Balling light manual - Page 2

geomanolo · 08/22/2010, 05:42 AM

When using this method do we have to use a specific salt?
As i understand when adding these salts to the system we add NaCI witch affects the specific gravity... Does this mean for example when adding total 150 ml of solution that this is how match water we have to remove from the system?? Or we simply can get away by using NaCI free salt???

C. Schuhmacher · 08/22/2010, 03:20 PM

Hi

No you need only to check your salinty regulary. Balling light is a full system and you did not need any NACL free salt.

rgds claude

geomanolo · 08/22/2010, 06:47 PM

Thanks for the fast reply
One final question
I am currently doing 10% water change per month.
Is it ok if I keep this schedule or I have to do weekly water changes as you suggest in the manual ? ( is it essential for ballin method?)

fishypets · 08/22/2010, 08:51 PM

You will notice a very slight increase with salinity. I get away with a water change every other week. Plus your corals will thank you for the often mineral/element replacment

geomanolo · 08/23/2010, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishypets

You will notice a very slight increase with salinity. I get away with a water change every other week. Plus your corals will thank you for the often mineral/element replacment

Thanks
I guess it will be a good thing that i will HAVE to do more often water changes

rick12 · 10/28/2010, 11:47 AM

the older container for the CA had instructions for weight of product mixed with 2000ml RO water. well, thats what i have been doing for a long time but i no longer have any of the older containers and the new packaging does not provide this. i dont remember the mix weight.
anyone have this info please?

also, side note that the new plastic package does not have a weight on the bag. i have to assume it is 1kg???

Luckylouse · 10/28/2010, 05:41 PM

Mix 2 KG of CA with 5Liter of Water

Mix 2 KG of Mag with 5 Liters of water

Mix 500g of Sodium Bi-Carb to 5 Liters of Water

Containers come in 1 KG and 4 KG

rick12 · 10/28/2010, 05:48 PM

thanks LL. so my 1kg of the CA mixed in 2.5ltrs of RO.
i think the mix instructions have changed over time. much stronger mix.

Luckylouse · 10/28/2010, 06:41 PM

Ya. Just dose less. I'm dosing via a Profilx dosing unit. I dose about 30 - 35ml of CA in a 150Gal tan. I have about 50+ corals though.

rick12 · 10/28/2010, 06:44 PM

here are the old instructions.
for CA add 144g of calcium chloridedihydrate to 2000ml of RO water

for sodium b. add 163.8g to 2000ml

and for mag. it is 199.2g of mag chloride hex along with 25.02g of mg. sulfate heptahydrate

took a lot more solution.

Luckylouse · 10/28/2010, 07:14 PM

WOW... that quite a difference. Your dosing pumps would run a whole lot longer with those concentrations.

marcin11379 · 11/13/2010, 07:58 PM

Hi a use zeovit products and can start balling light ,but I do not know where buy all products. I live in New York.

DML08 · 12/03/2010, 04:15 PM

Claude, is the Trace B Iodine going in the ALK solution now.. I thought I remember A revised recipe, but cant find it now..

C. Schuhmacher · 12/04/2010, 06:03 PM

Hi

Yes they do ,,, the manual can be download from www.faunamarin.de

New York is greenwhich aquaria as sample or online by cheery corals or odwall aquarium

Tparsons · 12/05/2010, 09:07 PM

Marcin11379 Unique Corals also carries the Fauna Line.

Kahuna · 02/18/2011, 08:35 PM

Hello, Claude:

I just purchased a Reefdoser Quadro and a local shop told me about balling, and that I should try that route. I already dose Randy's Recipe 3-part, and would need to change my ingredient mixture to move to your method, which is OK. I'm having some issues:

1. The quantities are in a metric form. I do not weigh my ingredients. Can you or someone else here provide a recipe for alk/mag/calc that uses US volumetric equivalents; i.e. 1 gal RO/DI water to 2 cups of dry X ingredient? I'm sure that others here would appreciate it as well.

2. Can I use the same basic ingredients as I'm currently using in the Randy's Recipe 3-part (minus the Epsom Salts for mg)? It would save a lot of money. I'd still need the Fauna Marin additives.

3. I noted that to raise my calcium in my 115 gal system from 380 to 450 and my alk from 7.0 to 9.5 takes over a gallon each of your mixture in a week's time. That seems incorrect; lethal in the tank. Am I misreading something?

Please advise. I admire your product and look forward to using it!

Kev

Jimmy54 · 02/20/2011, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick12

here are the old instructions.
for CA add 144g of calcium chloridedihydrate to 2000ml of RO water

for sodium b. add 163.8g to 2000ml

and for mag. it is 199.2g of mag chloride hex along with 25.02g of mg. sulfate heptahydrate

took a lot more solution.

This is used in the original/classic Balling Method which is based on the molar mass of CaCl2 2H2O (147 gr/mol), NaHCO3 (84 gr/mol) and the calcification process which says:
for each calcium ion the coral needs two parts of bicarbonate, as in Ca2+ +2HCO3 <=> CaCO3 + CO2 + H2O.
So by doubling the molar mass of NaHCO3 to 168 gr, there will be two bicarbonates available voor each calcium ion.
The solubility of NaHCO3 is 99 gr/liter, so 168 gram per 2 liter is'nt so bad at all.

Another thing: it is easy to calculate how much to dose, the onley thing you have to know is the calcium-consumption.
Every 147 gram of CaCl2 2H2O containes 40 gram calcium (that's the molar mass of calcium) Disolved in 2 liter water gives us 20 mg/ml.
Calcium consumption is e.g. 5 mg/l per day in a 500 liter tank.
The math: Contents of the aquarium X calcium consumption / solution in mg/ml.
500 x 5 / 20 = 125 ml for both the calcium - and alk solution.
You can't get around the solubility of sodium-bicarbonate but you can with CaCl2 2H2O. You can easely desolve 5x as much CaCl which gives us 735 gr in 2 liter water. Now you have to dose 125/5 = 25 ml to compensate for the calcium consumption, but you still need to add 125 ml from the alk solution in order to keep up with the the calcification process (2 bicarbonates for each calcium ion)

Thats how easy it is.

But I don't know what's in the FM Balling mixtures. I guess the NaCl free salt is already mixed with balling salts. If it's done in a balanced way it means they mixed 50 gram for each 147 gr CaCl, but like I said before: I dont know what's in the Balling salts.
The calculation above is based on CaCl2 2H2O and NaHCO3 both very pure.

GT_Jacket · 03/21/2011, 10:02 AM

Quote:

I guess the NaCl free salt is already mixed with balling salts.

Can we get confirmation on this? Why do they sell the NaCl free salts if they are not required?

Also - I'm a little confused between the traditional/balanced instructions and the new saturated ones. If you are adding the 3xTrace B elements, it does not seem there ratios have been adjusted accordingly between the 2 sets of instructions.

Old - 750gr CA/10Liter water 50ml trace B Strontium and 50ml Heavy Metal
New - 2Kg CA/5Liter water 25ml trace B Strontium and 25ml Heavy Metal

If the CA is ~5x stronger would you not add 5x trace B's also to the mix?

Thanks,
Brett

C. Schuhmacher · 03/21/2011, 05:18 PM

Hi Brett

We sell also salts for that users which want to work with the classical methode. But i also said that it make no sense to work longer with this methode. In the Balling classic the ratio iof Trace elements are to high. Also we changed over the time the receipts of the elements to make them better and more useable as in teh classical methide

rgds claude

GT_Jacket · 03/21/2011, 08:08 PM

Thanks Claude -

With the 2kg Mg per 5 Ltr and 2kg Ca per 5 Ltr would you on average add about 3x more Ca than Mg? If mixing the Iodine Flour complex with the Mg does this mean you would be adding about 1/3 less of this trace B element vs the Heavy Metal and Strontium.

I have seen where the Iodine Flour complex can be added to the Alk portion, but this would result in 5x more than the others with these concentrations.

Just want to make sure I'm understanding the mix correctly -

Thanks,
Brett

C. Schuhmacher · 03/22/2011, 06:38 PM

HI
Brett
The mix is peefect balanced if you use the balling light methode like the manual said
i make it easy for everyone not need to calculate to much
add the 25 ml Iodine to the alk tank than it is ok

rgds claude

layer3switchguy · 03/28/2011, 12:19 PM

Folks,

I have 2.5L containers for doing balling lite. Should I reduce the amount of salts and trace elements by 50%? The manual is based on using 5L containers...

Please advise.

Thanks!
L3

GT_Jacket · 03/28/2011, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by layer3switchguy

Folks,

I have 2.5L containers for doing balling lite. Should I reduce the amount of salts and trace elements by 50%? The manual is based on using 5L containers...

Please advise.

Thanks!
L3

Yes.

layer3switchguy · 03/28/2011, 12:35 PM

Thanks!

Bricky · 08/05/2011, 11:16 PM

So thanks to Patrick at Reef Wholesale I'm now balling.

Mixed up everything, and my question is this. I added 2.5kg of carbonate to 20 liters of water, but after a week of mixing there is still quite a bit that has not dissolved at the bottom. Is this okay or did I do something incorrectly?

Help in understanding is appreciated.

10/28/2010, 11:47 AM	#31
rick12 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 738	the older container for the CA had instructions for weight of product mixed with 2000ml RO water. well, thats what i have been doing for a long time but i no longer have any of the older containers and the new packaging does not provide this. i dont remember the mix weight. anyone have this info please? also, side note that the new plastic package does not have a weight on the bag. i have to assume it is 1kg??? Last edited by rick12; 10/28/2010 at 11:57 AM.

03/21/2011, 08:08 PM	#45
GT_Jacket Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Murfreesboro, TN Posts: 310	Thanks Claude - With the 2kg Mg per 5 Ltr and 2kg Ca per 5 Ltr would you on average add about 3x more Ca than Mg? If mixing the Iodine Flour complex with the Mg does this mean you would be adding about 1/3 less of this trace B element vs the Heavy Metal and Strontium. I have seen where the Iodine Flour complex can be added to the Alk portion, but this would result in 5x more than the others with these concentrations. Just want to make sure I'm understanding the mix correctly - Thanks, Brett __________________ Brett -

03/28/2011, 12:19 PM	#47
layer3switchguy Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Southern NJ Posts: 958	Folks, I have 2.5L containers for doing balling lite. Should I reduce the amount of salts and trace elements by 50%? The manual is based on using 5L containers... Please advise. Thanks! L3 __________________ 120g Oceanic Tech (48x24x24) 90lbs of Live Rock ATB Small Cone ATI 8 Bulb Powermodule (T5) 2 Vortech MP40W Prodibio Profilux P3ex Controlled Current Tank Info: 120g Oceanic Tech

03/28/2011, 12:35 PM	#49
layer3switchguy Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Southern NJ Posts: 958	Thanks! __________________ 120g Oceanic Tech (48x24x24) 90lbs of Live Rock ATB Small Cone ATI 8 Bulb Powermodule (T5) 2 Vortech MP40W Prodibio Profilux P3ex Controlled Current Tank Info: 120g Oceanic Tech

08/22/2010, 05:42 AM	#26
geomanolo Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: GR Posts: 40	When using this method do we have to use a specific salt? As i understand when adding these salts to the system we add NaCI witch affects the specific gravity... Does this mean for example when adding total 150 ml of solution that this is how match water we have to remove from the system?? Or we simply can get away by using NaCI free salt???

08/22/2010, 03:20 PM	#27
C. Schuhmacher Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Stuttgart Germany Posts: 1,302	Hi No you need only to check your salinty regulary. Balling light is a full system and you did not need any NACL free salt. rgds claude

08/22/2010, 06:47 PM	#28
geomanolo Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: GR Posts: 40	Thanks for the fast reply One final question I am currently doing 10% water change per month. Is it ok if I keep this schedule or I have to do weekly water changes as you suggest in the manual ? ( is it essential for ballin method?)

08/22/2010, 08:51 PM	#29
fishypets Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Austin Texas Posts: 1,445	You will notice a very slight increase with salinity. I get away with a water change every other week. Plus your corals will thank you for the often mineral/element replacment

10/28/2010, 05:41 PM	#32
Luckylouse Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Burlington Posts: 412	Mix 2 KG of CA with 5Liter of Water Mix 2 KG of Mag with 5 Liters of water Mix 500g of Sodium Bi-Carb to 5 Liters of Water Containers come in 1 KG and 4 KG

10/28/2010, 05:48 PM	#33
rick12 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 738	thanks LL. so my 1kg of the CA mixed in 2.5ltrs of RO. i think the mix instructions have changed over time. much stronger mix.

10/28/2010, 06:41 PM	#34
Luckylouse Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Burlington Posts: 412	Ya. Just dose less. I'm dosing via a Profilx dosing unit. I dose about 30 - 35ml of CA in a 150Gal tan. I have about 50+ corals though.

10/28/2010, 06:44 PM	#35
rick12 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 738	here are the old instructions. for CA add 144g of calcium chloridedihydrate to 2000ml of RO water for sodium b. add 163.8g to 2000ml and for mag. it is 199.2g of mag chloride hex along with 25.02g of mg. sulfate heptahydrate took a lot more solution.

10/28/2010, 07:14 PM	#36
Luckylouse Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Burlington Posts: 412	WOW... that quite a difference. Your dosing pumps would run a whole lot longer with those concentrations.

11/13/2010, 07:58 PM	#37
marcin11379 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 84	Hi a use zeovit products and can start balling light ,but I do not know where buy all products. I live in New York.

12/03/2010, 04:15 PM	#38
DML08 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: los banos, ca Posts: 1,034	Claude, is the Trace B Iodine going in the ALK solution now.. I thought I remember A revised recipe, but cant find it now..

12/04/2010, 06:03 PM	#39
C. Schuhmacher Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Stuttgart Germany Posts: 1,302	Hi Yes they do ,,, the manual can be download from www.faunamarin.de New York is greenwhich aquaria as sample or online by cheery corals or odwall aquarium

12/05/2010, 09:07 PM	#40
Tparsons Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 107	Marcin11379 Unique Corals also carries the Fauna Line.

02/18/2011, 08:35 PM	#41
Kahuna Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Armpit O' the Midwest Posts: 219	Hello, Claude: I just purchased a Reefdoser Quadro and a local shop told me about balling, and that I should try that route. I already dose Randy's Recipe 3-part, and would need to change my ingredient mixture to move to your method, which is OK. I'm having some issues: 1. The quantities are in a metric form. I do not weigh my ingredients. Can you or someone else here provide a recipe for alk/mag/calc that uses US volumetric equivalents; i.e. 1 gal RO/DI water to 2 cups of dry X ingredient? I'm sure that others here would appreciate it as well. 2. Can I use the same basic ingredients as I'm currently using in the Randy's Recipe 3-part (minus the Epsom Salts for mg)? It would save a lot of money. I'd still need the Fauna Marin additives. 3. I noted that to raise my calcium in my 115 gal system from 380 to 450 and my alk from 7.0 to 9.5 takes over a gallon each of your mixture in a week's time. That seems incorrect; lethal in the tank. Am I misreading something? Please advise. I admire your product and look forward to using it! Kev

03/21/2011, 05:18 PM	#44
C. Schuhmacher Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Stuttgart Germany Posts: 1,302	Hi Brett We sell also salts for that users which want to work with the classical methode. But i also said that it make no sense to work longer with this methode. In the Balling classic the ratio iof Trace elements are to high. Also we changed over the time the receipts of the elements to make them better and more useable as in teh classical methide rgds claude

03/22/2011, 06:38 PM	#46
C. Schuhmacher Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Stuttgart Germany Posts: 1,302	HI Brett The mix is peefect balanced if you use the balling light methode like the manual said i make it easy for everyone not need to calculate to much add the 25 ml Iodine to the alk tank than it is ok rgds claude

08/05/2011, 11:16 PM	#50
Bricky Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Maple Valley, WA Posts: 586	So thanks to Patrick at Reef Wholesale I'm now balling. Mixed up everything, and my question is this. I added 2.5kg of carbonate to 20 liters of water, but after a week of mixing there is still quite a bit that has not dissolved at the bottom. Is this okay or did I do something incorrectly? Help in understanding is appreciated.