How many drains on in-line frag type tank?

neilp2006 · 04/23/2018, 04:48 PM

I have a 20l (yay petco!) that I’m planning to turn into a mangrove shallow reef display tank. It’ll have 8-10 mangroves, some live rock, sexy shrimp and a couple tube anemones.

Will be in the basement fish-room, fed by an outlet on the return manifold, and draining back into the return section of the sump.

Question- how many drains are people putting on these in-line ancillary tanks? Was thinking of feeding with one 3/4 inch inlet, and a single 1” drain (inverted elbow for a bit of surface skimming). Should I do another a little higher for an emergency?

I’ll have it above the rest of the sump, so if it does overflow, it’ll go into the sump anyway. Would be messy, but contained. Just not sure how likely it’ll be that I’ll have something block the drain.

Thanks!

Also- same question for a 29 g cryptic. Fed from return manifold, single 1” overflow into the refugium section. Should I plan for double drains?

Cheers!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

mcgyvr · 04/23/2018, 06:10 PM

I won't do a tank unless it has a bean animal drain system on it..
Even plumbed in a small 9 gallon long fuge draining into my 40g display tank and even put a bean on it with 3/4" PVC/uniseals instead of bulkheads..
Anything else is inferior and I'm not risking water damage just because I saved a few bucks on plumbing or didn't want to drill another hole....
But if forced at gun point I might contemplate a herbie before taking that bullet like a man.

neilp2006 · 04/23/2018, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

I won't do a tank unless it has a bean animal drain system on it..
Even plumbed in a small 9 gallon long fuge draining into my 40g display tank and even put a bean on it with 3/4" PVC/uniseals instead of bulkheads..
Anything else is inferior and I'm not risking water damage just because I saved a few bucks on plumbing or didn't want to drill another hole....
But if forced at gun point I might contemplate a herbie before taking that bullet like a man.

Thanks for the reply, greatly appreciated.

I completely agree about the BA, and planned my 180 around having it. I’m just not sure where it stops though. You say you’d plumb everything with a BA? Would this include, for example, a settling /water change tank that is fed by the DT BA siphon, then overflows via 2 bulkheads into a skimmer chamber of a sump?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

mcgyvr · 04/24/2018, 04:55 AM

Any/all will have a bean...
I don't care if its a fountain with a statue of a boy peeing in it.. Its going to get a bean drain... Bird bath... bean drain..

I see no reason to accept inferiority no matter the system..

neilp2006 · 04/24/2018, 05:58 AM

So here’s another question for you- how would you implement it on, eg, the settling/WC tank?

Could you just plumb the 3 lines like a typical BA with PVC elbows etc, and not use an overflow box or weir? The 29g essentially becomes a giant overflow box, with the pipes coming out of 3 holes drilled near the top?

Similarly fir the 20l. The aim is for a clean look. Putting an overflow box with weir etc is going to clutter it up. I’m not usually into aesthetics over function- but if part of the reason for having it is to look good, and a big box of pvc elbows sits there all obvious, is there a way to avoid that? Again, do the plumbing by assuming the tank itself is the overflow box and drill 3 holes, setting them with pvc fittings as appropriate?

What about float sensors to a controller set to cut the return pump? I’d be ok with seeing some float switches on the trim of the settling tank. Could even do 3 for redundancy.

Thanks!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

mcgyvr · 04/24/2018, 06:36 AM

An overflow box really helps with surface skimming but you can certainly do a bean setup without one...

I'm not sure what you need float sensors for..
I really don't have a good understanding of what you are trying to accomplish here but still stand by "bean or die"

travis32 · 04/24/2018, 06:53 AM

I asked a similar question. I want a 55 gallon rubbermaid brute garbage can plumbed into my system to house rock and maybe some auxillary filtration (scrubber possibly) And Mcgyvr said BA! I am taking it to heart, I know good advice when I see it, I don't want my auxillary garbage can to be the cause of a flood and I like the concept that it's silent.

For my purpose the Garbage can is not a display tank, so, I have less to worry about, but, still, the risk of flood and silent running are big considerations for me.

neilp2006 · 04/24/2018, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

An overflow box really helps with surface skimming but you can certainly do a bean setup without one...

I'm not sure what you need float sensors for..
I really don't have a good understanding of what you are trying to accomplish here but still stand by "bean or die"

The float sensors would be in lieu of the trickle and full emergency pipes. If I get a block in the main drain bulkheads and the water level rises, the sensors cut return pump power and stop the tank filling, instead of going down an emergency overflow

I’ll post some pics later do better explain the layout

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

mcgyvr · 04/24/2018, 07:07 AM

Its your tank... I've made my suggestions very clear I hope..

travis32 · 04/24/2018, 07:16 AM

Neil, using floats to cut the power to the return, could work, as long as the float switches don't build up calcium and get sticky. I've had this happen... What happens if you're away, traveling for a week or two and your switches cut power to the return? Now it's dead in the water, well literally, until you get home to fix it. With the Bean animal or other emergency drain design, the tank could continue operating and not have one point of failure cause the entire system to shut down until you get home.

Last, but not least, cutting the return will cause some back flow. Will all your systems handle the drainage from all the water in the pipes and/or back flow from the return and the tank. . . ? A 20L isn't very big and won't handle a lot of back flow if something is clogged.

All it takes is one larger snail to be dumb and get stuck in one of the pipes. Or a loose rock, a clump of macro algae, a fish, etc.

neilp2006 · 04/24/2018, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

Its your tank... I've made my suggestions very clear I hope..

Sure- I’m just spitballing ideas. Nothing drilled or set up yet, just soliciting advice/ideas.

I’m appreciative of your input.

I just think there comes a point where having the redundancy of the BA is overkill, and wanted to see where that limit was. For some- it’s BA or die. For others, other technologies come into play, hence float sensors etc. I am trending towards a BA on a settling/water change tank is in the overkill category, particularly when it won’t even be capable of pulling a siphon in the first place. But I’m open to being convinced.

I think pics will better explain the situation

Thanks!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

neilp2006 · 04/24/2018, 11:33 AM

Here’s a pic of the plumbing plan.

My only issue is that I don’t have reserve capacity in DT for a block drain scenario where the pump empties the return chamber. DT has overflow 1.5 inches below top of glass, so around 7 gallons. RTN chamber is 15g.

However- a bean animal with three drains is extremely unlikely to block closed in all channels at once, which is kinda the point of a ‘fail-safe’ drain system.

Plan to solve this by adding another baffle to drop the rtn chamber to 5 gallons, but it’ll be tiny. Alternative (and more attractive to me tbh, is 3 “kill pump” float switches at the ‘sump low’ level to kill pump power. And a couple in the overflow box lid to signify ‘overflow high’ to do the same. Apex and break out box.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

04/23/2018, 04:48 PM	#1
neilp2006 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 312	How many drains on in-line frag type tank? I have a 20l (yay petco!) that I’m planning to turn into a mangrove shallow reef display tank. It’ll have 8-10 mangroves, some live rock, sexy shrimp and a couple tube anemones. Will be in the basement fish-room, fed by an outlet on the return manifold, and draining back into the return section of the sump. Question- how many drains are people putting on these in-line ancillary tanks? Was thinking of feeding with one 3/4 inch inlet, and a single 1” drain (inverted elbow for a bit of surface skimming). Should I do another a little higher for an emergency? I’ll have it above the rest of the sump, so if it does overflow, it’ll go into the sump anyway. Would be messy, but contained. Just not sure how likely it’ll be that I’ll have something block the drain. Thanks! Also- same question for a 29 g cryptic. Fed from return manifold, single 1” overflow into the refugium section. Should I plan for double drains? Cheers! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

04/23/2018, 06:10 PM	#2
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	I won't do a tank unless it has a bean animal drain system on it.. Even plumbed in a small 9 gallon long fuge draining into my 40g display tank and even put a bean on it with 3/4" PVC/uniseals instead of bulkheads.. Anything else is inferior and I'm not risking water damage just because I saved a few bucks on plumbing or didn't want to drill another hole.... But if forced at gun point I might contemplate a herbie before taking that bullet like a man. __________________ Who me?

04/24/2018, 04:55 AM	#4
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	Any/all will have a bean... I don't care if its a fountain with a statue of a boy peeing in it.. Its going to get a bean drain... Bird bath... bean drain.. I see no reason to accept inferiority no matter the system.. __________________ Who me?

04/24/2018, 06:36 AM	#6
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	An overflow box really helps with surface skimming but you can certainly do a bean setup without one... I'm not sure what you need float sensors for.. I really don't have a good understanding of what you are trying to accomplish here but still stand by "bean or die" __________________ Who me?

04/24/2018, 07:07 AM	#9
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	Its your tank... I've made my suggestions very clear I hope.. __________________ Who me?

04/24/2018, 05:58 AM	#5
neilp2006 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 312	So here’s another question for you- how would you implement it on, eg, the settling/WC tank? Could you just plumb the 3 lines like a typical BA with PVC elbows etc, and not use an overflow box or weir? The 29g essentially becomes a giant overflow box, with the pipes coming out of 3 holes drilled near the top? Similarly fir the 20l. The aim is for a clean look. Putting an overflow box with weir etc is going to clutter it up. I’m not usually into aesthetics over function- but if part of the reason for having it is to look good, and a big box of pvc elbows sits there all obvious, is there a way to avoid that? Again, do the plumbing by assuming the tank itself is the overflow box and drill 3 holes, setting them with pvc fittings as appropriate? What about float sensors to a controller set to cut the return pump? I’d be ok with seeing some float switches on the trim of the settling tank. Could even do 3 for redundancy. Thanks! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

04/24/2018, 06:53 AM	#7
travis32 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: West Fargo, ND Posts: 2,161	I asked a similar question. I want a 55 gallon rubbermaid brute garbage can plumbed into my system to house rock and maybe some auxillary filtration (scrubber possibly) And Mcgyvr said BA! I am taking it to heart, I know good advice when I see it, I don't want my auxillary garbage can to be the cause of a flood and I like the concept that it's silent. For my purpose the Garbage can is not a display tank, so, I have less to worry about, but, still, the risk of flood and silent running are big considerations for me.

04/24/2018, 07:16 AM	#10
travis32 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: West Fargo, ND Posts: 2,161	Neil, using floats to cut the power to the return, could work, as long as the float switches don't build up calcium and get sticky. I've had this happen... What happens if you're away, traveling for a week or two and your switches cut power to the return? Now it's dead in the water, well literally, until you get home to fix it. With the Bean animal or other emergency drain design, the tank could continue operating and not have one point of failure cause the entire system to shut down until you get home. Last, but not least, cutting the return will cause some back flow. Will all your systems handle the drainage from all the water in the pipes and/or back flow from the return and the tank. . . ? A 20L isn't very big and won't handle a lot of back flow if something is clogged. All it takes is one larger snail to be dumb and get stuck in one of the pipes. Or a loose rock, a clump of macro algae, a fish, etc.

04/24/2018, 11:33 AM	#12
neilp2006 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 312	How many drains on in-line frag type tank? Here’s a pic of the plumbing plan. My only issue is that I don’t have reserve capacity in DT for a block drain scenario where the pump empties the return chamber. DT has overflow 1.5 inches below top of glass, so around 7 gallons. RTN chamber is 15g. However- a bean animal with three drains is extremely unlikely to block closed in all channels at once, which is kinda the point of a ‘fail-safe’ drain system. Plan to solve this by adding another baffle to drop the rtn chamber to 5 gallons, but it’ll be tiny. Alternative (and more attractive to me tbh, is 3 “kill pump” float switches at the ‘sump low’ level to kill pump power. And a couple in the overflow box lid to signify ‘overflow high’ to do the same. Apex and break out box. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Last edited by neilp2006; 04/24/2018 at 05:04 PM.