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04/07/2016, 10:07 PM | #3501 |
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Yep, tardigrades are masters at it. Son and I are bear hunting but haven't found one yet. As it warms up and moss and such grows again I'm sure we'll find one.
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rebuild and recovery log: No more red house, you'll have to click on my name and visit my homepage! You can check out my parameters at reeftronics dot net website and look for my username. Current Tank Info: 180g mixed reef w/ a beananimal overflow to a dolomite RRUGF. | 20g long G. Smithii Mantis Tank |
04/07/2016, 11:37 PM | #3502 |
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Amazing how this hobby keeps me learning.
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Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape |
04/08/2016, 07:13 AM | #3503 | ||
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04/08/2016, 08:13 AM | #3504 | |
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Don't let pets or children near it Add the Acid to water never the other way around Be Careful Wear protective clothing, gloves, mask, goggles, etc Baking soda can help neutralize it http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...2142685&page=2
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rebuild and recovery log: No more red house, you'll have to click on my name and visit my homepage! You can check out my parameters at reeftronics dot net website and look for my username. Current Tank Info: 180g mixed reef w/ a beananimal overflow to a dolomite RRUGF. | 20g long G. Smithii Mantis Tank |
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04/08/2016, 08:20 AM | #3505 | |
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rebuild and recovery log: No more red house, you'll have to click on my name and visit my homepage! You can check out my parameters at reeftronics dot net website and look for my username. Current Tank Info: 180g mixed reef w/ a beananimal overflow to a dolomite RRUGF. | 20g long G. Smithii Mantis Tank |
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04/08/2016, 11:55 AM | #3506 |
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Dinoflagellates might survive in spore form even if the rocks are dry. A vinegar dip likely will kill them. I might try a 50:50 mix, and let them sit with some circulation for 30 minutes or so. Bleach would be cheaper for killing dinoflagellates, though.
For treating rock for mineral deposits like phosphates, I'd add 1 part muriatic acid to 10 parts water, and let the mix sit for 20-30 minutes, but muriatic acid requires careful handling, as indicated.
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Jonathan Bertoni |
04/08/2016, 05:16 PM | #3507 |
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My first shots...
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04/08/2016, 06:18 PM | #3508 |
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Nice shots. That's a healthy crop of diatoms. Where in your system is it from?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk |
04/08/2016, 06:41 PM | #3509 | |
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I used a brush to scrape the frag discs that had some brown/air bubbles on them. Before that I tried just water column but couldn't see a single particle. The little oval guys - not dyno? I that they were. Going to do a sample tomorrow off the scrubber. |
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04/08/2016, 08:57 PM | #3510 | |
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Quote:
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rebuild and recovery log: No more red house, you'll have to click on my name and visit my homepage! You can check out my parameters at reeftronics dot net website and look for my username. Current Tank Info: 180g mixed reef w/ a beananimal overflow to a dolomite RRUGF. | 20g long G. Smithii Mantis Tank |
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04/09/2016, 01:41 AM | #3511 |
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Looks like diatoms to me.
Go for a few more spots for samples to be sure and don't forget to use scale and movement. --- Does anyone here follow what the nano tank reefers are doing against dinos? What I like to know is what happens when a dinoflagellate infested tank gets stuffed with healthy corals. I have a 400g system and extreme coral prices so it's the worst place to try that one out. |
04/09/2016, 01:50 AM | #3512 |
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We need more thinkers and doers.
The thread has close to 200 000 hits so I presume we have plenty of followers. If you are one of those and your reef tank experience is not what i should be, consider doing something helpful. For an example a nano tank owner could check out the post above. |
04/09/2016, 01:55 AM | #3513 |
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Can anyone verify if they could see the pictures I posted two pages back.
I know of one that apparently could not. |
04/09/2016, 05:40 AM | #3514 |
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04/09/2016, 06:17 AM | #3515 |
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04/09/2016, 06:18 AM | #3516 | |
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Any idea other then the scrubber you guys want me to try and take samples from? Got Hanna ULR Phosphate checker, Phosphates are 9 ppb. |
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04/09/2016, 06:46 AM | #3517 |
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Updates.
My tank looks better than it ever has. And a FTS But I suppose I still "have dinos." Every day I wring out, then FW rinse clean the filter floss strip that I have mounted in front of my biggest powerhead. It's always ostreopsis that comes out, virtually nothing else - pure ostis. So that's my daily dose to do experiments on. No sign of dinos anywhere else in the tank. I do have one corner with a little patch of cyano. I still have a massive amount of caulerpa and chaetomorpha in the tank. Not ready to remove it yet. As for experiments, I repeated the iron B12 trial using a different B12 vitamin with different fillers than the other one. Last time the control had very few dinos, B12 grew more, and Fe grew more than double the amount of others. This time the B12 did worse than the control at growing dinos. It grew cyano and bacteria much more. I suspect much of the effect either way is fillers in the vitamin, going to stop testing B12 unless anyone knows of a pure b vitamin source. The iron treatment again did by far the best at growing dinos. The dino population in the Fe was at least double that in the control or B12 every day for about a week. In the end, Fe had almost 3x dinos (ostreopsis) that the control did. I feel pretty comfortable saying that in my tank with high levels of available N & P & light and tons of macroalgae, the low presence of iron limits the dino growth. (I'm sure it slows the algae growth too). To me it's not far fetched to think that it might happen in other healthy systems where algae growth keeps Fe low and keeps dino population growth below predation levels and out of sight. If anyone knows of a method other than algae competition - faster hopefully - that can take iron down below biologically usable levels that might be an interesting thing to look into. Triton Detox looks intriguing. But remember we're talking about levels way below what Triton test (or any other easily available test) can detect. That seems in Randy's wheelhouse but I haven't seen any posts of his about stripping Fe out of water, except to tell people don't do it. |
04/09/2016, 06:49 AM | #3518 | ||
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Jason, once I let it sit for 30 mins, I add backing soda, then add the rocks to ro/di for 24 hours, then what? I want to make sure the rocks are free of any baking soda, acid, or other chemicals before putting into my tank. And how much of the rock would you say breaks down? I like the design of my rocks a lot!!! |
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04/09/2016, 07:04 AM | #3519 | |
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That's my daily routine also, collect dynos, rinse, repeat. I am also dosing phyto daily, and have a UV running at night. Nitrates at 40, P at 9ppb. |
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04/09/2016, 09:34 AM | #3520 |
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Just add an ATS
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Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape |
04/10/2016, 01:07 AM | #3521 |
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ATS is an algae growing machine, believe me, you don't wan't in your system while you're battling dinos. I made the mistake to put it back on line to early and I managed to bring back the dinos in no time. If you have an algae scrubber and you take it offline during your battle with dinos, don't bring it back in service for at least 2 month after you believe that you're dino free.
BEFORE BRINGING THE ALGAE SCRUBBER BACK IN SERVICE MAKE SURE YOU BLEACH THE SCREEN and start it all over, just like you got a brand new algae scrubber. |
04/10/2016, 05:39 AM | #3522 | |
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If we can't see any signs of dinos I can't see any reason for chasing them. Be aware that they will still be there waiting for the right moment to rule their world. A few years back had a bucket full of sand that I sucked from the top layers and stored for a few months. After I emptied it I noticed the insides of the bucket had gotten very heavily stained with red/orange. I doubt it could have been just dinos so the iron from the GFO is the most likely source. |
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04/10/2016, 03:52 PM | #3523 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
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In any event, pods may not be the only things those fish are eating... Hungry fish is why sponges mostly live under reefs instead of on them, so could be there aren't any large sponges living in your cryptic zone. If so, you can't be getting much bang for your buck. Maybe if there were more filter feeders in your cryptic zone, you'd be seeing fewer in your DT -- sort of like an algae scrubber. But unlike an algae scrubber, a fully functioning cryptic biofilter doesn't allow you to feed more, it allows you to feed less... It's counterintuitive, I know -- the obvious assumption is that more biofiltration capacity means the system can handle more food, and more food means faster growing, more colorful livestock. But the sponge loop means cryptic zones aren't just detritus dumps but in fact also operate as specialized recycling centers, and if you can successfully recycle more nutrients and organic carbon within the system, you don't need to put as much in to keep it going. It's an improvement in the system's overall efficiency, like tinkering with your car so it gets better gas mileage. Pretty sure that's how this tank works, for example. Is your cryptic zone still no-flow? Natural cryptic zones have some flow -- 2-4 cm/s is normal for the small, highly interconnected caves under the reef crest according to one paper -- and that Tank of the Month I linked to puts ~1500 G/hr through what looks like about a 30G cryptic sump (...my math says it's a bit shy of 35G, but it's a rimless tank and not full to the top). Quote:
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Removal processes that involve interacting with dinos, such as this, nvladik's plastic mesh... Quote:
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https://www.terrapub.co.jp/e-library...ishida_023.pdf FWIW, I like my North 7700. -- Quote:
Poking around in Google Scholar turned up a link between the B12 economy and the Roseobacter bacteria clade, which you may recall from page 101. Turns out rosies are big into B12 synthesis. As of 2015, of the >50 rosies that have had their DNA sequenced, every single one had the genes for making B12. This makes sense given how tight rosies are with algae, and since rosies are involved, naturally that means organic sulfur is part of the B12 economy. Since dinos kinda suck at absorbing nutrients from the water column and bacteria are notoriously good at that, your dinos may have pumped up their photosynthesis levels because most of the B12 you dosed was absorbed by bacteria, and the dinos needed the fixed carbon to make organic compounds so they could trade for it -- so rather than vitamin B12 increasing photosynthesis, I suspect increasing photosynthesis helped the dinos acquire B12. Or, being that they're dinos, maybe they were fattening up bacteria before eating them... Though on the other hand, heterotrophic dinos have been observed to snag plastids from their prey and keep them working for short periods of time, sometimes less than an hour, before digesting them; I hypothesized that they may need to photosynthesize for a little while to make organic carbon so they could make DMSP as a sink for sulfide, but maybe they're making organic sulfur to barter for B vitamins. Have you tried Fe + B12 to see if that moves the needle on N or P? Colimitation by B12 and Fe has been observed in "high nitrate low chlorophyll" regions of the ocean. You might also try playing around with different combinations of B12, Fe, and Si to see if you can trigger diatom growth, as HNLC regions are typically low in dissolved Si, too. I was going to suggest checking your dinos' response to B1 and B7, as well, since there's an outside chance that other, less toxic species of dinos are unable to compete because they're B1 and/or B7 auxotrophic -- it would be huge if you found a way to induce a population shift away from ostis in an infested tank by dosing B vitamins -- but it looks like I'm too late. And by any chance, are you using OTC vitamin pills as a source for B12? I suggested this back on page 111... Quote:
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I'm thinking that if there's an another form of iron supplement that your dinos clearly like more than chelated iron, maybe that should be dosed on a healthy reef to see if symbiodinium dinos like it, too. Quote:
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But for a rogue hobbyist going off the edge of the map and deciding to play around with light, rather than blackouts, that chaeto might be an ally in this fight would probably have been overlooked -- taricha FTW! -- Quote:
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04/10/2016, 04:56 PM | #3524 |
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Some new samples from the day guys. All scrubbed off the scrubber with a cue tip, added to test tube. First samples are form a water column, later ones are form particles that settled. And a short video. Appreciate an ID guys if you can see anything..
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04/10/2016, 04:57 PM | #3525 |
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