Coral Tank from Canada (1350gal Display Tank) - Page 6

plyr58 · 03/12/2010, 09:38 PM

tag

Dipandots · 03/12/2010, 10:40 PM

Simply amazing. Very curious how the multi-level viewing will work. Following this one for sure.

nineball · 03/12/2010, 11:13 PM

As a followup to my initial thread in the newb section for those who have followed me here. I have 1500 lbs of Jakarta premium live rock branching type, 200 lbs of shelf rock and 500 lbs of Fiji.

I managed to get two 350 gallon storage tanks and 400 gal of ro/di water. All this with a skimmer, heaters, pumps for water movement. I expect to have to hold the live rock for at least 3 weeks or longer before I begin to aqua scape the the display tanks.

I have a question I would like to ask AND establish a precedent of sorts for future practice..........if humanly possible. I really would like some advice from a base of experience and knowledge rather than speculation.

There will be times we can explore a variety of options to challenges but this following type of question is an attempt to identify the conventional wisdom and avoid speculation.

OK the question......someone suggested in the other thread that I dip the live rock in fresh water or concentrated salt water or best option club soda.

Should I dip the rock before I store it? and or, after storage before placing it in the tank?

Which is the best dip? fresh/salt/club soda something else??

How long should the dip be?

can I expect a cycle in storage AND in the destination tank again???

Sorry if any of these questions are dumb but I'm learning to ask anyway.

Thanks to anyone who takes the time to answer.

Peter

Bayliner · 03/13/2010, 01:58 AM

Hi Peter,
In my opinion the reason we buy live rock is because it has living things on/in it. I have read so many posts with people buying live rock and then doing so many strange things to it to kill off all the living animals on it before putting it into the display tank and it really confuses me.

I can tell you from experience that I bought live rock that did not sit in a fish store, it was really fresh, and I went through a good cycle with it, but a lot of stuff survived the cycle and I now have little copepods, amphoides, worms, and I would guess beneficial bacteria all over my rock, not to mention some really nice purple coralline algae growing on it.

So although I am by no means an experienced reefer, I can say my personal opinion is that storing it in fresh water, or concentrated salt water, or club soda to me seems like just a way to kill off all the beneficial things we buy our live rock for. You could buy base rock and seed it with bacteria from a bottle and get the same results.

Ok enough rambling .... just my thoughts.... keep up the great work.... can't wait to watch this tank " come to life ".....

Cam

Bayliner · 03/13/2010, 02:15 AM

ok... more thoughts on this.....

I think the reason people kill off the living stuff on their live rock is so they can cycle the tank faster and put fish in it.... If you store your rock in your garage with a heater, and skimmer I would think 50% of your cycle will happen in the garage (a good thing). When you’re ready to put it in your display tank you will have some really nice "live Rock" and your cycle of the display tank will be cut in half (another good thing).

If it was me I would cycle your rock in your garage with a skimmer and heater while you are building the display tank. Worst case is you can always dip the rock later in fresh water or club soda if you decide you need to, but you can never bring back the living animals that it came with on it after they are gone.
Cam

adddo · 03/13/2010, 03:25 AM

Nice! Tagging along!

t kish · 03/13/2010, 04:39 AM

Following from just down the road in Stoney Creek , what an amazing start.
Best of luck with your build , your making Canadians proud

.

Tim K

swissgaurd · 03/13/2010, 07:39 AM

peter what bayliner is saying is correct.
why dip your rock,your only going to kill bacte,if you were going to dip ,then you might as well bought dry rock.
you bought fresh rock this is the best way to go,you will get the best bacteria this way.

during this 3 week period i would do a 100% waterchange at 1 1/2 weeks
keep the rock dark,this will prevent algae blooms.
also when you put the rock in the display dont turn the lights on for 6 weeks.
this helps prevent algae while your tank is cycling.

vic

nineball · 03/13/2010, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swissgaurd

peter what bayliner is saying is correct.
why dip your rock,your only going to kill bacte,if you were going to dip ,then you might as well bought dry rock.
you bought fresh rock this is the best way to go,you will get the best bacteria this way.

during this 3 week period i would do a 100% waterchange at 1 1/2 weeks
keep the rock dark,this will prevent algae blooms.
also when you put the rock in the display dont turn the lights on for 6 weeks.
this helps prevent algae while your tank is cycling.

vic

Fabulous, this is the kind of advice I need and so much appreciate. Thank you for taking the time to help. Please peek in from time to time and feel free to comment at any time.

Peter

nineball · 03/13/2010, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliner

ok... more thoughts on this.....

I think the reason people kill off the living stuff on their live rock is so they can cycle the tank faster and put fish in it.... If you store your rock in your garage with a heater, and skimmer I would think 50% of your cycle will happen in the garage (a good thing). When you’re ready to put it in your display tank you will have some really nice "live Rock" and your cycle of the display tank will be cut in half (another good thing).

If it was me I would cycle your rock in your garage with a skimmer and heater while you are building the display tank. Worst case is you can always dip the rock later in fresh water or club soda if you decide you need to, but you can never bring back the living animals that it came with on it after they are gone.
Cam

Cam, thanks a ton for taking so much time to suggest and elaborate. I am going to take your advice. I'll also be taking pics to document my behavior for critique later. I am hoping to avoid if at all possible having to empty 25 ft of aquarium because of obvious silly mistakes. I know I will always run that risk and I have psyched myself up for the posibility............. The conventional wisdom I have gathered is that the process of bringing in 'Live Rock' is by its nature 'LIVE' so it does seem kind of silly to kill off the most beneficial aspect to the product.

Peter

nineball · 03/13/2010, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zaheda

Good luck with your build.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmaneyapanda

Your tank is bigger than my house. Loving it. Your home is beautiful too. Glad to see something like this in North America.

Thank you both for your support........glad to have you aboard.

Peter

nineball · 03/13/2010, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swissgaurd

go canada
or should i say go peter.
excellent build.

go to oakville quite often.im located in streetsville,if you ever need a hand dont be scared to ask.

vic

Noted and as stated above your help is appreciated. Thank you Vic.

Peter

nineball · 03/13/2010, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken_Baird

Good God, I just realized I have a 120G nano for a tank!

Are you using any local "reef" talent for this build (be it working or consulting) or is it all your baby?

Tagging along...

For projects like this as Chingchai would say you need three things.........

Courage

Great team

and a little bit of money!!!!!

Perhaps a fourth.....I can't seem to remember........Oh yeah I think it had something to do with medication!!!

Peter

nineball · 03/13/2010, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante_JoseCuerv

WOW!!! Now this is a crazy cool build! SUBSCRIBED!!!!

Good luck with everything, hope everything goes smoothly.
Cheers

Thanks for the support.

Peter

nineball · 03/13/2010, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adddo

Nice! Tagging along!

Thanks Bjarne and welcome aboard.

Peter

bhammer · 03/13/2010, 10:45 AM

To the Rock..... I did not clean my 300#s of live rock. Like you, I posted here with the question and I got many different answers, even some who told me to clean it with muriatic acid. I thought wow, all that good mother nature on there and I am going to kill it.

My plan of attack was to look in the big holes with a flash light for any larger hitch hikers but I never found any. When I place the rock in my tank, I used several different traps to try and catch critters. I had some luck with some parasites and such but I did not catch all of them. I can say that I have all kinds of funny life in my tank along with some stars, a baby urchin, some sorts of very small jelly fish and pods... There have been downsides!

I have a Yellow Tang that has two parasites on it. I have been unable to catch the YT so far and I fear that I may ultimately have to tear down some of the tank.

I did the rock with the understanding that I may have to fight some battles but I am glad I did what I did. We go so far to recreate that perfect reef but yet we nuke rock.

IMHO, I think if you are willing to have some livestock die and you are willing to fight the battle, why would you remove such diversity from your rock. It's a gamble and I think it's your choice.

nineball · 03/13/2010, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t kish

Following from just down the road in Stoney Creek , what an amazing start.
Best of luck with your build , your making Canadians proud

.

Tim K

Thanks Tim, we have a long way to go to catch up to the standards set in Thailand!!

The truth is I hope this is a win for Reef Central to strengthen our community. We ought to be building a monument to Chingchai and David as they were responsible for giving me the courage to try this through the exposure at RC.

Melting pot philosophy eh? How Canadian of me!!!

Peter

amore169 · 03/13/2010, 11:03 AM

Great build!!

nineball · 03/13/2010, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhammer

To the Rock..... I did not clean my 300#s of live rock. Like you, I posted here with the question and I got many different answers, even some who told me to clean it with muriatic acid. I thought wow, all that good mother nature on there and I am going to kill it.

My plan of attack was to look in the big holes with a flash light for any larger hitch hikers but I never found any. When I place the rock in my tank, I used several different traps to try and catch critters. I had some luck with some parasites and such but I did not catch all of them. I can say that I have all kinds of funny life in my tank along with some stars, a baby urchin, some sorts of very small jelly fish and pods... There have been downsides!

I have a Yellow Tang that has two parasites on it. I have been unable to catch the YT so far and I fear that I may ultimately have to tear down some of the tank.

I did the rock with the understanding that I may have to fight some battles but I am glad I did what I did. We go so far to recreate that perfect reef but yet we nuke rock.

IMHO, I think if you are willing to have some livestock die and you are willing to fight the battle, why would you remove such diversity from your rock. It's a gamble and I think it's your choice.

Thanks for sharing your experience. It certainly is consistent with the general feedback I have been getting. I know there are other points of view out there and I do NOT want to divert this thread into a debating forum at all costs. I just want to know what's possible and the associated risks. Then its my choice, my responsibility and my consequence from that point on.

I should mention that you have raised another point that is central for me but I don't have the time to elaborate on it at the moment but I will return to it later and that is the expectations we have for the ideal and what constitutes success in this domain.

Peter

Peter

bhammer · 03/13/2010, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nineball

Thanks for sharing your experience.

You are welcome. That is the great thing about these forums.

Quote:

It certainly is consistent with the general feedback I have been getting. I know there are other points of view out there and I do NOT want to divert this thread into a debating forum at all costs. I just want to know what's possible and the associated risks. Then its my choice, my responsibility and my consequence from that point on.

That was the way I handled it as well. I look for feedback and then make an informed decsion based on the feedback received. that's all we can do right.

Quote:

I should mention that you have raised another point that is central for me but I don't have the time to elaborate on it at the moment but I will return to it later and that is the expectations we have for the ideal and what constitutes success in this domain.

Yes, I'd start another thread for that one.

nineball · 03/13/2010, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amore169

Great build!!

Thank you Arnie, good to see you on this build.

Peter

kinlayan · 03/13/2010, 04:42 PM

looks like it will be an incredible build !!

skanderson · 03/13/2010, 04:45 PM

i am also a fan of not dipping live rock. the only problem that can occur is introduction of unwant macro organisms, ie aptasia or crabs. one way around this problem would be to buy a big unreefsafe wrasse and butterfly and let it loose on the rock for a few weeks after the cycle. otherwise i would say before you put the rock in the big tank put it somewhere you can keep an eye on it for a few weeks to see what is crawling around. with my next tank i will be doing a mix of dry rock and live rock from several locales to get a good mix of flora and fauna, but i am not putting it in the tank until a month or so of quarantine. i know all of this is alot easier said than done, but getting rid of any pests from a reef the size of yours would be a nightmare, go slow and be careful. btw i hope you have someone to do the edging on that garden, i hate trying to keep the grass out of my beds. keep up the nice work and thanks for all the posts

nineball · 03/13/2010, 07:33 PM

Anyone following this thread from the beginning knows that the opening chapter was the Tank Arrival. That's a highlight for most of us and appears to represent a significant milestone in every build.

However as most of us know the real beginning starts with a dream against a backdrop of hard cold reality.......for many of us thats an unfinished basement, a soon to be remodeled room, or at best the re-designation of an existing space from one purpose to another. In my case it was a decision to renovate an unfinished basement of close to four thousand sq ft.

One of the two things that I knew it would have was a pool table because my best friend was the only person to win the World Professional snooker championship from outside the British Isles in over eighty years. He still is. And if you are from the UK and over 40 years of age you probably knew where you were the day he had the worlds first perfect game in competitive play that was televised by the BBC Live. So the custom pool table was a key feature in the new environment.

The second element was to be an aquarium. To be honest, the initial thought was to have something considerably more modest than the current blueprint calls for. It was Chingchai's fault. I was doing research on the various options to consider and a niece had recommended that I spend some time on Reef Central. I somehow ended up on the large tank forum and fell into an early build from Thailand almost from the beginning. I got hooked (no pun intended) right from the outset. Here was someone transforming a garage into a dream suite with a set of graphics that was second to none in the spirit of what could be and an apparent determination to produce the real thing without compromise.

He had several advantages over me starting with the fact that he had already built a system that had achieved a tank of the month status previously. At the time I landed on his thread I didn't even know what TOTM meant! He had discipline, tons and tons of discipline and he had standards.....boy did he have standards. It was so much more than simply arranging enough funds although I won't hide the need for sufficient resources if you start out on a journey of this type. As his dream became real mine grew.......and grew.....and grew.

I introduced my architect to Ching's thread as an indication of the standard I wanted to achieve. The result of that initiative was that the tank became the signature for the entire Reno if not the entire house. It was to be a 30 ft long L shaped tank until we discovered that the two thousand mile overland trip from ATM in Las Vegas to Oakville would have required a police escort for a wide load and so the final measurement came in at 24ft with the short side at 8 feet and the long side at 16 ft.

I had decided not to try and duplicate Chingchai's deep and high cube nor would I turn to David Saxby's fabulous landscape. It was then that I came up with the idea for the Four Grand Masters. Why not create a suite of island formations that would try and capture the design essence of the most influential aquarists in the world. So there's the basic design goal and the associated challenge.

I also learned from Ching that the fish room, which is a misnomer of sorts, could contain in itself, display tanks and features that would bring the underlying support systems we are all so proud of out of the closet and into the actual experience of a well managed environment. This I learned is not solely dependent on having a full tank of money as much as exceptional discipline and the right design philosophy from the beginning. If I'm right this hobby will evolve from an obsession on the display tank itself to an integrated and complete ecosystem that is comprehensively experienced by both the casual observer as well as the serious hobbyist. So another design goal is clear then, the support infrastructure will be as much a part of the experience as the display tank itself. This is truly going to require some hard planning at the detail level because as we all know so well marine environment support is messy, smelly and noisy. Repeat the last three two syllable words a number of times because overcoming this challenge in a relevant way for most folks needs to accomplish this with more discipline than money.

In fairness, as you will see, I got tremendous support from my architect with forward planning on a number of issues to go along way to realizing success in a meaningful way. I also had the advantage of a fresh start with the removal of every impediment in the basement except the concrete floor (which in fact was slightly modified but I haven't told my wife yet!!!). I told her the water table had to be adjusted to help balance the aquifer for her gardens!!!!!!

OK two things before I take a break from this monotonous monologue. First I will try and dig up as many before photos so that no one accuses me of having too easy a time of it. So even with the dirty laundry, (please ask the kids to leave the room) I will attempt to take you back to the beginning with some photographs before I continue writing anymore.

Second I may fall back a bit in responding to questions as the process of putting the pics into this thing is very very labour intensive so even if it takes a bit I will get back to you as soon as I can............

Posidion · 03/13/2010, 07:37 PM

agreed on rock just cure and watch for un wanted critters ie bad crabs shrimp and snails. the comment from the other thread about the club soda was in refrence to ridding a pest shrimp or crab from a hole in the rock. if you do notice any stow aways that you dont want to put in the tank and cant catch them that is when you dip an individual rock in fresh/hypo (low salinity) say 1.015-1.017, not high this allows most bacteria and other desirables to surrive while any unwanted inverts will scurry out of the rock to look for better water conditions. if that dosent send them running then people have said the club soda spot application will do the trick, usually has a neg result on critter so if you were hoping to place it in a species nano display its possible you wont be able to.

03/12/2010, 10:40 PM	#127
Dipandots Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: East Lansing, MI Posts: 175	Simply amazing. Very curious how the multi-level viewing will work. Following this one for sure. __________________ Current Tank Info: 24g Nano Cube, 4x24w T5HO, MP10, Aquaticlife 115 Skimmer, CPR HOB Fuge

03/12/2010, 11:13 PM	#128
nineball Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Oakville Ontario Canada Posts: 2,518	As a followup to my initial thread in the newb section for those who have followed me here. I have 1500 lbs of Jakarta premium live rock branching type, 200 lbs of shelf rock and 500 lbs of Fiji. I managed to get two 350 gallon storage tanks and 400 gal of ro/di water. All this with a skimmer, heaters, pumps for water movement. I expect to have to hold the live rock for at least 3 weeks or longer before I begin to aqua scape the the display tanks. I have a question I would like to ask AND establish a precedent of sorts for future practice..........if humanly possible. I really would like some advice from a base of experience and knowledge rather than speculation. There will be times we can explore a variety of options to challenges but this following type of question is an attempt to identify the conventional wisdom and avoid speculation. OK the question......someone suggested in the other thread that I dip the live rock in fresh water or concentrated salt water or best option club soda. Should I dip the rock before I store it? and or, after storage before placing it in the tank? Which is the best dip? fresh/salt/club soda something else?? How long should the dip be? can I expect a cycle in storage AND in the destination tank again??? Sorry if any of these questions are dumb but I'm learning to ask anyway. Thanks to anyone who takes the time to answer. Peter Last edited by nineball; 03/12/2010 at 11:18 PM. Reason: can't type

03/13/2010, 01:58 AM	#129
Bayliner Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Stoney Creek, Ontario Posts: 971	Hi Peter, In my opinion the reason we buy live rock is because it has living things on/in it. I have read so many posts with people buying live rock and then doing so many strange things to it to kill off all the living animals on it before putting it into the display tank and it really confuses me. I can tell you from experience that I bought live rock that did not sit in a fish store, it was really fresh, and I went through a good cycle with it, but a lot of stuff survived the cycle and I now have little copepods, amphoides, worms, and I would guess beneficial bacteria all over my rock, not to mention some really nice purple coralline algae growing on it. So although I am by no means an experienced reefer, I can say my personal opinion is that storing it in fresh water, or concentrated salt water, or club soda to me seems like just a way to kill off all the beneficial things we buy our live rock for. You could buy base rock and seed it with bacteria from a bottle and get the same results. Ok enough rambling .... just my thoughts.... keep up the great work.... can't wait to watch this tank " come to life "..... Cam __________________ A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Darn...that was fun!" Current Tank Info: 75g Reef, mostly SPS, 2-250W 20K MH, 2-VHO Actinics Full Zeovit as of Jan 20th 2011 Last edited by Bayliner; 03/13/2010 at 02:20 AM.

03/13/2010, 02:15 AM	#130
Bayliner Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Stoney Creek, Ontario Posts: 971	ok... more thoughts on this..... I think the reason people kill off the living stuff on their live rock is so they can cycle the tank faster and put fish in it.... If you store your rock in your garage with a heater, and skimmer I would think 50% of your cycle will happen in the garage (a good thing). When you’re ready to put it in your display tank you will have some really nice "live Rock" and your cycle of the display tank will be cut in half (another good thing). If it was me I would cycle your rock in your garage with a skimmer and heater while you are building the display tank. Worst case is you can always dip the rock later in fresh water or club soda if you decide you need to, but you can never bring back the living animals that it came with on it after they are gone. Cam __________________ A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Darn...that was fun!" Current Tank Info: 75g Reef, mostly SPS, 2-250W 20K MH, 2-VHO Actinics Full Zeovit as of Jan 20th 2011 Last edited by Bayliner; 03/13/2010 at 02:21 AM.

03/13/2010, 03:25 AM	#131
adddo “Goodnight, tiny humans.” Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 1,008	Nice! Tagging along! __________________ If Pacman had affected us as kids, then we'd all be running around in a dark room, munching pills and listening to repetitive music //Bjarne

03/12/2010, 09:38 PM	#126
plyr58 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 747	tag

03/13/2010, 04:39 AM	#132
t kish Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Stoney Creek Ontario Canada Posts: 185	Following from just down the road in Stoney Creek , what an amazing start. Best of luck with your build , your making Canadians proud . Tim K __________________ Learning stage Current Tank Info: 46g with 35g basement sump .

03/13/2010, 07:39 AM	#133
swissgaurd Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Mississauga,Canada Posts: 323	peter what bayliner is saying is correct. why dip your rock,your only going to kill bacte,if you were going to dip ,then you might as well bought dry rock. you bought fresh rock this is the best way to go,you will get the best bacteria this way. during this 3 week period i would do a 100% waterchange at 1 1/2 weeks keep the rock dark,this will prevent algae blooms. also when you put the rock in the display dont turn the lights on for 6 weeks. this helps prevent algae while your tank is cycling. vic

03/13/2010, 10:45 AM	#141
bhammer Addicted User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 743	To the Rock..... I did not clean my 300#s of live rock. Like you, I posted here with the question and I got many different answers, even some who told me to clean it with muriatic acid. I thought wow, all that good mother nature on there and I am going to kill it. My plan of attack was to look in the big holes with a flash light for any larger hitch hikers but I never found any. When I place the rock in my tank, I used several different traps to try and catch critters. I had some luck with some parasites and such but I did not catch all of them. I can say that I have all kinds of funny life in my tank along with some stars, a baby urchin, some sorts of very small jelly fish and pods... There have been downsides! I have a Yellow Tang that has two parasites on it. I have been unable to catch the YT so far and I fear that I may ultimately have to tear down some of the tank. I did the rock with the understanding that I may have to fight some battles but I am glad I did what I did. We go so far to recreate that perfect reef but yet we nuke rock. IMHO, I think if you are willing to have some livestock die and you are willing to fight the battle, why would you remove such diversity from your rock. It's a gamble and I think it's your choice.

03/13/2010, 11:03 AM	#143
amore169 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,250	Great build!! __________________ Arnie. Current Tank Info: 400 Gallon Starphire Rimless. 8 A360WE Kessils with controller. Sfiligoi Infinity DDE 6X250 light fixture. Bubble King Internal 300 Deluxe. 215 Gallon Oceanic Starphire Ultimate FOWRL. 34 Gallon Solana.

03/13/2010, 04:42 PM	#147
kinlayan Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Cape Town , South Africa Posts: 822	looks like it will be an incredible build !!

03/13/2010, 04:45 PM	#148
skanderson Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: baraboo,wi Posts: 428	i am also a fan of not dipping live rock. the only problem that can occur is introduction of unwant macro organisms, ie aptasia or crabs. one way around this problem would be to buy a big unreefsafe wrasse and butterfly and let it loose on the rock for a few weeks after the cycle. otherwise i would say before you put the rock in the big tank put it somewhere you can keep an eye on it for a few weeks to see what is crawling around. with my next tank i will be doing a mix of dry rock and live rock from several locales to get a good mix of flora and fauna, but i am not putting it in the tank until a month or so of quarantine. i know all of this is alot easier said than done, but getting rid of any pests from a reef the size of yours would be a nightmare, go slow and be careful. btw i hope you have someone to do the edging on that garden, i hate trying to keep the grass out of my beds. keep up the nice work and thanks for all the posts

03/13/2010, 07:33 PM	#149
nineball Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Oakville Ontario Canada Posts: 2,518	Chapter One ---- The History Anyone following this thread from the beginning knows that the opening chapter was the Tank Arrival. That's a highlight for most of us and appears to represent a significant milestone in every build. However as most of us know the real beginning starts with a dream against a backdrop of hard cold reality.......for many of us thats an unfinished basement, a soon to be remodeled room, or at best the re-designation of an existing space from one purpose to another. In my case it was a decision to renovate an unfinished basement of close to four thousand sq ft. One of the two things that I knew it would have was a pool table because my best friend was the only person to win the World Professional snooker championship from outside the British Isles in over eighty years. He still is. And if you are from the UK and over 40 years of age you probably knew where you were the day he had the worlds first perfect game in competitive play that was televised by the BBC Live. So the custom pool table was a key feature in the new environment. The second element was to be an aquarium. To be honest, the initial thought was to have something considerably more modest than the current blueprint calls for. It was Chingchai's fault. I was doing research on the various options to consider and a niece had recommended that I spend some time on Reef Central. I somehow ended up on the large tank forum and fell into an early build from Thailand almost from the beginning. I got hooked (no pun intended) right from the outset. Here was someone transforming a garage into a dream suite with a set of graphics that was second to none in the spirit of what could be and an apparent determination to produce the real thing without compromise. He had several advantages over me starting with the fact that he had already built a system that had achieved a tank of the month status previously. At the time I landed on his thread I didn't even know what TOTM meant! He had discipline, tons and tons of discipline and he had standards.....boy did he have standards. It was so much more than simply arranging enough funds although I won't hide the need for sufficient resources if you start out on a journey of this type. As his dream became real mine grew.......and grew.....and grew. I introduced my architect to Ching's thread as an indication of the standard I wanted to achieve. The result of that initiative was that the tank became the signature for the entire Reno if not the entire house. It was to be a 30 ft long L shaped tank until we discovered that the two thousand mile overland trip from ATM in Las Vegas to Oakville would have required a police escort for a wide load and so the final measurement came in at 24ft with the short side at 8 feet and the long side at 16 ft. I had decided not to try and duplicate Chingchai's deep and high cube nor would I turn to David Saxby's fabulous landscape. It was then that I came up with the idea for the Four Grand Masters. Why not create a suite of island formations that would try and capture the design essence of the most influential aquarists in the world. So there's the basic design goal and the associated challenge. I also learned from Ching that the fish room, which is a misnomer of sorts, could contain in itself, display tanks and features that would bring the underlying support systems we are all so proud of out of the closet and into the actual experience of a well managed environment. This I learned is not solely dependent on having a full tank of money as much as exceptional discipline and the right design philosophy from the beginning. If I'm right this hobby will evolve from an obsession on the display tank itself to an integrated and complete ecosystem that is comprehensively experienced by both the casual observer as well as the serious hobbyist. So another design goal is clear then, the support infrastructure will be as much a part of the experience as the display tank itself. This is truly going to require some hard planning at the detail level because as we all know so well marine environment support is messy, smelly and noisy. Repeat the last three two syllable words a number of times because overcoming this challenge in a relevant way for most folks needs to accomplish this with more discipline than money. In fairness, as you will see, I got tremendous support from my architect with forward planning on a number of issues to go along way to realizing success in a meaningful way. I also had the advantage of a fresh start with the removal of every impediment in the basement except the concrete floor (which in fact was slightly modified but I haven't told my wife yet!!!). I told her the water table had to be adjusted to help balance the aquifer for her gardens!!!!!! OK two things before I take a break from this monotonous monologue. First I will try and dig up as many before photos so that no one accuses me of having too easy a time of it. So even with the dirty laundry, (please ask the kids to leave the room) I will attempt to take you back to the beginning with some photographs before I continue writing anymore. Second I may fall back a bit in responding to questions as the process of putting the pics into this thing is very very labour intensive so even if it takes a bit I will get back to you as soon as I can............

03/13/2010, 07:37 PM	#150
Posidion Coral Gardner Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: niagara falls (under them) Posts: 355	agreed on rock just cure and watch for un wanted critters ie bad crabs shrimp and snails. the comment from the other thread about the club soda was in refrence to ridding a pest shrimp or crab from a hole in the rock. if you do notice any stow aways that you dont want to put in the tank and cant catch them that is when you dip an individual rock in fresh/hypo (low salinity) say 1.015-1.017, not high this allows most bacteria and other desirables to surrive while any unwanted inverts will scurry out of the rock to look for better water conditions. if that dosent send them running then people have said the club soda spot application will do the trick, usually has a neg result on critter so if you were hoping to place it in a species nano display its possible you wont be able to.