if zoo's are so toxic...

da1jewfish · 09/28/2007, 08:27 PM

why did I see my lfs pick one up with his bare hands and put it in a bag? Is it just some zoos that have that palytoxin?

I want to get some tomorrow at a local meeting.

I have a 175 watt mh so I am good in that respect.

Also, they do have zooxanthelle right?

thanks

InADream · 09/28/2007, 09:06 PM

Zoos are that toxic when ingested or if they enter a cut... You can pick them up with your hands , just make sure you dont have any open cuts... Read the toxic paly story... If you squeeze them they will shoot a liquid basically water mixed with toxcin... They do have zooxanthelle and dont need to be fed... Get some and enjoy them...

Dream

gflat65 · 09/28/2007, 09:47 PM

Scroll down a few threads and read up on palytoxin. Seems to be a hot topic right now...

clockwurk · 09/28/2007, 09:48 PM

They are harmless as far as normal handling. Propagation and extensive handling can cause serious injury if safety precautions are not met. wear gloves, eye protection and you should be fine. The general rule is not for it to get into your eyes, mouth or bloodstream.

gflat65 · 09/29/2007, 09:34 AM

The truth is that very little is known about how much palytoxin is in any given zoa (except Palythoa toxica, which I believe are only found in one tide zone in Hawaii?). That and the fact that 99% of what people call palys are actually Zoanthus species (assuming that palytoxin is named for the most likely carrier of the toxin-Palythoa's), the likelihood of the zoas we play with having any measurable palytoxin is probably pretty low. My main argument is that if these are as poisonous as all of the armchair pseudo scientists claim they are, why are there NO medically documented cases of palytoxin poisoning (other than, oh, you fragged something in a saltwater aquarium with palytoixn, ah, so that must be the cause)? There are plenty of cases where palytoxin is blamed, but from the info I've seen on palytoxin, you're most likely not going to suffer a mild numbness, etc. There are so many things in our aquariums that cause infections and so little known about them. It sure is easy to jump on the bandwagon, though.

This seems to be reaching mass hysteria proportions, as I've seen several people talk about cleaning their tanks out of the 'toxic' corals and that they were floored that someone would sell them something so deadly and not tell them about how this coral can kill you if you touch it. If you take everything out of your tank that can cause infection, you'd end up with pretty much an empty glass box. Over reaction because of misinformation from those who 'know' more than they actually know is a sure way to mislead people. I don't think it is intentional (people are just passing on the misinformation they've heard from other misinformed sources), but it speaks to our habits (and not necessarily in a good way). Let's burn the witch (unless she floats like a duck

)...

Some semi famous writers and reef 'experts' put the blame of losing a lot of SPS on the fact that he had an overgrowth of Palythoas. The fault was not the Palythoas, but the fact that he used a wire bruch to scrub them off the rock in the tank. Gee. I wonder why everything in the tank died. Scrub out any animal in your tank and tell me if everything is fine the next day. Like most people, this person obviously couldn't accept the fact that he had done something completely bone headed, so he blamed the issue on the Paly's (and gleefully mentions how he singlehandedly put the squash on zoa collecting in Europe. He obviously thinks very highly of himself. This same person prints in one of his articles that .000001g of Palytoxin will kill a 220 pound human. According to the info I saw from an Army toxin research site last year (link is in one of the palytoxin threads in this forum, though you can't view the site anymore), .15g/kg was required to kill a mouse... I don't know what a mouse weighs, but lets say they weigh 10 grams (.01kg). That would mean that the required amount to kill the mouse would be somewhere closer to .0015g ((10g/1000)=(.01kg*(.15g/kg))-a far cry from .000001g... I'm no neurotoxin pro, and the mathematics I used may not be correect in term of actual relationship of the reaction, but even if I'm off by 100% on the calcs, I'm still showing a lot more is required to kill a mouse than was reported to kill a human. I tried to keep myself from ranting in the other thread...

09/28/2007, 08:27 PM	#1
da1jewfish Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: West Palm, FL Posts: 990	if zoo's are so toxic... why did I see my lfs pick one up with his bare hands and put it in a bag? Is it just some zoos that have that palytoxin? I want to get some tomorrow at a local meeting. I have a 175 watt mh so I am good in that respect. Also, they do have zooxanthelle right? thanks

09/28/2007, 09:06 PM	#2
InADream I'm That Guy!! Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Tampa, Florida Posts: 1,143	Zoos are that toxic when ingested or if they enter a cut... You can pick them up with your hands , just make sure you dont have any open cuts... Read the toxic paly story... If you squeeze them they will shoot a liquid basically water mixed with toxcin... They do have zooxanthelle and dont need to be fed... Get some and enjoy them... Dream __________________ Dan Current Tank Info: 90 Gallon Perfecto, Custom Built Stand, FAOIS 29g Sump, I-Tech 100 Skimmer w/ TUNZE HydroFoamer, DIY LED Nova Retrofit, DIY Arduino Reef Controller, MP40Wes & MP10Wes, Tunze Silence Return Pump

09/28/2007, 09:47 PM	#3
gflat65 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Montgomery, Al Posts: 8,718	Scroll down a few threads and read up on palytoxin. Seems to be a hot topic right now... __________________ Was it for this my life I sought... Maybe so Maybe not.

09/28/2007, 09:48 PM	#4
clockwurk Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Miami Posts: 840	They are harmless as far as normal handling. Propagation and extensive handling can cause serious injury if safety precautions are not met. wear gloves, eye protection and you should be fine. The general rule is not for it to get into your eyes, mouth or bloodstream. __________________ I tried modifying my avatar so that it would fit the size requirements for ReefCentral, but after frankensteining the the graphic, I ended up with a limping Venom. Current Tank Info: 34g Solana \| Panorama Pro LED & Powerbrites

09/29/2007, 09:34 AM	#5
gflat65 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Montgomery, Al Posts: 8,718	The truth is that very little is known about how much palytoxin is in any given zoa (except Palythoa toxica, which I believe are only found in one tide zone in Hawaii?). That and the fact that 99% of what people call palys are actually Zoanthus species (assuming that palytoxin is named for the most likely carrier of the toxin-Palythoa's), the likelihood of the zoas we play with having any measurable palytoxin is probably pretty low. My main argument is that if these are as poisonous as all of the armchair pseudo scientists claim they are, why are there NO medically documented cases of palytoxin poisoning (other than, oh, you fragged something in a saltwater aquarium with palytoixn, ah, so that must be the cause)? There are plenty of cases where palytoxin is blamed, but from the info I've seen on palytoxin, you're most likely not going to suffer a mild numbness, etc. There are so many things in our aquariums that cause infections and so little known about them. It sure is easy to jump on the bandwagon, though. This seems to be reaching mass hysteria proportions, as I've seen several people talk about cleaning their tanks out of the 'toxic' corals and that they were floored that someone would sell them something so deadly and not tell them about how this coral can kill you if you touch it. If you take everything out of your tank that can cause infection, you'd end up with pretty much an empty glass box. Over reaction because of misinformation from those who 'know' more than they actually know is a sure way to mislead people. I don't think it is intentional (people are just passing on the misinformation they've heard from other misinformed sources), but it speaks to our habits (and not necessarily in a good way). Let's burn the witch (unless she floats like a duck)... Some semi famous writers and reef 'experts' put the blame of losing a lot of SPS on the fact that he had an overgrowth of Palythoas. The fault was not the Palythoas, but the fact that he used a wire bruch to scrub them off the rock in the tank. Gee. I wonder why everything in the tank died. Scrub out any animal in your tank and tell me if everything is fine the next day. Like most people, this person obviously couldn't accept the fact that he had done something completely bone headed, so he blamed the issue on the Paly's (and gleefully mentions how he singlehandedly put the squash on zoa collecting in Europe. He obviously thinks very highly of himself. This same person prints in one of his articles that .000001g of Palytoxin will kill a 220 pound human. According to the info I saw from an Army toxin research site last year (link is in one of the palytoxin threads in this forum, though you can't view the site anymore), .15g/kg was required to kill a mouse... I don't know what a mouse weighs, but lets say they weigh 10 grams (.01kg). That would mean that the required amount to kill the mouse would be somewhere closer to .0015g ((10g/1000)=(.01kg*(.15g/kg))-a far cry from .000001g... I'm no neurotoxin pro, and the mathematics I used may not be correect in term of actual relationship of the reaction, but even if I'm off by 100% on the calcs, I'm still showing a lot more is required to kill a mouse than was reported to kill a human. I tried to keep myself from ranting in the other thread... __________________ Was it for this my life I sought... Maybe so Maybe not.