Buffering top-off water?

law086 · 12/14/2007, 10:14 PM

I'm sure this will end up being a silly question for those that know the first thing about water chemistry (which I don't)... but here it goes...

Is there any reason that one can't buffer top off water with chemicals such as calcium chloride and sodium bicarbonate? It's seems like a really obvious solution to me, so there must be a reason that people don't do it.

I'm thinking it would make sense to buffer the top off water to extreme high levels so that the aquaria water buffered as top off water is added to the system. The more buffer you need, the high concentration of buffer you'd add to the top off water.

What am I missing?

Thanks!
Ron

sjm817 · 12/14/2007, 10:47 PM

Calcium Hydroxide AKA Limewater, Kalkwasser is very often used as topoff.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.php

bertoni · 12/14/2007, 11:13 PM

Calcium chloride and sodium bicarbonate will precipitate at very low concentrations. Calcium acetate and limewater are the only practical one-parts I've seen suggested, and calcium acetate actually gets very expensive for all but tiny tanks.

law086 · 12/15/2007, 06:07 AM

sym817 - I'm familiar with calcium hydroxide... I already run a reactor. It obviously cannot solely keep up with my calcium and alkalinity demands.

Jon - can you better define 'low concentrations'?

Thanks!
Ron

mcneilwh · 12/15/2007, 12:17 PM

You can make your own Calcium Acetate by mixing a little vinegar in with you Limewater. This will also help with control of phosphates and nitrate over the long term. See the other past links and threads

Billybeau1 · 12/15/2007, 12:22 PM

Although some do it, I am not a fan of using vinegar in my tank.

I feel the potential dangers outweigh the benefits.

I've always been a big fan of "if you don't need it. don't add it".

bertoni · 12/15/2007, 05:09 PM

Low concentrations means much less than limewater.

It's possible to use a two-channel peristaltic to dose two separate solutions, though.

capn_hylinur · 12/15/2007, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by law086
I'm sure this will end up being a silly question for those that know the first thing about water chemistry (which I don't)... but here it goes...

Is there any reason that one can't buffer top off water with chemicals such as calcium chloride and sodium bicarbonate? It's seems like a really obvious solution to me, so there must be a reason that people don't do it.

I'm thinking it would make sense to buffer the top off water to extreme high levels so that the aquaria water buffered as top off water is added to the system. The more buffer you need, the high concentration of buffer you'd add to the top off water.

What am I missing?

Thanks!
Ron

I would want to use only r/0 water for top ups. Then I would take measurements of the entire water coloum, tank, sump and refug--treat it as a whole --it gives more stability then adding a certain level in the top off water and prevents a possilbe "sea-saw" ( pun intended ) effect that some sps corals would not like.

law086 · 12/15/2007, 08:03 PM

Thanks folks... makes more sense now.

Ron

12/14/2007, 10:14 PM	#1
law086 Premium Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: New Tripoli, PA Posts: 1,314	Buffering top-off water? I'm sure this will end up being a silly question for those that know the first thing about water chemistry (which I don't)... but here it goes... Is there any reason that one can't buffer top off water with chemicals such as calcium chloride and sodium bicarbonate? It's seems like a really obvious solution to me, so there must be a reason that people don't do it. I'm thinking it would make sense to buffer the top off water to extreme high levels so that the aquaria water buffered as top off water is added to the system. The more buffer you need, the high concentration of buffer you'd add to the top off water. What am I missing? Thanks! Ron __________________ "We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl, year after year." Current Tank Info: 180 RR ~ 150g sump ~ 100g fuge ~ 30g frag tank ~ Bermuda Aquatics 8C on Mag18~ GenX 55 return ~ 3 SureFlow MaxiMods, Tunze 6000 ~ 40w Gamma UV ~ 175w x 3 MH ~ 160w x 2 VHO

12/14/2007, 10:47 PM	#2
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 19,260	Calcium Hydroxide AKA Limewater, Kalkwasser is very often used as topoff. http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.php __________________ - Scott

12/14/2007, 11:13 PM	#3
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 68,505	Calcium chloride and sodium bicarbonate will precipitate at very low concentrations. Calcium acetate and limewater are the only practical one-parts I've seen suggested, and calcium acetate actually gets very expensive for all but tiny tanks. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

12/15/2007, 06:07 AM	#4
law086 Premium Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: New Tripoli, PA Posts: 1,314	sym817 - I'm familiar with calcium hydroxide... I already run a reactor. It obviously cannot solely keep up with my calcium and alkalinity demands. Jon - can you better define 'low concentrations'? Thanks! Ron __________________ "We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl, year after year." Current Tank Info: 180 RR ~ 150g sump ~ 100g fuge ~ 30g frag tank ~ Bermuda Aquatics 8C on Mag18~ GenX 55 return ~ 3 SureFlow MaxiMods, Tunze 6000 ~ 40w Gamma UV ~ 175w x 3 MH ~ 160w x 2 VHO

12/15/2007, 05:09 PM	#7
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 68,505	Low concentrations means much less than limewater. It's possible to use a two-channel peristaltic to dose two separate solutions, though. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

12/15/2007, 12:17 PM	#5
mcneilwh Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: boise idaho Posts: 48	You can make your own Calcium Acetate by mixing a little vinegar in with you Limewater. This will also help with control of phosphates and nitrate over the long term. See the other past links and threads

12/15/2007, 12:22 PM	#6
Billybeau1 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Dyer, Indiana Posts: 12,164	Although some do it, I am not a fan of using vinegar in my tank. I feel the potential dangers outweigh the benefits. I've always been a big fan of "if you don't need it. don't add it".

12/15/2007, 08:03 PM	#9
law086 Premium Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: New Tripoli, PA Posts: 1,314	Thanks folks... makes more sense now. Ron __________________ "We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl, year after year." Current Tank Info: 180 RR ~ 150g sump ~ 100g fuge ~ 30g frag tank ~ Bermuda Aquatics 8C on Mag18~ GenX 55 return ~ 3 SureFlow MaxiMods, Tunze 6000 ~ 40w Gamma UV ~ 175w x 3 MH ~ 160w x 2 VHO