5G buckets as sump?

CoRPS · 10/09/2008, 11:27 AM

When I originally bought my stand I had a FW tank, so I wasn't really worried about a sump.

Now, I used to store my 5g water change buckets in the utility room I have outside but I just noticed that they fit perfectly in my stand.

Would I benefit by having two seperate 5g sumps? Or maybe one 5g sump and one 5g fuge? What do you guys think?

One more thing, How can I do this cheaply? I mean I figure I can buy a couple of cheap powerheads to run the water from the MT to the sumps, but, I want it to be fail proof. If one of the powerheads dies I don't want to come home with a empty DT and a flooded house.

Edit:

Can someone help me out with how the plumbing should look? I haven't ever worked with PVC but I don't think it will be an issue.

Ratpack · 10/09/2008, 12:26 PM

Based on the size tank you have in that picture, I wouldn't attempt it with 5g buckets. And forget the idea of pumping water in both directions, you are asking for trouble trying to get 2 pumps pumping the same amount.

Also, you probably wouldn't add but a couple gallons since you need room in the bucket for drain if power fails.

CoRPS · 10/09/2008, 12:32 PM

Yeah it's a 55gallon. The main reason I'm wanting to do it isn't for the water volume. I'd like to be able to use one of the buckets as a home for the skimmer and heater. The other would be for LR, LS and Chaeto for added filtration and pods.

Edit:

Ratpack · 10/09/2008, 12:43 PM

You can definately do it as your drawing shows, just remember that when the power is cut (power outage, service pumps, etc), water will drain back into the bucket and you have to have the volume to hold it. Forinstance, my 75g has the antisiphon hole just below the surface of the water, but it still allows about an inch of water to drain back when the power to the pump is off. That equates to about 3.74 gallons. Meaning the sump part could only have a maximum of 1.26 gallons at any given time or you end up with a flood on your floor. In your case, you can try to put that hole about 1/2" down below the surface or even above the surface. It just causes a lot of salt spray and clean up.

scuzy · 10/09/2008, 12:52 PM

i would just get a new stand. 55 gallon tank isn't too hard to move.

ravedood · 10/09/2008, 12:56 PM

I think you would need more than 10 gallons for a sump based on you MT picture. But if you wanted to try it with 5 gallon buckets I would put a third bucket in the middle and have all three hooked up in series with two 1 or 2 inch PVC pipes hooked up to each other. Drill the holes on the side towards the bottom. Only the middle bucket will have two holes. The other two buckets will have only one.

Use an overflow kit and have gravity through a siphon take water out of the MT into the left most bucket and have a return pump in the right most bucket.

Or you could probably have water go into both the left and right buckets and have the return pump in the middle. This way you can use one of the outer buckets as a fuge. If you go with the latter, make sure to put a ball valve on the side that goes to the fuge so you can regulate the flow.

ravedood · 10/09/2008, 12:58 PM

Make sure to put a check valve on the return pump hose

CoRPS · 10/09/2008, 12:58 PM

When you say the anti siphon do you mean the PVC/Hose that will be coming from the overflow and into the bucket?

If that's the case then I don't think I'd have a big problem having it sit above the water line.

After some calculations it seems that in a 55g tank if it loses 1" of water, that's a total of 2.66gallons. Split into 10 gallons is 1.33 gallons per bucket. So, technically I could leave 3.67 gallons in each bucket. I mean I know that's not a hell of a lot of water but like I said the main reason is for hiding equipment and extra filtration. Not water volume.

CoRPS · 10/09/2008, 01:00 PM

I don't want to put anything in the middle. The outer cubby holes have doors, the middle is just shelving that is exposed.

CoRPS · 10/09/2008, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by scuzy
i would just get a new stand. 55 gallon tank isn't too hard to move.

I'm on a budget! Not to mention I really can't imagine moving that tank.

ravedood · 10/09/2008, 01:09 PM

Since the middle does not have a door you will be able to see the PVC pipe connecting both buckets. If you want, get a nice piece of wood stain it the same color as the cabinet and make a door for the middle area. You could even put a bigger container from in the middle. They are cheap at Walmart.

CoRPS · 10/09/2008, 01:12 PM

The middle section has a wood backing. You wouldn't see the PVC from the buckets

Edit: I know it's kind of hard to tell by that picture though.

ravedood · 10/09/2008, 01:16 PM

gottcha

hllywd · 10/09/2008, 01:36 PM

With the small volume you'll be able to keep in two buckets it will be difficult to keep up with evaporation unless you incorporate an ATO... For example my 120 depending on the weather needs about 1.5 - 3 gallons of makeup water everyday. I think you'll run your pump dry...

Tim

ravedood · 10/09/2008, 02:02 PM

I have a 55 and I put about a half a gallon everyday and thats with a big fan blowing on the surface of the water to keep it cool from the lights. An ATO can be made for like $25 with a lifter pump, 5 gallon bucket an a float switch.

Ratpack · 10/09/2008, 02:14 PM

When I speak of anti siphon, I am referring to the hose from the pump to the main tank. Once power is cut to the pump it will start to siphon the work back out of the main tank into the bucket where the pump is. Usually you drill a small hole in the section that is in the main tank so that when the siphon starts, it pulls air in and breaks the siphon. Otherwise it would siphon until the end of the hose or pipe is exposed to air. Most people drill a small hole just under the surfaace so that it isn't splashing and their sump will hold the water it will siphon until the hole is exposed. If you keep the end above the water, it will not siphon at all and only drain what is in the hose / pipe. However, with it above water, it will be splashing all the time as the return water hits the surface of the tank water causing salt spray and water everywhere.

CoRPS · 10/09/2008, 02:23 PM

You guys are probably right though. It's probably not worth the risk/hassle. It's just I haven't heard many good things about HOB skimmers, not to mention the micro bubbles. Ugh.

Ratpack · 10/09/2008, 02:33 PM

I have a Octopus BH-300F and couldn't be more happy with it. There is the micro bubble issue, but it is easy to fix. I just haven't done it because I am going to an in sump skimmer.

10/09/2008, 11:27 AM	#1
CoRPS Big Time Reefer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: P-RINE Posts: 2,861	5G buckets as sump? When I originally bought my stand I had a FW tank, so I wasn't really worried about a sump. Now, I used to store my 5g water change buckets in the utility room I have outside but I just noticed that they fit perfectly in my stand. Would I benefit by having two seperate 5g sumps? Or maybe one 5g sump and one 5g fuge? What do you guys think? One more thing, How can I do this cheaply? I mean I figure I can buy a couple of cheap powerheads to run the water from the MT to the sumps, but, I want it to be fail proof. If one of the powerheads dies I don't want to come home with a empty DT and a flooded house. Edit: Can someone help me out with how the plumbing should look? I haven't ever worked with PVC but I don't think it will be an issue.

10/09/2008, 12:56 PM	#6
ravedood Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Pembroke Pines, FL Posts: 1,182	I think you would need more than 10 gallons for a sump based on you MT picture. But if you wanted to try it with 5 gallon buckets I would put a third bucket in the middle and have all three hooked up in series with two 1 or 2 inch PVC pipes hooked up to each other. Drill the holes on the side towards the bottom. Only the middle bucket will have two holes. The other two buckets will have only one. Use an overflow kit and have gravity through a siphon take water out of the MT into the left most bucket and have a return pump in the right most bucket. Or you could probably have water go into both the left and right buckets and have the return pump in the middle. This way you can use one of the outer buckets as a fuge. If you go with the latter, make sure to put a ball valve on the side that goes to the fuge so you can regulate the flow. __________________ Florida Marine Aquarium Society Member --Ben

10/09/2008, 12:58 PM	#7
ravedood Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Pembroke Pines, FL Posts: 1,182	Make sure to put a check valve on the return pump hose __________________ Florida Marine Aquarium Society Member --Ben

10/09/2008, 01:09 PM	#11
ravedood Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Pembroke Pines, FL Posts: 1,182	Since the middle does not have a door you will be able to see the PVC pipe connecting both buckets. If you want, get a nice piece of wood stain it the same color as the cabinet and make a door for the middle area. You could even put a bigger container from in the middle. They are cheap at Walmart. __________________ Florida Marine Aquarium Society Member --Ben

10/09/2008, 01:16 PM	#13
ravedood Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Pembroke Pines, FL Posts: 1,182	gottcha __________________ Florida Marine Aquarium Society Member --Ben

10/09/2008, 12:26 PM	#2
Ratpack Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Lexington, SC Posts: 475	Based on the size tank you have in that picture, I wouldn't attempt it with 5g buckets. And forget the idea of pumping water in both directions, you are asking for trouble trying to get 2 pumps pumping the same amount. Also, you probably wouldn't add but a couple gallons since you need room in the bucket for drain if power fails.

10/09/2008, 12:32 PM	#3
CoRPS Big Time Reefer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: P-RINE Posts: 2,861	Yeah it's a 55gallon. The main reason I'm wanting to do it isn't for the water volume. I'd like to be able to use one of the buckets as a home for the skimmer and heater. The other would be for LR, LS and Chaeto for added filtration and pods. Edit:

10/09/2008, 12:43 PM	#4
Ratpack Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Lexington, SC Posts: 475	You can definately do it as your drawing shows, just remember that when the power is cut (power outage, service pumps, etc), water will drain back into the bucket and you have to have the volume to hold it. Forinstance, my 75g has the antisiphon hole just below the surface of the water, but it still allows about an inch of water to drain back when the power to the pump is off. That equates to about 3.74 gallons. Meaning the sump part could only have a maximum of 1.26 gallons at any given time or you end up with a flood on your floor. In your case, you can try to put that hole about 1/2" down below the surface or even above the surface. It just causes a lot of salt spray and clean up.

10/09/2008, 12:52 PM	#5
scuzy Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,214	i would just get a new stand. 55 gallon tank isn't too hard to move.

10/09/2008, 01:00 PM	#9
CoRPS Big Time Reefer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: P-RINE Posts: 2,861	I don't want to put anything in the middle. The outer cubby holes have doors, the middle is just shelving that is exposed.

10/09/2008, 01:12 PM	#12
CoRPS Big Time Reefer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: P-RINE Posts: 2,861	The middle section has a wood backing. You wouldn't see the PVC from the buckets Edit: I know it's kind of hard to tell by that picture though.

10/09/2008, 01:36 PM	#14
hllywd Premier World Traveler Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Ohio Posts: 4,059	With the small volume you'll be able to keep in two buckets it will be difficult to keep up with evaporation unless you incorporate an ATO... For example my 120 depending on the weather needs about 1.5 - 3 gallons of makeup water everyday. I think you'll run your pump dry... Tim __________________ "Would you rather fight 100 duck sized horses, or 1 horse sized duck?" Current Tank Info: 210 AGA RR, Apex, 96 Cree XR-Es - 50/50 CW & RB @ .6A on ELN 60-48Ds, DIY 6x18 Ca reactor, BM220 CS2 skimmer, Tunze 6100s, 42" ETSS/AE Tech refugium/sump

10/09/2008, 02:02 PM	#15
ravedood Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Pembroke Pines, FL Posts: 1,182	I have a 55 and I put about a half a gallon everyday and thats with a big fan blowing on the surface of the water to keep it cool from the lights. An ATO can be made for like $25 with a lifter pump, 5 gallon bucket an a float switch. __________________ Florida Marine Aquarium Society Member --Ben

10/09/2008, 02:14 PM	#16
Ratpack Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Lexington, SC Posts: 475	When I speak of anti siphon, I am referring to the hose from the pump to the main tank. Once power is cut to the pump it will start to siphon the work back out of the main tank into the bucket where the pump is. Usually you drill a small hole in the section that is in the main tank so that when the siphon starts, it pulls air in and breaks the siphon. Otherwise it would siphon until the end of the hose or pipe is exposed to air. Most people drill a small hole just under the surfaace so that it isn't splashing and their sump will hold the water it will siphon until the hole is exposed. If you keep the end above the water, it will not siphon at all and only drain what is in the hose / pipe. However, with it above water, it will be splashing all the time as the return water hits the surface of the tank water causing salt spray and water everywhere.

10/09/2008, 02:23 PM	#17
CoRPS Big Time Reefer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: P-RINE Posts: 2,861	You guys are probably right though. It's probably not worth the risk/hassle. It's just I haven't heard many good things about HOB skimmers, not to mention the micro bubbles. Ugh.

10/09/2008, 02:33 PM	#18
Ratpack Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Lexington, SC Posts: 475	I have a Octopus BH-300F and couldn't be more happy with it. There is the micro bubble issue, but it is easy to fix. I just haven't done it because I am going to an in sump skimmer.