate (Sera kit)...but the spectrum of colors does not start at white/clear but instead a very light blue. I can only say the lightest blue seems to match which would give no more than 0.1-0.25 ppm phosphate and possibly zero. Certainly no Perry Mason moment.

11/24/2018, 03:31 PM	#164
mvsjrs Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 162	Summary: Starburst Polyp Rock Indonesia - going gangbusters Aussie Torch Coral - doing well enough that it seems to have split Green People Eaters Polyp Rock Zoanthus - seemingly dead colony regenerating Alveopora Coral Indonesia - no change ORA® Red Goniopora Coral - skeletonized but polyps still clearly present Ultra Hammer Coral - no change in 3 months Aussie Cespitularia Coral - finally died after 3 months Aussie Sinularia Finger Leather Coral (several sp.) - never extend polyps Toadstool Mushroom Leather Coral Indonesia - never extends polyps but the trunk & cap are getting thicker Red Bubble Tip Anemone - going gangbusters Bubble Tip Anemone Green - hiding between back wall and back of rock formation Rose Bulb Anemone (Indonesia) - hiding Mushroom Ricordea, Rhodactis Indonesia - unremarkable =concerning.

11/24/2018, 04:06 PM	#165
mvsjrs Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 162	Conversation with H. at LiveAquaria - Possibilities: (1) Too strong of linear flow from closed loop. (2) Too intense lighting (especially goniopora sp.) (3) Too much nutrient uptake in chaeto for soft corals. (1) Too strong of linear flow from closed loop. The CL was intended for SPS tank, but since it was long since already bought, the AmpMaster was used. In the past, I have tried restricting the flow with the ball valves in the CL but maybe I gradually wean the tank down on the CL to zero and rely only on the one MP40 (EcoTech not Maschinenpistole) and the return pump. (2) Too intense lighting (especially goniopora sp.) May just be the flower pot getting too much intensity. I know PAR readings should really be the guide but buying another diagnostic tool...blah. It is interesting that the toadstool is getting enough light to grow without extending its polyps. I really only think this could be because the canopy is relatively short, not because the 2 Radion X15w G4 Pro and 2 T5HO 24" retrofits are producing too much intensity. But without PAR, who knows. (3) Too much nutrient uptake in chaeto for soft corals. In three months under the Kessel H380, the few remaining strands of dying chaeto under an old 10K MH have grown into a full 60 gallon cube of rotating, stringy chaeto. I once have disposed of a 2½ gallon pail of chaeto just by grabbing the mass and chopping out a segment with scissors. I clearly "overfeed" from the stereotype SPS reefer but I come from a fish first background in freshwater with massive water changes (my beloved polypterus ornatipinnis "Bru'te" would eat an adult mouse or full grown mbuna daily if I let him). So, all that food is certainly creating a nutrient rich environment. If the chaeto were outcompleting the soft corals, you could certainly end up with restricted coral growth and massive chaeto. Algae in the display tank is not a good indicator for this tank because there are too many fishie mouths nipping at anything edible. Opinions on chaeto starving out soft corals?

12/02/2018, 01:36 PM	#169
mvsjrs Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 162	Cleared out some chaeto. It is a 2½ gal trash can, loosely packed then packed down. It barely made an impact in the chaeto ball but I did not want to move too fast with a change. I will do it a couple more times every couple days. I like to have enough to sell some through Craigslist when someone needs it locally. Too much hassle to ship but it's good for the struggling hobbyist occasionally.

12/02/2018, 01:58 PM	#170
mvsjrs Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 162	So, when I moved the pumps to make more space and reduce the noise in the Fish Cave, I decided to clean the pumps. The TurboSea 1740P (a.k.a BlueLine 70HD, PanWorld 200PS) had the following in the impeller but just kept whirling along. Then, since the skimmer had stopped collecting any skimmate for several days, I cleaned the VARIOS-6 intake pump and the VARIOS-6 air pump impeller on the Reef Octopus skimmer. The following was hidden on the intake pump's intake orifice inside the debris screen and some partially sucked into the impeller. The impeller for the air pump looked like this and included a little debris: That's a good statement on preventative maintenance being valuable in addition to solving an observed problem. The skimmate cup lid also got a cleaning although the neck was nice and clean because of the automated neck cleaner...good argument for its effectiveness:

12/02/2018, 02:08 PM	#171
mvsjrs Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 162	So, back to solving my ULNS problem, somewhere I never thought I would be, breaking out my freshwater planting chemicals, I located KNO3 and mixed a solution. Effective Water Volume = 70 (DT) + 120 (refugium) + 40 (inductor) +45 (sump) = 275 gallons. http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/calculator.htm I mixed up a solution as follows using their great colculator: I chose a 100 gallon value as the equivalent size of the actually occupied space. At 20 ml dosing per day, I can increase to 40 and 60 ml with my dosing cup to move up to an equivalent 300 gallon EWV.

12/02/2018, 07:15 PM	#172
mvsjrs Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 162	Broke down and added a powerhead in the tank. Two months ago I turned of the basement filtration in order to feed. Well, that left no water circulation and without adequate oxygenation from water movement, I lost several of the more active fish. I also added a beeping alarm that activates when the power is not being supplied to the DT pump circuit. Further, the CL pump was put on a different circuit loop so that it would continue to run during feeding when the DT pump is off. A battery on the powerhead further protects against the same situation if the GFCI from trips. Now, I feel very confident that a repeat with not occur.

12/02/2018, 07:37 PM	#173
mvsjrs Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 162	Financial update: $755 of crap sold or returned since starting the project. The other side of the ledger is not balanced! Gotta love this hobby...

12/27/2018, 05:42 PM	#174
mvsjrs Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 162	There has been real progress with increasing nitrates. Dosing 40 ml nitrate each morning directly (for maximum effect) to the display tank. The chaeto lighting has been reduced by 3 hours. About half the chaeto has been removed (even sold some!). The fish are about as fat as they can get from all the feeding. But, still no measurable nitrates in the sump and the skimmer production remains reduced. The other half of the refugium (so essentially a second 60 gallon cube) has been modified to prevent escapees so the gymnothorax tile will have his own special spot after he reaches maturity and full saltwater rather than brackish. I will leave the mollies behind so I don’t end up with an explosion of mollies in my reef display tank—those suckers are resilient! The softies are still hampered by the swings in nitrate availability but they are opening and extending their polyps. The flower pot has polyps re-emerging from the bleached out region. I also lowered it from its higher perch because the shaded parts of its skeleton were doing better than the unshaded parts.

12/27/2018, 07:09 PM	#175
mvsjrs Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 162	So, all these low nitrate problems have me thinking. If turnover of the DT to the sump is fairly slow (which it is; and I don’t mean water circulation which is very high) and I start controlled, steady nitrate dosing via a doser into the DT, could the sump and fuge continue to create an ULNS outside the DT? If so, could my original concept of a dual DT system with one DT targeting softies and one DT targeting SPS possibly be implementable? Now, with a tightening budget and current mediocre coral husbandry experience, I am not burning to delve into a second DT and into SPS specifically. I can always test for nitrate and phosphate but two established, functioning display tanks would really be necessary to prove out the concept.