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Old 06/13/2007, 11:44 AM   #1
MarkS
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Lightbulb 541 gallon L-shaped plywood tank plans with dual RCSD...

I've been out of the hobby for more than a year and have been wanting to get back in. I am giving this tank design some serious thought. I've built two plywood tanks in the past. I like this design better than the usual box.



The dimensions are 31" tall x 24" deep. The two front panels are 6' long and the back panels are 8' long. The two toilet tank looking things on the ends are Reverse Carlson Surge Devices. They would be custom made out of 1/2" clear acrylic and each one holds 16 gallons. I love this surge device design. You get a monstrously powerful surge with nothing more than a regular small aquarium air pump. 100% plankton friendly.

The RCSD:


I'm going to start buying the wood over the next few weeks and I'll post construction pics as I go along. I'll need someone with a CNC router or mill to cut the acrylic for the surge devices.

I have the overflow already. Its a huge overflow that I had Zephrant make me on his CNC router. It measures 32" x 24" x 10". This is it as it currently looks:

What I'm going to do is cut it down the middle and glue it back together with a 90° bend or maybe heat it up and bend it. Either way it will end up looking like the overflow in the rendering.

Any comments?


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Old 06/13/2007, 11:58 AM   #2
sac-bobme
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Good idea, I was going to build one of these in my shop, but they sold the building and I had to move.
You prb want to add a brace on the side also, you are a tad light on the bracing, but your plans look great, commng from some one who also has built a lot of plywood tanks.


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Old 06/13/2007, 12:01 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by sac-bobme
Good idea, I was going to build one of these in my shop, but they sold the building and I had to move.
You prb want to add a brace on the side also, you are a tad light on the bracing, but your plans look great, commng from some one who also has built a lot of plywood tanks.
Trust me. The bracing I have in the rendering will be more than sufficient. I'm looking at just slightly over 1 PSI of pressure. The 2x2's will be able to handle it.


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Old 06/13/2007, 12:29 PM   #4
tgunn
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If you had the room I'd do it 24" tall and 31" depth (front to back). My 140g is 28" front to back. Even the extra 4" over a standard 24" tank gives me that much more room to make a really 3 dimensional aquascape.

But I LOVE the idea; this is going to be an awesome build to follow!


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Old 06/13/2007, 01:04 PM   #5
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How will the seam in the front center of the tank (between the two panels of glass) be secured? Will there be screws used from the inside the tank.


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Old 06/13/2007, 01:45 PM   #6
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I like it!! I'll definitely be tagging along to see this.


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Old 06/13/2007, 02:43 PM   #7
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tagging along here too...


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Old 06/13/2007, 03:00 PM   #8
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I would do an outside overflow so you dont lose real estate in the tank. Look in the large tank forum there is a guy with a similar tank


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Old 06/13/2007, 04:18 PM   #9
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Ok then i guess you know what your doing ....

can some one tell me what the Reverse Carlson Surge Devices do?


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Old 06/13/2007, 04:43 PM   #10
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Long time no see Mark.
How are your RCSDs vents plumbed? Also, remember that you will get a much bigger surge when using large vent plumbing.
Also, what are your plans for the noise and spray. A deal killer for lots of people, as they are loud!
Should be a neat tank! I would say that the stand deflection needs to be greatly minimized, as there will be a lot of torque on the inside corners of the "L" should there be any settling, etc. May want to use a steel brace between the 2.
Welcome back,
Chris


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Old 06/13/2007, 07:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by sac-bobme
Ok then i guess you know what your doing ....
I don't believe that I know everything. Just go into a little more detail. Maybe you're correct...

Quote:
Originally posted by sac-bobme
can some one tell me what the Reverse Carlson Surge Devices do?
An air pump is plumbed to the top of the surge tank (not shown in the rendering). The air from the pump increases the pressure in the surge tank, displacing the water through the large opening. At the same time, it is also pushing water out of the small tube, which is plumbing inside the main tank at the waterline. When all of the water is pushed out of the small piping (called a vent), the air escapes causing a dramatic drop is pressure in the surge tank. Water then rushes back into the surge tank (the surge) under great pressure, filling the vent pipe and the process starts over. So little air pressure is needed to get this to work that a small air pump can be used. Heck, you could blow into the air line and cause it to surge. Larger air pumps mean faster surges. Its called reverse Carlson because the surge enters the surge tank, rather than leaving it as in a regular Carlson surge device. This system also does not have the problems with siphons as the regular version does.

When I first heard about this, it was from an article from the creators of the RCSD. They built a rather large one on a several thousand gallon tank. It quite literally blew the rock work apart.

Quote:
Originally posted by mhossom
How will the seam in the front center of the tank (between the two panels of glass) be secured? Will there be screws used from the inside the tank.
Yes. They'll be sealed and epoxied over. No other way to do it.

Quote:
Originally posted by nyvp
I would do an outside overflow so you dont lose real estate in the tank. Look in the large tank forum there is a guy with a similar tank
Do you have a link? I like that idea.

Quote:
Originally posted by H20ENG
Long time no see Mark.
How are your RCSDs vents plumbed? Also, remember that you will get a much bigger surge when using large vent plumbing.
Also, what are your plans for the noise and spray. A deal killer for lots of people, as they are loud!
Should be a neat tank! I would say that the stand deflection needs to be greatly minimized, as there will be a lot of torque on the inside corners of the "L" should there be any settling, etc. May want to use a steel brace between the 2.
Welcome back,
Chris
The vents will be plumbed through the side of the main tank and up to the water's surface. I'll use a creative mix of ells and tees at the top of the vent to direct the spray into the water. I'll have to live with the noise. I am showing 1/2" vent plumbing in the rendering, but it is merely a rendering. What would you suggest? 3/4"? 1"? 1 1/2"? I think 1" would be a good figure, but you have much more experience here.

Steel brace between the two what? The stand will be on a concrete slab, so settling is not too much of a concern. I may end up having a steel stand made. I'm still working on that.



Last edited by MarkS; 06/13/2007 at 07:49 PM.
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Old 06/13/2007, 08:00 PM   #12
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almost the same idea

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...readid=1057604


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Old 06/13/2007, 08:04 PM   #13
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I like it! A lot!


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Old 06/13/2007, 08:43 PM   #14
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Exciting surge device. Do you think one on each end is really necessary? The surge will travel around the corner. Just wondering if that will be to much.


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Old 06/13/2007, 08:51 PM   #15
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Mark,
I built a nano tank with a built in RCSD, and I used a 3/4" vent. I'll use 1" next time.

I remember the original SeaScope article talking about the need for a huge vent, and how he kept increasing the size, all the way to 4".

You need to get the pressure out of the box ASAP. This way the water can rush in as fast as possible. But, if you only have a small inlet, you wont move the water very fast, and consequently, wont get a great surge. So for your setup I would either slot the tank or put at least 3" plumbing and a minimum 2" vent.

Another way to get a stronger surge is to mount the RCSD lower in the tank. This way there is more head pressure on the water trying to get into the box. You will need a stronger air pump for this though.

You could also run the vent plumbing out the top of the box and over to the tank. This would eliminate a nother plumbing line in the display. Just make a U inside the RCSD box.

HTH


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Old 06/14/2007, 12:47 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by H20ENG
Mark,
I built a nano tank with a built in RCSD, and I used a 3/4" vent. I'll use 1" next time.

I remember the original SeaScope article talking about the need for a huge vent, and how he kept increasing the size, all the way to 4".

You need to get the pressure out of the box ASAP. This way the water can rush in as fast as possible. But, if you only have a small inlet, you wont move the water very fast, and consequently, wont get a great surge. So for your setup I would either slot the tank or put at least 3" plumbing and a minimum 2" vent.

Another way to get a stronger surge is to mount the RCSD lower in the tank. This way there is more head pressure on the water trying to get into the box. You will need a stronger air pump for this though.

You could also run the vent plumbing out the top of the box and over to the tank. This would eliminate a nother plumbing line in the display. Just make a U inside the RCSD box.

HTH
All good ideas. I might as well go to a 4" outlet with a 2" vent. I'd love to slot the tank but how would I seal the surge tank to the main tank? Bulkheads are easy.


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Old 06/14/2007, 01:14 AM   #17
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*Slaps forehead*

I'm not thinking outside the box... Not like me...

This is a wooden aquarium. Why not make the RCSD's out of wood?



I could just mount them directly to the side of the aquarium and epoxy. This way I could easily slot the tank. The above rendering shows a 24" wide x 18" tall x 15" deep (all OD) surge tank with a 2" vent. The slot would be 22.5" wide x 4" tall. I still want the acrylic so I can see inside. It is much easier to mount a single panel of acrylic than an entire box.


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Old 06/14/2007, 01:49 AM   #18
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ok i get the idea of them, is there a link where i can read more about them or how to build them?


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Old 06/14/2007, 01:51 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by sac-bobme
ok i get the idea of them, is there a link where i can read more about them or how to build them?
Here you go... The original article on them: http://www.petsforum.com/cis-fishnet...e/00SS1705.htm


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Old 06/18/2007, 12:29 PM   #20
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I have been actually designing and figuring out a near exact tank idea for quite a while. i dont plan on actually building it for perhaps 10 - 15 years... but keep up the good work and the pix too!!!


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Old 06/18/2007, 04:45 PM   #21
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Very interesting surge device there....I would love to see this in action....


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Old 06/18/2007, 04:53 PM   #22
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ditto me too, I've heard of a reverse carlson, and I have a round about idea of how it works however I have no clue to how it's implimented.


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Old 06/18/2007, 06:10 PM   #23
H20ENG
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Think of holding a 5g bucket upside down, full of air under water. Now vent the air all at once through a 2" pipe- the water rushes in causing the water in the tank to surge toward the bucket


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Old 06/18/2007, 06:27 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by H20ENG
Think of holding a 5g bucket upside down, full of air under water. Now vent the air all at once through a 2" pipe- the water rushes in causing the water in the tank to surge toward the bucket
Yeah and the whole of the water column moves, not just the volume of the surge tank. It creates a really wild surge that is only equaled in nature. The only downside is the cannon blast that comes with the surge. In my case, replace the 5 gallon bucket with a 28 gallon aquarium. Or two...

Chris, I'm pondering several different silencer designs. I know the biggest issue is getting the air to expand prior to exiting the vent. I'm thinking a large PVC gun-style silencer would work. The only issue I see is that there isn't a bullet in front of the compressed gas to force it into the baffle chamber. Another one I thought of was a rectangular box with baffles angled 45° and overlapped. Do you have any ideas here?


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Old 06/18/2007, 08:52 PM   #25
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Well in your case since there isn't a bullet so you don't need to have a channel without baffeling for a bullet to pass through. Why not just fill the PVC pipe with your baffeling material? You could expand the vent pipe into say 6" PVC and just fill it with something like cotton. But then what are you going to do to keep the baffeling from getting wet? Is there a baffeling material that won't decay with time after it gets wet?


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