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Old 06/26/2007, 11:10 AM   #1
MikePowell
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Unhappy why does my water shock me?

i have a t4 pump on my tank for a closed loop system. recently when i touch my water i get a mild shock. i know it is from this pump b/c wheni un plugg it the shocking stops. i took the pump off and check the seals and they seem to be fine. is this a common problem with this pump? is there a way to fix this problem?


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Old 06/26/2007, 11:17 AM   #2
Beaner3
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You can unplug the pump every time you stick your hands in the water, Thats what I would do if I kept getting shocked.


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Old 06/26/2007, 11:25 AM   #3
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your pump is bad. its leaking voltage into the water. thats really bad for your corals and fish. you'll have to buy a new pump. sorry for the bad news


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Old 06/26/2007, 11:26 AM   #4
MikePowell
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how would it leak voltage? just a bad internal seal or what? it was running fine for a few days but why all of a sudden?


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Old 06/26/2007, 11:46 AM   #5
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You really need to get your system on a GFCI and get a grounding probe in your tank. One of these days someone is not going to be able to post a question asking why they get shocked!


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Old 06/26/2007, 11:49 AM   #6
MikePowell
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thanks for the help i will get some provisions from the hardware store and see if it helps.

thank you everyone for your time


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Old 06/26/2007, 01:47 PM   #7
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So those gound probes actually work?


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Old 06/26/2007, 02:03 PM   #8
pufferman90
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from my understanding every house is required to have a ground probe reaching into the ground


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Old 06/26/2007, 02:05 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by pufferman90
from my understanding every house is required to have a ground probe reaching into the ground
It depends how old your house is.


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Old 06/26/2007, 02:14 PM   #10
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Yep, get a grounding probe.


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Old 06/26/2007, 06:23 PM   #11
Mikigo
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Once my heater glass broke. Everytime the controller fire the heater there is electric leak. Scariest thing to experience when getting shocked!


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Old 06/26/2007, 07:41 PM   #12
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yeah my house is fairly old, it wasbuilt in the late 50's early 60's so the wiring is alittle old. most of the outlet do not have a grounding wire so none of my outlets are grounded. i might just run a cable from a grounded outlet to my tank and use a grounding probe.


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Old 06/26/2007, 08:11 PM   #13
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I'm not an electrician, but as it was explained to me:

"Our electrical system uses the earth as a ground. It is illegal in every municipality in the US to use the ground as your neutral. You could place a hot wire to one side of something and a ground to the other and you would get a circuit.

What that means is that if you use a grounding probe you're adding a neutral to your water, add a "hot" such as leaking voltage and no more posts for you, ever. Grounding probes should NEVER be used without a GFCI. To do so is a serious health hazard."

Again I'm not an electrician but the above is paraphrased from a conversation I had with an electrician.


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Old 06/26/2007, 08:37 PM   #14
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Bottom line in THIS case...adding a ground probe, GFCI, whatever is NOT going to fix the problem. The pump is bad, get rid of it before you electrocute yourself!

jds


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Old 06/26/2007, 08:52 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Freds
I'm not an electrician, but as it was explained to me:

"Our electrical system uses the earth as a ground. It is illegal in every municipality in the US to use the ground as your neutral. You could place a hot wire to one side of something and a ground to the other and you would get a circuit.

What that means is that if you use a grounding probe you're adding a neutral to your water, add a "hot" such as leaking voltage and no more posts for you, ever. Grounding probes should NEVER be used without a GFCI. To do so is a serious health hazard."

Again I'm not an electrician but the above is paraphrased from a conversation I had with an electrician.
I'm not certain how to take the post I stated that he needed a probe and a GFCI. The electical code he spoke of is not a "law" and the electrical police are not going to come knocking We are talking about 1. keeping your fish safe from stray current which is unhealthy and can lead to several ailments and 2. Your safety working around a tank!

I'm fairly certain you were just passing on information and not meant to be confrontational

Bottom line is to keep yourself safe first and then provide a quality environment for the critters...

And bureau13 was right that it's not going to fix the problem, but it might save your life down the road when something really fails! Next time it might not me a little voltage leak from a pump


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Old 06/26/2007, 08:59 PM   #16
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Wow... where to start.

This thread is full of sketchy information.

1) The pump is likely faulty. It SHOULD NOT be used.
2) A GFCI should be used in conjunction with a ground probe. This is to protect YOU and the tank. If there is a current leak, the GFCI will trip.
3) GFCIs SHOULD always be used when there is not a grounded outlet available.

Fred... the earth is not the electric companies ground... that is what the neutral is. Not worth getting into detail though. We add the earth ground for safety, but even that is somewhat futile Thus the GFCI is very important in situations like described in this thread.


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Old 06/26/2007, 09:02 PM   #17
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Just get a good pair of rubber gloves or just listen to the other guys


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Old 06/26/2007, 09:17 PM   #18
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Get yourself a GFCI they are about $16 at Lowes/HD and can save your life. The pump is definietly bad and needs replacement.


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Old 06/26/2007, 09:47 PM   #19
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While I agree with the assessments above about the pump, there CAN be another reason for the shocking. All (many/most??)mag pumps will put out small amounts of stray voltage - generally not something you can feel. However, if you have enough of them, they can be felt. On my 215 I have 2x1200gph closed loop pumps, an 1800 gph return pump, a 1200gph skimmer pump, a smallish pump on my Ca reactor, and 2 Seio 2600s. This was enough to add around 12v to my system - and enough to get a tingle. I thought I had a short somewhere, and with a multimeter, managed to find out that ALL of these pumps put out a volt or 2! A grounding probe - along with GFCIs - "fixed" the problem. I say "fixed", because the voltage is still there!


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Old 06/26/2007, 11:14 PM   #20
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grounding probe!!!!


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Old 06/27/2007, 06:56 AM   #21
MikePowell
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dang there is alot of confusing stuff here. i amjust going to get anew pump and forget a grounding probe.


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Old 06/27/2007, 08:07 AM   #22
bureau13
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Now this I don't understand. If Mag pumps do this, how can you ever have them in a system with a grounding probe and a GFCI? It should trip immediately! Anyone know what the threshold for a typical GFCI is? If its not going to trip pretty easily, its not going to be much of a safety device either, I wouldn't think.

jds

Quote:
Originally posted by bstreep
While I agree with the assessments above about the pump, there CAN be another reason for the shocking. All (many/most??)mag pumps will put out small amounts of stray voltage - generally not something you can feel. However, if you have enough of them, they can be felt. On my 215 I have 2x1200gph closed loop pumps, an 1800 gph return pump, a 1200gph skimmer pump, a smallish pump on my Ca reactor, and 2 Seio 2600s. This was enough to add around 12v to my system - and enough to get a tingle. I thought I had a short somewhere, and with a multimeter, managed to find out that ALL of these pumps put out a volt or 2! A grounding probe - along with GFCIs - "fixed" the problem. I say "fixed", because the voltage is still there!



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Old 06/27/2007, 10:28 AM   #23
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6-10mA typical


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Old 06/27/2007, 10:30 AM   #24
BeanAnimal
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Mike,

Nothing confusing.

Equipment should not leak voltage/current. Adding a ground probe helps to move that current away from the tank. Adding the GFCI keep the current from flowing and instead trip when a leak is detected.

Rule of thumb:

DON'T RUN A GROUND PROBE WITHOUT A GFCI.

YOU MAY RUN A GFCI WITHOUT A GROUND PROBE. Doing so will offer a fair amount of protection but does not cover all fault scenarios.

Bean


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Old 06/28/2007, 12:54 AM   #25
skimmy
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i think you need to stick your head in the water just to make sure your really getting shocked,....
you gotta know for sure


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