pale mouths and sluggish fish?

flushedaway · 07/03/2007, 10:49 PM

I went to feed the fish in our 6 gallon nano tonight and noticed that they were:
1) not interested in food
2) barely moving while laying on the bottom of the tank
3) their mouths were pale and almost white

Any idea what this could be? Here is some background:

The two fish are pecula clowns, and the peperment shrimp looked almost white/clear - no more red pigmentation.

We have been addressing a hair algae problem lately and have not been leaving the light on.

We are also addressing a bristle worm infestation and have been fairly conservative in the ammount of food we are putting into the tank. We are taking great care to put a little at a time allowing the clowns to eat it all and then put in a little more etc. In general, the clowns eat as if they have not had a meal in days, so the current behavior is out of the norm.

I checked our ph and it was low - around 7.8, and the alkalinity was within the tolerence range but on the high side of that window. I added in buffer to try to help with the ph, and I added iodine for the shrimp. I am leaving the light on, in the event they are missing something from that.

I do not have a nitrate test kit, but there is a fairly new purigen pack in the filter chamber so I would think they are low.

Essentially, I am scrambling to try and avoid the conversation with my 5 year old about how we killed off his livestock.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thank you,
Chris

reefnetworth · 07/03/2007, 11:05 PM

sounds like you need to do a water change immeadiatly, about 25%. stop the iodine dosing also, unless you are testing. thats emergency care for now! 2 perks in a 6G can produce alot of ammonia. change filters once a week with 25% water change.
JDM

flushedaway · 07/03/2007, 11:16 PM

Ok thank you. Of course, this would find me with no water on hand! I will get some in the morning, but I just hope it is not too late.

Thanks again,
Chris

Eskie · 07/04/2007, 02:22 AM

Do you have any Amquel Plus? If you do, dump it in now while waiting on SW. It inactivates both ammonia and nitrites, and might by you time if this is ammonia and/or nitrite poisoning.

Good luck.

Mark426 · 07/04/2007, 04:48 AM

The other posters are right ....do a 25% water change ASAP. then wait 2 days and do another 25%. Keep doing at least 25% water changes weekly.

I am afraid that you will run into problems like this over and over again. There is just no way to keep 2 clowns in a 6 gallon nano for very long. The hair algae is the perfect indication that you are overstocked, leaving the lights off wonâ€™t help. As soon as you turn them back on, same problem again, it just a vicious cycle. Get a larger tank or smaller fish, thatâ€™s the only solution. In a 6 gallon nano, you can have ONE small fish. Even a small clown is pushing it.

Stop dosing everything, that includes the stuff your doing to adjust the PH.

Mark

reefman13 · 07/04/2007, 07:14 AM

Your problem is ammonia. 2 clowns is WAY too much for a 6g. You need to upgrade to at least a 12g.

Personally, I would be snappy about those water changes, it may be the difference between life or death.

flushedaway · 07/04/2007, 06:09 PM

Thanks all! I am happy to report that the livestock made it through the night and appeared back to normal this morning. Our local aquarium store told us to do one gallon changes every two weeks.

I can see by your recomendations, it should be 1.5 every week.

Unfortunatly, a 6g is not for beginners. I can thank my brother-in-law for the Christmas present! We too think a larger tank would be less volitile and suseptable to minor fluxuations.

reefman13 · 07/04/2007, 08:16 PM

Well, you and your brother-in-law are smart people

In your situation, I would either upgrade to the 24g NC or wait for the 28g nano-cube.

BTW: How long has the tank been running? With the clowns?

flushedaway · 07/05/2007, 06:52 AM

Dave,
The tank has been up since Christmas 2005. We started with a clown and some snails. My brother in-law then brought over a Dwarf Coral Beauty. The clown sadly disappeared around 8 months ago, so we replaced him quietly and our son did not know. During a routine water change, I sadly found the original clown burried in the live rock rubble found in the filter chamber. To my astonishment - after two+ weeks - that clown was still alive! He jumped back into the tank, and now my wife and I had a huge problem! We got to explain that we were fish sitting for a friend and that is why there were now two clowns in the tank.

The angel died after about two months with all three fish in the tank - probably because of amonia from what you are telling me.

We added the peperment shrimp a few months ago to aid with cleaning, and the same steller store just sold us a scooter blenny for the hair algae ( and yes, they know the livestock load on the tank -- and still thought it was ok).

07/03/2007, 10:49 PM	#1
flushedaway Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 4	pale mouths and sluggish fish? I went to feed the fish in our 6 gallon nano tonight and noticed that they were: 1) not interested in food 2) barely moving while laying on the bottom of the tank 3) their mouths were pale and almost white Any idea what this could be? Here is some background: The two fish are pecula clowns, and the peperment shrimp looked almost white/clear - no more red pigmentation. We have been addressing a hair algae problem lately and have not been leaving the light on. We are also addressing a bristle worm infestation and have been fairly conservative in the ammount of food we are putting into the tank. We are taking great care to put a little at a time allowing the clowns to eat it all and then put in a little more etc. In general, the clowns eat as if they have not had a meal in days, so the current behavior is out of the norm. I checked our ph and it was low - around 7.8, and the alkalinity was within the tolerence range but on the high side of that window. I added in buffer to try to help with the ph, and I added iodine for the shrimp. I am leaving the light on, in the event they are missing something from that. I do not have a nitrate test kit, but there is a fairly new purigen pack in the filter chamber so I would think they are low. Essentially, I am scrambling to try and avoid the conversation with my 5 year old about how we killed off his livestock. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thank you, Chris

07/03/2007, 11:05 PM	#2
reefnetworth Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 3,843	sounds like you need to do a water change immeadiatly, about 25%. stop the iodine dosing also, unless you are testing. thats emergency care for now! 2 perks in a 6G can produce alot of ammonia. change filters once a week with 25% water change. JDM __________________ GIVE A MAN A FISH, YOU FEED HIM FOR A DAY. TEACH A MAN TO FISH, HE FEEDS HIMSELF FOR LIFE. (NEVER, underestimate another man's greed) Current Tank Info: SPS dominated barebottom display with BB sump since 2005, most consistant parameters in 19+ years of reefkeeping.

07/04/2007, 04:48 AM	#5
Mark426 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: South Carolina Posts: 1,359	The other posters are right ....do a 25% water change ASAP. then wait 2 days and do another 25%. Keep doing at least 25% water changes weekly. I am afraid that you will run into problems like this over and over again. There is just no way to keep 2 clowns in a 6 gallon nano for very long. The hair algae is the perfect indication that you are overstocked, leaving the lights off wonâ€™t help. As soon as you turn them back on, same problem again, it just a vicious cycle. Get a larger tank or smaller fish, thatâ€™s the only solution. In a 6 gallon nano, you can have ONE small fish. Even a small clown is pushing it. Stop dosing everything, that includes the stuff your doing to adjust the PH. Mark Last edited by Mark426; 07/04/2007 at 05:29 AM.

07/04/2007, 07:14 AM	#6
reefman13 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: CT Posts: 4,336	Your problem is ammonia. 2 clowns is WAY too much for a 6g. You need to upgrade to at least a 12g. Personally, I would be snappy about those water changes, it may be the difference between life or death. __________________ Regards, Dave ______________________________________________________________________ "One day I will be back in this hobby..." spoken like a true High School student... Current Tank Info: None for now.

07/04/2007, 08:16 PM	#8
reefman13 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: CT Posts: 4,336	Well, you and your brother-in-law are smart people In your situation, I would either upgrade to the 24g NC or wait for the 28g nano-cube. BTW: How long has the tank been running? With the clowns? __________________ Regards, Dave ______________________________________________________________________ "One day I will be back in this hobby..." spoken like a true High School student... Current Tank Info: None for now.

07/03/2007, 11:16 PM	#3
flushedaway Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 4	Ok thank you. Of course, this would find me with no water on hand! I will get some in the morning, but I just hope it is not too late. Thanks again, Chris

07/04/2007, 02:22 AM	#4
Eskie Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 59	Do you have any Amquel Plus? If you do, dump it in now while waiting on SW. It inactivates both ammonia and nitrites, and might by you time if this is ammonia and/or nitrite poisoning. Good luck.

07/04/2007, 06:09 PM	#7
flushedaway Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 4	Thanks all! I am happy to report that the livestock made it through the night and appeared back to normal this morning. Our local aquarium store told us to do one gallon changes every two weeks. I can see by your recomendations, it should be 1.5 every week. Unfortunatly, a 6g is not for beginners. I can thank my brother-in-law for the Christmas present! We too think a larger tank would be less volitile and suseptable to minor fluxuations.

07/05/2007, 06:52 AM	#9
flushedaway Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 4	Dave, The tank has been up since Christmas 2005. We started with a clown and some snails. My brother in-law then brought over a Dwarf Coral Beauty. The clown sadly disappeared around 8 months ago, so we replaced him quietly and our son did not know. During a routine water change, I sadly found the original clown burried in the live rock rubble found in the filter chamber. To my astonishment - after two+ weeks - that clown was still alive! He jumped back into the tank, and now my wife and I had a huge problem! We got to explain that we were fish sitting for a friend and that is why there were now two clowns in the tank. The angel died after about two months with all three fish in the tank - probably because of amonia from what you are telling me. We added the peperment shrimp a few months ago to aid with cleaning, and the same steller store just sold us a scooter blenny for the hair algae ( and yes, they know the livestock load on the tank -- and still thought it was ok).