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Old 05/30/2007, 09:00 AM   #1
bodeba
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Question How to raise PH without raising alkalinity ?

How to raise PH without raising alkalinity ??

Please help me!!! My PH is always getting lower... and I cant add more buffer into the tank beacause my alkalinity is very very very high...

What to do ???


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Old 05/30/2007, 09:33 AM   #2
Avi
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Which products have you been using so far?


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I'd keep the whole ocean if my den were big enough

Current Tank Info: 120 gallon reef with 210 lbs. of live rock, Aqua-C EV180 Skimmer, Aquactinic double 250W MH with blue plus t5 support; 58 gallon freshwater planted tank using CO2 and T5s; 30-gallon cube with a few fancy goldfish; and a 110 gallon FOWLR
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Old 05/30/2007, 09:41 AM   #3
kipher
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He is an article by RHF that I suggest you read through. Its been quite some time since I've read it, but I'm sure your answer is in there.
Low pH: Causes and Cures


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For the Best of both Worlds!!!!

Current Tank Info: 75G reef, 95 lbs LR, 29g tank as my DIY fuge/sump w/ Quiteone Model 3000 (780gph) return pump, ASM G-2 Skimmer, 1 - 170gph Penguin 660 PH , Seio 2600, 2500gph MJ Mod, Typhoon III RO/DI, 2x250W MH (10K XM's) & 2-36" 96W VHO Actinic
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Old 05/30/2007, 09:52 AM   #4
bodeba
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Currently using Kalkwasser (daily), Tropic Marin Pro coral organic (daily) , Tropic Marin Pro coral mineral (biweekly), Tropic Marin Iodine (half the recomended daily dose). A few weeks ago I quit using Bio Calcium , and started using Two Litle Fishes C-Balance.

Any suggestions??


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Old 05/30/2007, 09:54 AM   #5
bodeba
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I've already read this article,,,,,,

It suggests my problem is with CO2...

But I'm not pretty sure of that,,,,


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Old 05/30/2007, 09:57 AM   #6
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Fresh air - open a window

Or, if you Alk and Ca are on the high side, don't sweat it. What exactly are you considering to be "low". Post some of your test results for pH and Alk and see what others suggest.


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Current Tank Info: formerly 250g room divider
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Old 05/30/2007, 10:22 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by bodeba
I've already read this article,,,,,,

It suggests my problem is with CO2...

But I'm not pretty sure of that,,,,
Yeah, Thats what I kinda gatter after skimming through the article again. I don't know what else to say. Try the CO2 test by putting a sample of tank water outside and testing it later for PH. If you can rule out the CO2 possibility that would help narrow down the problem.


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Brian
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For the Best of both Worlds!!!!

Current Tank Info: 75G reef, 95 lbs LR, 29g tank as my DIY fuge/sump w/ Quiteone Model 3000 (780gph) return pump, ASM G-2 Skimmer, 1 - 170gph Penguin 660 PH , Seio 2600, 2500gph MJ Mod, Typhoon III RO/DI, 2x250W MH (10K XM's) & 2-36" 96W VHO Actinic
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Old 05/30/2007, 10:22 AM   #8
bodeba
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Here they are :

PH 7,6
Alk > 3,5 mili equi. per liter


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Old 05/30/2007, 10:24 AM   #9
bodeba
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I leave in a apartment... Lots of wind passing trought the room...


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Old 05/30/2007, 10:51 AM   #10
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What are you testing pH with? Seems pretty absurd to have pH that low with that alkalinity level. ESPECIALLY if you're dosing kalkwasser. I would independently validate the pH test before you make any further changes to "fix" it. You might be on a wild goose chase.


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Current Tank Info: formerly 250g room divider

Last edited by jeffbrig; 05/30/2007 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 05/30/2007, 10:54 AM   #11
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By the way....what is the pH of the water that you use for your water changes? That may have some relevance here.

The wind isn't what would address a CO2 problem, which would be caused by something in the tank that's contributing to the low pH like your water change water-source...or...something that's generating CO2 like decaying matter or a dead spot in your substrate. In order for you to address such a problem...which you should test for as kipher suggests so you know what's what...you'd need to do certain things inside the tank like increase the water flow and make sure your water's surface is being agitated so CO2 would escape at a faster rate than it might be now...again, that's all assuming for the moment that CO2's the problem.

The first thing you need to do is attempt to isolate the cause of the low pH...then once you do, there'll be answers here as to how to address the issue.


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I'd keep the whole ocean if my den were big enough

Current Tank Info: 120 gallon reef with 210 lbs. of live rock, Aqua-C EV180 Skimmer, Aquactinic double 250W MH with blue plus t5 support; 58 gallon freshwater planted tank using CO2 and T5s; 30-gallon cube with a few fancy goldfish; and a 110 gallon FOWLR
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Old 05/30/2007, 11:07 AM   #12
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Do you have a friend or LFS that would verify the pH? Also are you seeing problems in your tank, or just noticing that the tests are reading low?
I had a pH meter that would loose calibration after a few days, I don't know if it was old or crappy, but I thought that mine was low, a quick verification proved me wrong.


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Old 05/30/2007, 02:01 PM   #13
bodeba
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I have already tested my PH meter,,, it is a diggital one (Hanna Instruments) and it is properly calibrated..

I mencioned the wind in the room to explain that there is lots of air circulation in the room.

My tank seens to be pretty fine... Everything is looking great...


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Old 05/30/2007, 02:04 PM   #14
bodeba
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Is there a problem if I skip a day and do not dose kalkwasser into the tank ?

Sometimes I just forget it....


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Old 05/30/2007, 02:36 PM   #15
fingersdlp
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Regarding Co2 issues...

I have a standard 180 gallon tank 6 x 2 x 2 I believe (All Glass). The ph is always fine on it. I also have a 156 gallon 6' x 18" x 30" with a glass center brace taking 1/3 of the top surface area. The ph is a problem and I try to keep the Alk around 4 to help it stay up. I have two pinpoint ph meters and use salifert for the alk test.

I believe the tall tank configuration has poor oxygen/CO2 issues. I have tried to increase surface agitation but it has not helped much.

I think some tank configurations can be a problem to keep the ph in the good range. I see a ph of 7.7 or 7.8 all the time in the morning even with my Alk > 3.5 so I know it is a CO2 problem. I am even considering adding a bubble wand inside the overflow to see if it will help but I am worried the salt creep will be a problem.

If you are using glass covers you may try replacing them with egg crate. I would not have thought that the tank shape would really matter that much but I have no other way to explain the difference in PH between my tanks since they have similar habitat, fish and corals and even use mostly the same equipement. The biggest difference is the amount of surface area exposed to air.

B.


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Old 05/31/2007, 07:52 AM   #16
bodeba
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Interesting!!

My tank is 1,20 x 0,40 x 0,70 cm

Quite tall isn't it?

Lots of bio load.. could that be the reason of the low Ph, even with alk >3,5 ???


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Old 06/01/2007, 06:39 AM   #17
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Any product/way that can raise PH without raising ALK ???


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Old 06/01/2007, 06:52 AM   #18
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accidentally double posted so see the next post


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I'd keep the whole ocean if my den were big enough

Current Tank Info: 120 gallon reef with 210 lbs. of live rock, Aqua-C EV180 Skimmer, Aquactinic double 250W MH with blue plus t5 support; 58 gallon freshwater planted tank using CO2 and T5s; 30-gallon cube with a few fancy goldfish; and a 110 gallon FOWLR

Last edited by Avi; 06/01/2007 at 07:02 AM.
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Old 06/01/2007, 06:53 AM   #19
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bodeba, I've been using three products to maintain my water chemistry and I'm very happy with them. I use Seachem Reef Buffer (to get the water to 8.3 on a one occasion basis according to instructions.) So, that's what you're looking for, I'd think. Once the water's at the 8.3 that you want, I find subsequent addition of that not to be necessary.

It may raise your carbonate hardness a little so you have to make sure you test using a reliable test kit. I understand that you don't want to raise alkalinity but this won't be a problem for you.

Once the pH was at 8.3, I used and continue to regularly use Seachem Reef Builder in conjunction with Kent Turbo Calcium to maintain the balance between calcium and alkalinity. I refer to these "gadgets" regularly for the dosage necessary to maintain the chemistry where I want it to be:

http://www.reefnerds.com/ChemPlot/ChemPlot.html

http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chemcalc.html


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I'd keep the whole ocean if my den were big enough

Current Tank Info: 120 gallon reef with 210 lbs. of live rock, Aqua-C EV180 Skimmer, Aquactinic double 250W MH with blue plus t5 support; 58 gallon freshwater planted tank using CO2 and T5s; 30-gallon cube with a few fancy goldfish; and a 110 gallon FOWLR
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Old 06/01/2007, 07:14 AM   #20
bodeba
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So, there will be no problem adding Seachem buffer even with ALk > 3,8 ????


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Old 06/01/2007, 08:53 AM   #21
bodeba
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???????? Please help ???????


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Old 06/01/2007, 09:04 AM   #22
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we're tryin to help...If your alkalinity is at 3.8meq/L and your calcium is at, say, 420ppm, your water will be fine and in balance. Don't be afraid to use those links that I posted for you...they are a big help. The first of the two links....

http://www.reefnerds.com/ChemPlot/ChemPlot.html

makes it very easy to see what calcium levels will be compatable with an alkalinity of 3.8. You just have to plug in the numbers.

...and to answer your question directly...it'll be fine to add the Seachem Reef Buffer but be sure to follow the instructions on the container that it comes in along with testing for pH and alkalinity while you do apply it.


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I'd keep the whole ocean if my den were big enough

Current Tank Info: 120 gallon reef with 210 lbs. of live rock, Aqua-C EV180 Skimmer, Aquactinic double 250W MH with blue plus t5 support; 58 gallon freshwater planted tank using CO2 and T5s; 30-gallon cube with a few fancy goldfish; and a 110 gallon FOWLR
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Old 06/01/2007, 09:27 AM   #23
bodeba
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What would be an ALK overdose??


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Old 06/01/2007, 09:35 AM   #24
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bodeba...stay with me on this...go to the webpage that I gave you. There, you'd be able to plug in any alkalinity you want along with your calcium level or any other calcium level. The calculator will display for you whether or not the two readings (alkalinity and calcium) together are a balanced and safe combination. Generally speaking, an alkalinity range of 2.5 meq/L to 4 meq/L is recommended. But, for the optimum level with that range, it should be balanced with your calcium level...That's where the webpage that I gave you is so useful...it will make arriving at that balance easier.


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I'd keep the whole ocean if my den were big enough

Current Tank Info: 120 gallon reef with 210 lbs. of live rock, Aqua-C EV180 Skimmer, Aquactinic double 250W MH with blue plus t5 support; 58 gallon freshwater planted tank using CO2 and T5s; 30-gallon cube with a few fancy goldfish; and a 110 gallon FOWLR
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Old 06/01/2007, 09:41 AM   #25
bodeba
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I've seen the web sites... Very useful....
Thanks Avi fot the attention,,, and sory about my english,,, I'm from brazil...

But i'm having trouble puting my parameters on the TARGET area...

And I'm afraid adding to much buffer would cause a ALK overdose.

My Calcium/ALk is balanced... but my PH still low....


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