Established Ricordea Dying

Tasmanian · 05/20/2008, 10:18 AM

I have/had an established colony of florida ricordea. There were about 60 or so. This colony has been in my tank for over two years and has grown from maybe 10 original ricordea. Here is a picture of them last week.

Tasmanian · 05/20/2008, 10:20 AM

Here is a pic of it this morning
[IMG]http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/92375ricordea_dying.jpg[IMG]

Tasmanian · 05/20/2008, 10:23 AM

Tasmanian · 05/20/2008, 10:24 AM

here is a close up of one of the dying ones

Tasmanian · 05/20/2008, 10:39 AM

This has happened over the last two days. They are just melting! They look to be shrunken up with mucus on them after they die. You can see on the edge of one of the close ones to the dead spot that they are starting to melt too.

They are on a rock at the bottom of my tank and impossibe to move without taking my tank down.

Here are my params:
salinity 1.0255
cal 425
dkh 7 ( a bit low but always is for over two years always struggle with it)
phos, Nitrates 0
Mag 1250

T5 lighting- changed out a few bulbs about 3 months ago

A little over two months ago I had a clam that I'd had for a few years die quickly.
A week and a half ago I had a huge leather go through something weird. The base of it started tearing up and disintegrating then it just started to heal. (thought I'd mention that in case there is a relationship)

Any ideas what is going on?
Is there anything I can do to stop it?
It was so beautiful and I am just sick about it.
Thanks for any help

sbcaes · 05/20/2008, 08:29 PM

try the vitamin c dosing used for zoas. seems to amke mine bounce right back after looking crappy. =)

Tasmanian · 05/21/2008, 09:53 AM

I'll head to the LFS and see if I can find any. There are four more rics gone this morning and two more disintegrating. I'm afraid I'm going to watch the whole colony disappear.
Has anyone ever seen anything like this?

Tasmanian · 05/21/2008, 12:35 PM

BTW when you look at the picture of the ricordea dying the big white circular thing between the live ricordea is NOT the dying one. That is just a bit of the rock that happens to be shaped very much like a ric! The dying one is the brown gook to the right of the whitish circular thing. You can see the roots of some macro algae growing kind of shaped in a V. The dying ric is in the V.

dc_909 · 05/21/2008, 07:29 PM

looks like brown jelly.

frag them and keep the nicest looking ones

Tasmanian · 05/22/2008, 10:00 AM

Thanks for the input dc
I read up on brown jelly disease and it seems to be a secondary infection. Which would indicate that something was wrong in the first place. But for the life of me I can't figure out what. You can see from the picture taken two days before it started how healthy they looked.
I'm going to go get a turkey baster and try to suck off some of the mucus on the two that are "melting" now. They are all the way on the bottom of my tank and my arms aren't that long so hopefully I don't have to submerge my entire upper body in the tank! Because of that and the fact that they are all over a rock that the other rocks are sitting on, I'm not sure how to frag them. If I could have gotten the rock out without taking the tank down I would have dipped them. I have often wondered how people dip or otherwise treat ailing coral that has grown and spread across the rocks in established tanks. Any tips?

It seems like the ones to the right are going to be spared. but any that touched each other just go next....

I'll post a new picture to show where they are now.
Has this ever happened to anybody? Or has anybody ever seen this happen to florida rics?

Tasmanian · 05/22/2008, 10:19 AM

Tasmanian · 05/22/2008, 10:28 AM

In the pic above see how they just kind of shrivel up and then disappear? The one that was in the V of the roots in one of the previous pictures is now totally gone.

I wanted to also show you a pic of the leather. I'll post one of the leather now that seems to be doing fine and a second of the area that is now healing. The area that is healing kind of tore apart. It used to be attached to two rocks and it tore up and is now on only one and has begun to heal. The reason I'm showing this is because when the bits started coming off they would blow all over the tank until I saw them and got them out. I'm wondering if a piece landed on the rics in the night and started this.
I'm probably grasping at straws....

Tasmanian · 05/22/2008, 10:29 AM

Tasmanian · 05/22/2008, 10:31 AM

sugartooth · 05/22/2008, 10:47 AM

Have you dosed anything that would result in a strange algae bloom?

I have had similar melting after a kalk incident, and then a subsequent strange brown 'snot' looking episode that lasted for a couple of weeks. After a few water changes things started to look back to normal. I did lose some mushrooms.

Could be coincidence.....I hope you are able to stop it. Those are beautiful.

Tasmanian · 05/22/2008, 01:33 PM

Thanks Sugartooth
It feels a little better to at least "share" the pain!

To answer your question, not that I know of. I dose Randy's two part with a dosing machine. l adjusted it a bit ago to try to keep up with the tank load. Since then my Calcium has been a bit high which has resulted in my staghorns growing like crazy and crazy growth of the calcifying halimeda algae. That is the green you see in the background of the pictures.
My protien Skimmer hasn't bee producing much for about two weeks but I've also had very little algae on the glass and haven't had to clean it very often-maybe every fourth or fifth day by pulling the magnetic cleaner over it.

Here is what I just tried. I sucked any mucus off of the two shriveling ones. Then i squirted Reef Plus vitamin and amino acid supplement on them. (Sbcaes that was as close as I could find to vitamin c at my LFS) I dosed it yesterday but decided to squirt the messed up ones today for extra targeting! LOL Probably makes no sense at all, but at least I feel like I'm trying!

Jimbo327 · 05/22/2008, 04:21 PM

Here's what you have to do.

Water change. Run carbon.

That's all you can do. Those are ricordia floridas, and are very hardy. There must have been something in your water or a quick parameter change to bring on this problem. Stop the 2 part for now until you can get your water into balance.

I would do a series of water changes quick.

chillman · 05/22/2008, 09:55 PM

Tas - did you add any other coral to the tank, or move any around? Perhaps something is fighting with it. I once added an orange crush acan not knowing it is aggressive to neighboring coral and it literally melted 8 rics off a rock before I realized it. I saved the last two by moving them to another tank and then they did fine. Just a suggestion.

sugartooth · 05/22/2008, 10:07 PM

Last ditch effort, maybe dip in Coral Revive?

RRaider · 05/23/2008, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jimbo327
Here's what you have to do.

Water change. Run carbon.

That's all you can do. Those are ricordia floridas, and are very hardy. There must have been something in your water or a quick parameter change to bring on this problem. Stop the 2 part for now until you can get your water into balance.

I would do a series of water changes quick.

+1

Tasmanian · 05/23/2008, 01:09 PM

Thank you for your comments and suggestions.

I did a water change the day after it first started. I also changed out the carbon the same day. I run an Ehiem canister filter full of marineland black diamond carbon for my carbon filtration.

I will do another water change today. My tank is set up to do max water changes of about 40 gallons or 15% at a time.

I've thought there must have been a quick water parameter change or something as well. I tested all water parameters on the Thursday before it started happening and then tested everything again on the Tuesday that I noticed it. The only difference was the calcium was a tad higher but that could have been the result of reading the test differently. I use salifert tests. I also can't imagine that a slight increase in Calcium would do this. Perhaps something happened inbetween Thursday and Tuesday that I am unaware of.

What parameters specifically would be most likely to effect Florida ricordea?

I agree they are incredibly hardy! These have been in my tank for over two years and have grown from 10 polyps to 60+ (and now back down again). The part that I don't understand about the water parameter part is that it would seem like some of the other more sensitive corals in my tank would be showing some distress as well...especially if it was so bad as to effect the rics! Does that make sense?

Also, the only ones affected seem to be the ones that touch the ones or one going bad at the time so something is definitely spreading.

Chillman,
The only thing I added were the two rics that are on top of the second picture. I moved them and placed them on top of the rock that had all of these rics on it. They probably did touch and that is where the problem started. Hmmmmmm. Could they have had some kind of dormant funk that they could fight off but this other colony could not? Is that possible? Those two are still fine.

Sugartooth,
Thanks but not possible to dip them. They are on a rock at the bottom of the pile

That's why I tried to squirt vitamins at them! LOL

2 more gone today....

airinhere · 05/23/2008, 09:05 PM

How long ago did you add the new rics? Maybe there were hitchikers on them.....

What about temp fluctuations?

Are the remaining ricordeas mouths gaping or do the rics look like they are otherwise in poor health?

You might have to get them out and dip them if you want to save that very nice colony.

05/20/2008, 10:18 AM	#1
Tasmanian Premium Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 45	Established Ricordea Dying I have/had an established colony of florida ricordea. There were about 60 or so. This colony has been in my tank for over two years and has grown from maybe 10 original ricordea. Here is a picture of them last week.

05/22/2008, 10:47 AM	#15
sugartooth Reef bully Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: IL Posts: 2,803	Have you dosed anything that would result in a strange algae bloom? I have had similar melting after a kalk incident, and then a subsequent strange brown 'snot' looking episode that lasted for a couple of weeks. After a few water changes things started to look back to normal. I did lose some mushrooms. Could be coincidence.....I hope you are able to stop it. Those are beautiful. __________________ Remembering those who stood defiant in the face of death, for their country, for our freedom. -Defiance- Current Tank Info: 750 gallon \| 150 gal. onyx:gigantea \| Tansu style system

05/22/2008, 04:21 PM	#17
Jimbo327 Registered Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,138	Here's what you have to do. Water change. Run carbon. That's all you can do. Those are ricordia floridas, and are very hardy. There must have been something in your water or a quick parameter change to bring on this problem. Stop the 2 part for now until you can get your water into balance. I would do a series of water changes quick. __________________ "If sometimes you feel little, useless, offended or depressed or get that loser feeling, always remember that you were once the fastest and most victorious sperm out of hundreds of millions..." Current Tank Info: 6gal JBJ NanoCube, DIY LED Mod, 1/15 JBJ Chiller, Tunze Osmolator, Homemade Kalkwasser Chamber

05/22/2008, 10:07 PM	#19
sugartooth Reef bully Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: IL Posts: 2,803	Last ditch effort, maybe dip in Coral Revive? __________________ Remembering those who stood defiant in the face of death, for their country, for our freedom. -Defiance- Current Tank Info: 750 gallon \| 150 gal. onyx:gigantea \| Tansu style system

05/23/2008, 09:05 PM	#22
airinhere Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Cayman Islands Posts: 1,256	How long ago did you add the new rics? Maybe there were hitchikers on them..... What about temp fluctuations? Are the remaining ricordeas mouths gaping or do the rics look like they are otherwise in poor health? You might have to get them out and dip them if you want to save that very nice colony. __________________ Quit your job. Buy a ticket. Get a tan. Fall in love. Never return. Current Tank Info: 20 gallon roundfront and 75 gallon

05/20/2008, 10:20 AM	#2
Tasmanian Premium Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 45	Here is a pic of it this morning [IMG]http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/92375ricordea_dying.jpg[IMG]

05/20/2008, 10:23 AM	#3
Tasmanian Premium Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 45

05/20/2008, 10:24 AM	#4
Tasmanian Premium Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 45	here is a close up of one of the dying ones

05/20/2008, 10:39 AM	#5
Tasmanian Premium Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 45	This has happened over the last two days. They are just melting! They look to be shrunken up with mucus on them after they die. You can see on the edge of one of the close ones to the dead spot that they are starting to melt too. They are on a rock at the bottom of my tank and impossibe to move without taking my tank down. Here are my params: salinity 1.0255 cal 425 dkh 7 ( a bit low but always is for over two years always struggle with it) phos, Nitrates 0 Mag 1250 T5 lighting- changed out a few bulbs about 3 months ago A little over two months ago I had a clam that I'd had for a few years die quickly. A week and a half ago I had a huge leather go through something weird. The base of it started tearing up and disintegrating then it just started to heal. (thought I'd mention that in case there is a relationship) Any ideas what is going on? Is there anything I can do to stop it? It was so beautiful and I am just sick about it. Thanks for any help

05/20/2008, 08:29 PM	#6
sbcaes Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Santa Barbara Posts: 952	try the vitamin c dosing used for zoas. seems to amke mine bounce right back after looking crappy. =)

05/21/2008, 09:53 AM	#7
Tasmanian Premium Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 45	I'll head to the LFS and see if I can find any. There are four more rics gone this morning and two more disintegrating. I'm afraid I'm going to watch the whole colony disappear. Has anyone ever seen anything like this?

05/21/2008, 12:35 PM	#8
Tasmanian Premium Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 45	BTW when you look at the picture of the ricordea dying the big white circular thing between the live ricordea is NOT the dying one. That is just a bit of the rock that happens to be shaped very much like a ric! The dying one is the brown gook to the right of the whitish circular thing. You can see the roots of some macro algae growing kind of shaped in a V. The dying ric is in the V.

05/21/2008, 07:29 PM	#9
dc_909 Moved On Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Murrieta, CA Posts: 3,261	looks like brown jelly. frag them and keep the nicest looking ones

05/22/2008, 10:00 AM	#10
Tasmanian Premium Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 45	Thanks for the input dc I read up on brown jelly disease and it seems to be a secondary infection. Which would indicate that something was wrong in the first place. But for the life of me I can't figure out what. You can see from the picture taken two days before it started how healthy they looked. I'm going to go get a turkey baster and try to suck off some of the mucus on the two that are "melting" now. They are all the way on the bottom of my tank and my arms aren't that long so hopefully I don't have to submerge my entire upper body in the tank! Because of that and the fact that they are all over a rock that the other rocks are sitting on, I'm not sure how to frag them. If I could have gotten the rock out without taking the tank down I would have dipped them. I have often wondered how people dip or otherwise treat ailing coral that has grown and spread across the rocks in established tanks. Any tips? It seems like the ones to the right are going to be spared. but any that touched each other just go next.... I'll post a new picture to show where they are now. Has this ever happened to anybody? Or has anybody ever seen this happen to florida rics?

05/22/2008, 10:19 AM	#11
Tasmanian Premium Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 45

05/22/2008, 10:28 AM	#12
Tasmanian Premium Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 45	In the pic above see how they just kind of shrivel up and then disappear? The one that was in the V of the roots in one of the previous pictures is now totally gone. I wanted to also show you a pic of the leather. I'll post one of the leather now that seems to be doing fine and a second of the area that is now healing. The area that is healing kind of tore apart. It used to be attached to two rocks and it tore up and is now on only one and has begun to heal. The reason I'm showing this is because when the bits started coming off they would blow all over the tank until I saw them and got them out. I'm wondering if a piece landed on the rics in the night and started this. I'm probably grasping at straws....

05/22/2008, 10:29 AM	#13
Tasmanian Premium Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 45

05/22/2008, 10:31 AM	#14
Tasmanian Premium Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 45

05/22/2008, 01:33 PM	#16
Tasmanian Premium Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 45	Thanks Sugartooth It feels a little better to at least "share" the pain! To answer your question, not that I know of. I dose Randy's two part with a dosing machine. l adjusted it a bit ago to try to keep up with the tank load. Since then my Calcium has been a bit high which has resulted in my staghorns growing like crazy and crazy growth of the calcifying halimeda algae. That is the green you see in the background of the pictures. My protien Skimmer hasn't bee producing much for about two weeks but I've also had very little algae on the glass and haven't had to clean it very often-maybe every fourth or fifth day by pulling the magnetic cleaner over it. Here is what I just tried. I sucked any mucus off of the two shriveling ones. Then i squirted Reef Plus vitamin and amino acid supplement on them. (Sbcaes that was as close as I could find to vitamin c at my LFS) I dosed it yesterday but decided to squirt the messed up ones today for extra targeting! LOL Probably makes no sense at all, but at least I feel like I'm trying!

05/22/2008, 09:55 PM	#18
chillman Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: SI, NY Posts: 164	Tas - did you add any other coral to the tank, or move any around? Perhaps something is fighting with it. I once added an orange crush acan not knowing it is aggressive to neighboring coral and it literally melted 8 rics off a rock before I realized it. I saved the last two by moving them to another tank and then they did fine. Just a suggestion.

05/23/2008, 01:09 PM	#21
Tasmanian Premium Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 45	Thank you for your comments and suggestions. I did a water change the day after it first started. I also changed out the carbon the same day. I run an Ehiem canister filter full of marineland black diamond carbon for my carbon filtration. I will do another water change today. My tank is set up to do max water changes of about 40 gallons or 15% at a time. I've thought there must have been a quick water parameter change or something as well. I tested all water parameters on the Thursday before it started happening and then tested everything again on the Tuesday that I noticed it. The only difference was the calcium was a tad higher but that could have been the result of reading the test differently. I use salifert tests. I also can't imagine that a slight increase in Calcium would do this. Perhaps something happened inbetween Thursday and Tuesday that I am unaware of. What parameters specifically would be most likely to effect Florida ricordea? I agree they are incredibly hardy! These have been in my tank for over two years and have grown from 10 polyps to 60+ (and now back down again). The part that I don't understand about the water parameter part is that it would seem like some of the other more sensitive corals in my tank would be showing some distress as well...especially if it was so bad as to effect the rics! Does that make sense? Also, the only ones affected seem to be the ones that touch the ones or one going bad at the time so something is definitely spreading. Chillman, The only thing I added were the two rics that are on top of the second picture. I moved them and placed them on top of the rock that had all of these rics on it. They probably did touch and that is where the problem started. Hmmmmmm. Could they have had some kind of dormant funk that they could fight off but this other colony could not? Is that possible? Those two are still fine. Sugartooth, Thanks but not possible to dip them. They are on a rock at the bottom of the pile That's why I tried to squirt vitamins at them! LOL 2 more gone today....