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Old 02/27/2007, 02:14 PM   #1
Monkey55
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What size sump for a 90 gallon and other Questions

What size sump do I need for a 90 gallon tank? what is ideal? or the best trade off between size and effectiveness?

Do I put my water heaters in my sump? how many water heaters and what watts do I need for a 90 gallon tank and sump?

What size refugium is ideal? Any links to any sites that have ideal ways of stocking your refugium and with what?

How many powerheads do you ideally want on a 90 gallon tank with a return pump running between 1700 and 2000gph?

Do I want a cannister filter on the return line of some type?


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Old 02/27/2007, 02:23 PM   #2
aharrow
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The biggest sump you can take would be ideal. It increases the volume of water you have running in your system. The bigger sump also allows for greater flexibility as you progress in the saltwater hobby. I went from a FOWLR to a full reef and I had to upgrade my sump with my new tank because of the added equipment for a reef setup.

Personally I prefer everything I can get into the sump so you can't see it in the main display. So I put my heaters, skimmer, calcium reactor, phosban reactor, etc all in the sump. Therefore no equipment is seen in the main display. This is just my personal preference but it also gives minimal intrusion on the inhabitants if you have to change out heaters or skimmers, etc. Also alot of the equipment is made for a sump so you quickly run out of space.

On the subject of the flow rate, it seems to be what type of corals you want to keep and their requirements for flow rates. I think most people suggest a 10x turnover rate per gallon.

Hope this helps


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Old 02/27/2007, 02:25 PM   #3
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The bigger the better is my opinion for sump size. How much room do you have? It will add more water to stabilize your display. Yes heaters can go into your sump and is recommended. It depends on your sump size for the heater size. You'll probably have to add two. The refugium is the same idea, bigger is better. Shallow water fuges are however very effective when used for macroalgae. Live rock and live sand is also good to have in your fuge for pods. Here's a link that talks about different ways to use your fuge using seperate compartments. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...hreadid=969713

I'm a little worried about the return pump size. It seems like it might be too big. What type of skimmer do you have and how big is the pump on it? I'm worried about the flow through your sump being too much. How much head loss is there on the pump? How many and what size drains do you have?


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160g Fore Reef w/ sps & some softies. Just started my new tank. Super Reef Octopus XP 3000 External Cone Skimmer. PanWorld 200PS Return Pump w/SQWD & Penductors. Eco-Tech MD40wES & 2 Hydor Evolutions 1400gph. Various Macroalgae & DSB Sump.
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Old 02/27/2007, 02:30 PM   #4
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hehe, thats alot of questions!!!

1) The biggest sump you can fit! The more water volume you have total, the more stable your system is.

2) I use 300 watts for my 95 gallon, you may want like 2 150's. Put these in your sump, mine are in the return section where it gets lots of flow.

3) Figure out what space you have available, design your skimmer and return sections, and whatever room you have left use it for the refugium. The bigger the better.

4) It's not the number of power heads that matters, it's the overall flow pattern and volume the powerheads can push.

5) Don't use a return pump pumping 2000gph!!! About 350 - 550 is all you want traveling through your sump or you will have problems.

6) No canister filters unless you want to use charcole once in a while, your use of it will be limited.


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Old 02/27/2007, 02:36 PM   #5
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The return pump should equal the skimmer pump's flow rate so all the water is processed by the skimmer.


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Old 02/27/2007, 04:01 PM   #6
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Well I was planning on using a 30 Gallon sump and a 10 gallon refugium.
The pump is fully adjustable from 700gph to 2500gph. I was planning on running it around 1700gph. I was thinking of using 2 tunze nanostreams in the main display for oscillating water flow.

I was also thinking of using a Euroreef 135 Skimmer.

And I gues I will Use 2 Jager 150W heaters.

This whole project will be going into a Oceanic 90G Reef ready Bowfront Tank drilled out the back on the Oceanic Stand. I have been told that a 30 G sump will fit down below. And I want to put all my equipment down in the sump If I can.

Is it a big deal If I downgrade my sump down to a 20 or 30 Gallon?


But what I mean by the return nozzles is, What number of nozles is best to distribut flow around the tank on the return pump. I want strong flow every where, So will 2, 4, 0r 6, etc.. do it?

I am going for 20-25times turnover in this tank as I want to keep softies, and zoo's in it.

Thanx


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Old 02/27/2007, 06:01 PM   #7
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Your sump, refugium, and return pump are solely for the purposes of filtration and pods. You cannot run 1700gph through a 20 or 30 gallon sump. You will end up with microbubbles, lack of filtration, etc... Besides that, your oceanic 90 overflow will only be able to handle 600 gph MAX! You must use other means for additional flow whether it be by power heads or closed loop. Your return from the sump just needs one line, you may split the line for 2 returns, but it's purpose is not necessarily for circulation. Use that pump you are looking at for a closed loop if you want, you can find more efficient pumps than than one that can be dialed back for a sump return.

In my 95 gallon, I run 500gph through my sump Y'ed off into two outlets. Then I have 2200gph through 4 outlets on an oceans motions for a closed loop.

Down grade to whatever size fits your budget and needs, just make sure all your equipment will fit in it, especially your skimmer.

You can save alot of money making your own sump if you are the handy type. I built a 47 gallon sump/refugium for about $200.


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Old 02/27/2007, 06:15 PM   #8
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get 2x 250W jager to be safe.
Put the biggest tank that fit under, use 4 glass baffle to make refugium/sump/return area.

Get an Aquaclear 802/70 as return pump, it work really well.

Put your pump on a closed loop. it will make all your flow.

2500Gph = 27x turn over

What is the dimension of the tank?


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Old 02/27/2007, 06:26 PM   #9
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So your not interested in making a closed loop? If this amount of flow can even be used do you know the flow through your sump will be like whitewater. This will create tons of microbubbles. You will also be wasting a ton of electricity for the head loss by using your return pump as the main source of flow. Plus is this amount of flow even possible? Since it is RR you have two holes in the bottom which you'd have to use both as drains, but still the max flow you'd be able to get is around 950 gph. This is not enough to provide strong flow through a many output return manifold system.


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160g Fore Reef w/ sps & some softies. Just started my new tank. Super Reef Octopus XP 3000 External Cone Skimmer. PanWorld 200PS Return Pump w/SQWD & Penductors. Eco-Tech MD40wES & 2 Hydor Evolutions 1400gph. Various Macroalgae & DSB Sump.
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Old 02/27/2007, 08:43 PM   #10
Monkey55
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thank you so much for the info, this is really helpful


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Old 02/27/2007, 08:57 PM   #11
Monkey55
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ok, sorry If I seem a little thick, so the perfect thing to do would be to have a 30 gallon sump and a 10 gallon shallow refugium. Then I will put 600 gph through the sump with two return outlets.
I will also install 2-200w jager heaters in the sump with a euro reef 135.

Now then, for addition flow, would it be better to use a closed loop with a sequence snapper pump that dias from 700-2500gph. with multiple outlets (say 4) on it that have oscillating heads.

Or would it be better to use a tunze system of some type. If so, which one?

I like the first Idea a little better because I could make it a lot more hidden.

Thanx

Please input and feel free to slam any ideas of mine. I want to make the best system I can, since this is is the largest and last systemi will build because it is all I can afford.


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Old 02/27/2007, 09:21 PM   #12
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go with the closed loop.

1 return with a 300-600gph return pump is okay.

Put only one aquarium, put glass baffle to make the refugium.

What max dimension can fit under the 90?


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Current Tank Info: 110G display, 50G refugium, 180 LBS LR/BR, 120lbs sand, Vertex 250 Skimmer, Phosban reactor 300W heater, 333W T5HO, OR3500 return , 4 Tunze 6025 @ 4800GPH, 8w UV, RO/DI
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Old 02/27/2007, 09:29 PM   #13
jer77
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Looks like your getting it. I'd suggest something around 700 gph without head pressure for your return pump. For the CL the oscillating heads will cost some money, but so will Tunze's for that matter. I'd go with the CL though.


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160g Fore Reef w/ sps & some softies. Just started my new tank. Super Reef Octopus XP 3000 External Cone Skimmer. PanWorld 200PS Return Pump w/SQWD & Penductors. Eco-Tech MD40wES & 2 Hydor Evolutions 1400gph. Various Macroalgae & DSB Sump.
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Old 02/27/2007, 10:22 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Monkey55
Now then, for addition flow, would it be better to use a closed loop with a sequence snapper pump that dias from 700-2500gph. with multiple outlets (say 4) on it that have oscillating heads.
If you are looking to avoid the look of power heads, you may want to avoid the use of oscillating heads and use an oceans motions super squirt or 4-way to provide your alternating currents. Take a look at www.oceansmotions.com. Glad to see you are on your way to a great tank and trying to do it right the first time. I wish that I got more advice when I did my tank. I have had to upgrade alot!! Good luck.


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Old 02/27/2007, 11:03 PM   #15
Monkey55
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Okay, I just talked to the guy who was supposed to build this for me at the LFS. Now he has been building these for 20 years and recently done like 20 90 gallons in the last 4 years. He says he has it perfected.

He plans on putting in the sequence snapper because it is quiet and dialing it to 1500gph and a flow through 30G sump. now he says that this isn't giong to create micro bubble or white water at all because they are going to drill ou the back of the sump with and use 1.5" piping for the sump with all the proper baffling. he says you get a lot of head loss so a sequence snapper (although more expensive) is a good choice and also runs coller with less noice.
the return will split off into 4 locline outputs. He then plans to use a closed loop system powered by a vortech pump with controller that runs at 3600gph(with a battery back up). Combined I get 55 times flow. SWEET. I can put the heaters in the sump and in the pump will be a flow through 135 euro reef skimmer. He will also plumb off a 10G shallow refugium that will has it's own T5 bulb or compact PC.


HOW DOES THIS PLAN SOUND? he says this is one of his favorite ways to go and he has a 72G in his store right now that is running with absolutely no microbubbles that has a very similiar set up. He even said that he would drive the 4 hours to my house and help me set up the tank and make sure I am hapy with it. (he is also setting up 4 other tanks in town that weekend, so it is worth the drive for him) all he wants is lunch for the set up.


What is your input on this plan?

On another note, this same LFS guy is custom builing me a Black Oak canopy with custom doors, fans, two tone moonlights, and 2- 250 w MH lights built in with 2-t5 actinicbulbs.


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Old 02/28/2007, 08:25 AM   #16
Monkey55
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so, what is the deal, is this a good plan?


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Old 02/28/2007, 08:32 AM   #17
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No, it doesn't. Everyone here has advised you against running any more than 600gph through your sump. If you choose not to listen, then by all means do what you feel, you will learn yourself then. I don't understand why you are here asking for advice when you don't want to take it when everyone is saying the same thing. My LFS is the last person I go to for information. I come on here, get the different opinions, draw my conclusion from what I have learned, and TELL my LFS what I want!! Thats how it should be.


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Old 02/28/2007, 11:22 AM   #18
Monkey55
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Ok settle down pal. I have taken your advice and I do agree. I was just asking if the tank was drilled out larger, can you increase flow? Because I wasn't going to use the small stock holes on the oceanic tank. I am not ignoring advice, I am asking if the parameters change, if this means the equipment changes.


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Old 02/28/2007, 11:51 AM   #19
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If you increase the holes and increase the flow through the sump, even if you mange to have no microbubbles, I think your issue will then become giving your skimmer the opportunity to skim.


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