Having issue with Alkalinity

[02tts]

Originally Posted by lapin

So I get the same (965ml)
You can also try using Randys baked baking soda. Its cheap so wont break the bank. It should not be much different than what you are using. After baking and mixing it with water I added 250ml in my 600 gallon system over 1 day (by hand no doser) and got a raise of .5 ( I have some corals and the tank was new)
Dropped that down to 200ml every 4 days until I got my 1.5 increase.

Just a thought

What’s your daily consumption? And how much calcium to alk do you dose?

[02tts]

Originally Posted by homer1475

Assuming your water volume is correct, to raise your DKH by 1 you would need 965ML of supplement.



Are you using a reef calc at all to figure out your dose, or just blindly dosing and testing?


Reef Calculator

Also, using this calculator:

Calcium raise to 410 (now dropped to 380 due to all the alk I’m dosing) says to use 937.5ml (original formula)

To raise from 6.3 (where am at now with 380 calcium) to 7.3 says to use 223.2ml...not sure where you’re all getting 900+ unless you’re selecting the bicarbonate ESV which is not what I’m using, I’m using the ESV two part original.

So I will dose this over next 12 hour period but it just seems like a lot...I’ve set the calcium to dose 300ml and the all to dose 500ml, or do you suggest I go with the values suggested by the calculator, I just think that’s a a lot for a tank with just live rock...I don’t see the consumption there and I suspect I’ll see some white precipitate if i dose that much.

Thoughts....

[ReeferNtraining]

This is just my experience, but whenever I’ve started a new system, I always seem to be dosing a ton more alk then calc. For months. Then they seem to level off. I use BRS 2 part.

How are you auto dosing into the system? If you are dosing into an area with no surface agitating, you are precipitating some of the alk out. I dose alk into my overflow chamber so that I know it’s getting plenty of flow. Just something to think about. Maybe put a powerhead in the chamber you are dosing to to help stop any precipitate.

[02tts]

Originally Posted by ReeferNtraining

This is just my experience, but whenever I’ve started a new system, I always seem to be dosing a ton more alk then calc. For months. Then they seem to level off. I use BRS 2 part.

How are you auto dosing into the system? If you are dosing into an area with no surface agitating, you are precipitating some of the alk out. I dose alk into my overflow chamber so that I know it’s getting plenty of flow. Just something to think about. Maybe put a powerhead in the chamber you are dosing to to help stop any precipitate.

Not a new tank, tanks has been up for over a year, mostly live rock only as I had a velvet outbreak which killed everything. So it’s not a new system.

That said, I’m dosing using a DOS system so it’s accurate and I dose it on a high volume area which is right on the return so it gets agitated and mixed well. There is plenty of agitation on my two 1.5” returns, trust me, I don’t need a powerhead but I agree that if I wasn’t dosing in a high moving area it may just sink all to the bottom.

[lapin]

Originally Posted by 02tts

What’s your daily consumption? And how much calcium to alk do you dose?

Let me spalin this;
My tank was 2 months old and I was doing 10% water changes per week. My Alk was around 8 and slowly dropping each week, no coral. Red Sea Pro salt. As it hit 7.4, I bought about 14 corals from 2 reefers giving up the hobby. Way to soon but the prices were right. Mostly LPS and 2 large monti caps. Emergency Will Robinson. So I ordered media for my cal reactor. That was a week away. I had to raise it anyway, even with the reactor. So I read Randy's article on Alk. I was able to get it up to 9 and the got the reactor online. I really cant say what my daily use is. Alk is a steady 9; cal is about 420 to 450; mag is around 1500. I had added a full bag of ZEOmag 2.2lbs to my reactor that holds 1/2 box of Reborn media (22 lbs). Next time I will go a little less on the ZEO. Maybe 1.8 lbs to 22 lbs. I would like to be around 1400 on the mag.
Let me add that once you get it up, you can use the doser to keep it there. Best to start with the alk cal mag numbers you want.
This is my opinion and by no means the right way.

[bertoni]

If you want to be very careful, you could try dosing 500 ml or so, and measuring a few minutes afterwards (if you dose into the main display) to confirm the expected change in alkalinity. That assumes that most of the water volume is in the display.

[Vinny Kreyling]

Any problems with a large volume of water requires a large volume of whatever to bring it back. 20 vs 100 = 5x more & another 5x to make 500

[02tts]

Ok I think I’ve got it or getting to it...

Alk seems to take 375ml to keep it from decreasing, in other words it has a daily consumption rate of 375ml.

Calcium seems to be 375–400 to keep it at 400. I’m guessing due to the amount of alk component being put in.

For the most part, they should be a one to one correct?

Does this rate of consumption seem reasonable for a water volume of 500 gallons on a fish only with live rock tank?

[LobsterOfJustice]

For a FOWLR, I’m honestly not sure why you’re testing calcium or alkalinity. I would put the kits in a drawer and move on with your life. Certainly nothing to get hung up on in a fish only tank.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bertoni]

The consumption probably is very close to 1:1. The consumption ratio is 2.8 dKH per 20 ppm of calcium, so given the noise in our testing equipment and general measurements, 400 ml vs 375 ml might take a while to detect. Tanks have varying rates of magnesium consumption, too, and other factors can be involved:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-12/rhf/index.htm

[02tts]

Originally Posted by bertoni

The consumption probably is very close to 1:1. The consumption ratio is 2.8 dKH per 20 ppm of calcium, so given the noise in our testing equipment and general measurements, 400 ml vs 375 ml might take a while to detect. Tanks have varying rates of magnesium consumption, too, and other factors can be involved:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-12/rhf/index.htm

I’ll post a picture of the tank tomorrow when the lights are on, trying to grow the coraline algae which is why I monitor the alk, calcium and mag but I must be doing something wrong, because my rocks are all brown. Phosphate is 0

[02tts]

Here are some pics of the rocks.

PH is at 0.04 - measured using Hannah digital

ALK - 6.8 - measured using Hannah digital

Calcium - 380 - measured using API test kit

Mag - 1380 - measured using Salifert test

[bertoni]

I am not sure from the picture, but if there's very little coralline in the tank after some period of time, the strain you have might not grow well in that tank's lighting.

[02tts]

Originally Posted by bertoni

I am not sure from the picture, but if there's very little coralline in the tank after some period of time, the strain you have might not grow well in that tank's lighting.

How important is lighting...because it could very well be the lighting if lighting is that important to grow coraline. I hear so many conflicting reports on lighting being an influential factor...

[bertoni]

Here's my experience. I had a couple of tanks that had good coralline growth. They were lit with old PC lighting. I changed the lighting on one to metal halide, which was much brighter. The coralline that got direct light all died, and never came back.

My guess is that the strain of coralline that was in my tanks couldn't survive the brighter light, even though many tanks have similar lighting and lots of coralline growth. I think one of the reasons that you see so many different statements is that coralline likely is a lot more variable in its genetic makeup than we think. If you can find a tank with lighting that matches yours and has good coralline growth, a small sample of it might grow well in your system. That's only a guess, though.

[02tts]

Originally Posted by bertoni

Here's my experience. I had a couple of tanks that had good coralline growth. They were lit with old PC lighting. I changed the lighting on one to metal halide, which was much brighter. The coralline that got direct light all died, and never came back.



My guess is that the strain of coralline that was in my tanks couldn't survive the brighter light, even though many tanks have similar lighting and lots of coralline growth. I think one of the reasons that you see so many different statements is that coralline likely is a lot more variable in its genetic makeup than we think. If you can find a tank with lighting that matches yours and has good coralline growth, a small sample of it might grow well in your system. That's only a guess, though.

Thanks

[02tts]

Originally Posted by 02tts

Thanks

Ok so I’m pulling my hairs on this. I am obviously doing something wrong. Any help greatly appreciated, this chemistry stuff is not my forte.

These were taking yesterday:

CA is at 380
ALK is at 6.7
MAG is at 1380

I tried dosing 625ml of CA and ALK yesterday to bring it up and this morning I am seeing precipitation on the bottom of my sump and my values haven’t changed above.

So the question are:

What in the heck am I doing wrong
Why is it precipitating
Why will the values not go up especially after all the alk and ca I’ve thrown at it - which is a gallon of each in a weeks time.

Like I said, I’m 99% sure it’s me - but I can’t forgive out what I’m doing wrong.

[bertoni]

Is the dose going into the sump? I'd dose into the display.

[02tts]

Originally Posted by bertoni

Is the dose going into the sump? I'd dose into the display.

I have the doser drip it right where the return comes in since there is plenty of flow.

[bertoni]

Flow is useful, but volume is important, too. I would dose into the main display. The low-pH version might be useful, too. You make a DIY mix from baking soda to give it a try.

[outssider]

I'll bet that whatever you're using for alkalinity dosing it's got a lot of carbonate. carbonate precipitates much easier than bicarbonate, especially if dosed quickly. Try the baking soda like Bertoni says....

[02tts]

Originally Posted by bertoni

Flow is useful, but volume is important, too. I would dose into the main display. The low-pH version might be useful, too. You make a DIY mix from baking soda to give it a try.

Dosing into the display tank now but it gives it that snow-like effect as it’s being dosed...

I also just baked some baking soda mix last night and will be substituting with that, maybe that will have a lesser impact on ph.

[bertoni]

If the "snow" redissolves, that's normal:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/rhf/index.htm#6

It's magnesium hydroxide. If you are worried, baking soda should cause a smaller effect. It will lower pH a tiny bit when added, but then carbon dioxide will outgas and the pH will rise.

[hkgar]

Originally Posted by homer1475

Assuming your water volume is correct, to raise your DKH by 1 you would need 965ML of supplement.



Are you using a reef calc at all to figure out your dose, or just blindly dosing and testing?


Reef Calculator

I plug in 500 gallons and starting dKH 7.0 and ending 8.0 and got 357 ml/day

[02tts]

Originally Posted by hkgar

I plug in 500 gallons and starting dKH 7.0 and ending 8.0 and got 357 ml/day

I’ve been using ESV. I just got some baking soda and did some baking last night and have a 2 gallon mix ready, will switch it out tomorrow for the baked baking soda mix instead of the ESV mix, which will hopefully not affect my ph as much, ESV mix brings up the ph quite a bit.