Is Amquel Plus safe to use with Cupramine?

pescadero · 04/18/2008, 01:11 AM

Is it safe to use Amquel Plus to remove ammonia in a QT tank that is being treated with Cupramine?

I'm concerned that the sodium hydroxymethanesulfonate in Amquel Plus might reduce the copper in the Cupramine from Copper(II) to Copper(I).

thanks.

tylorarm · 04/18/2008, 07:53 PM

I see the answer you got on the Seachem forum to this same question. The fact that amquel turns cupramine into deadly form of copper is news to me, and probably cost me a bunch of fish. I can't believe there's no warning on either products label if this is correct. Good that you brought this up here so other unsuspecting reefers don't kill their fish trying to save them.

pescadero · 04/18/2008, 08:09 PM

I'm with you -- IMO *BOTH* medications should have warnings on them about incompatibility with the other product.

Interestingly, I asked this question of the tech support people at Seachem (Cupramine) and Novalek (Amquel Plus). I've read all of the product literature for both products. The Amquel people pointed me to their product literature and two articles relating to their copper products. (I actually felt like I was getting more of a sales pitch from Novalek, trying to sell me on their copper based remedies, rather than a technical answer to my question).

Neither manufacturer mentions that their product is incompatible (in a deadly fashion) with the other manufacturer's product.

Neither manufacturer mentions that their product is incompatible (in a deadly fashion) with their own similar product.

Neither manufacturer even mentions that their product is incompatible (in a deadly fashion) with an entire class of drugs, even though their product literature contains a section entitled "contraindications."

Causing fish death through poisoning is clearly a contraindication to the product's use. This represents a serious labeling error that needs to be fixed.

If I didn't have a degree in chemistry and a nerd's interest in understanding the mechanism of action of the drug, I'd have several tanks full of floating fish right now.

pescadero · 04/18/2008, 08:30 PM

link to that other thread:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...readid=1373316

tylorarm · 04/18/2008, 09:52 PM

Explains why i had mass die off with only small amount of ammonia in very short period of time in HT. None of them were likely even sick, however, put them in hospital tank after accidently introducing a fish with velvet into my DT. Rock torn down, fish caught, all just to poison them all. Most i had for at least a couple years.

04/18/2008, 01:11 AM	#1
pescadero Moved On Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,749	Is Amquel Plus safe to use with Cupramine? Is it safe to use Amquel Plus to remove ammonia in a QT tank that is being treated with Cupramine? I'm concerned that the sodium hydroxymethanesulfonate in Amquel Plus might reduce the copper in the Cupramine from Copper(II) to Copper(I). thanks.

04/18/2008, 08:09 PM	#3
pescadero Moved On Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,749	I'm with you -- IMO BOTH medications should have warnings on them about incompatibility with the other product. Interestingly, I asked this question of the tech support people at Seachem (Cupramine) and Novalek (Amquel Plus). I've read all of the product literature for both products. The Amquel people pointed me to their product literature and two articles relating to their copper products. (I actually felt like I was getting more of a sales pitch from Novalek, trying to sell me on their copper based remedies, rather than a technical answer to my question). Neither manufacturer mentions that their product is incompatible (in a deadly fashion) with the other manufacturer's product. Neither manufacturer mentions that their product is incompatible (in a deadly fashion) with their own similar product. Neither manufacturer even mentions that their product is incompatible (in a deadly fashion) with an entire class of drugs, even though their product literature contains a section entitled "contraindications." Causing fish death through poisoning is clearly a contraindication to the product's use. This represents a serious labeling error that needs to be fixed. If I didn't have a degree in chemistry and a nerd's interest in understanding the mechanism of action of the drug, I'd have several tanks full of floating fish right now. Last edited by pescadero; 04/18/2008 at 08:17 PM.

04/18/2008, 07:53 PM	#2
tylorarm Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 759	I see the answer you got on the Seachem forum to this same question. The fact that amquel turns cupramine into deadly form of copper is news to me, and probably cost me a bunch of fish. I can't believe there's no warning on either products label if this is correct. Good that you brought this up here so other unsuspecting reefers don't kill their fish trying to save them.

04/18/2008, 08:30 PM	#4
pescadero Moved On Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,749	link to that other thread: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...readid=1373316

04/18/2008, 09:52 PM	#5
tylorarm Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 759	Explains why i had mass die off with only small amount of ammonia in very short period of time in HT. None of them were likely even sick, however, put them in hospital tank after accidently introducing a fish with velvet into my DT. Rock torn down, fish caught, all just to poison them all. Most i had for at least a couple years.