Dark SPS tissue, STILL!

[snaza]

Hi,

My tank have been running for about 2.5 years. Its now mostly SPS and while some are nice colours I still find it hard to keep lighter colours. some darken up and some still brown out. This is usually caused by high nutrients but my NO3 is undetectable and my P04 is 0.03 on a hanna meter. Both seem pretty low to me. How on earth do people like Iwan get those amazing colours. The other problem im having is the speed at which the green algae film grows on my glass. I need to clean it every 2 days.

Tank is 48x20x20
Sump with DSB / fuge
I run rowaphos and rowacarbon 24/7
Skimmer is a Octopus recerc 800L
Ca - 420
Alk - 8
Mg - 1250
SG 1.026
Lighting is all T5 – Ice cap HO retro 7x 54w- new bulbs

Front

Blue plus
Aqua blue special
Fiji purple
Aqua blue special
Blue plus
Aqua blue special
Blue plus

Ive tried a few Zeo products like. Aminos and coral vitalizer but wandering if should try the 4 basics. I dont want to get a reactor and go full zeo though.

thanks for your help everyone

Aaron

[jc16]

dose zeospur 2 will lighten up your corals a bit, you'll see the change within a day or two if dosed properly! make sure you don't overdose

[SunnyX]

Well, my tank is similar in size and lighting and my corals get very lite in color.

How often are you do water changes?

You could always go the vodka route and start dosing it. I have been dosing it and have had great results. My skimmer is pulling out more gunk then ever, and my tank stays nice and clean. My corals have also taken off in growth.

If you are having to clean your glass every two days then you have a nutrient problem. Vodka and bacteria, like Prodibio Biodigest, may be the help you need.

[snaza]

I only do a 25% water change every month or so. Im getting pretty good growth just not those nice Iwan colours (;

[benihana]

I would increase the frequency of your water changes to 3-4 times per month at 10-15%

[muzz]

Your phosphate results are misleading......as phosphates enter your water, they are being used up immediately by the corals and algae, so when you test, it appears low, but is not truly that low. Corals lighten in color as you starve them of nutrients. That is what zeovit, ultralith, vodke, etc., do to the corals. It starves the zooxanthellate, so the true colors can show, and then you feed the corals just enough minerals, aminos, vitamins, to enhance that color and keep the corals alive and healthy. If you dose too much of any one thing, you will get an algae bloom, or bacterial bloom, or cyano, or whatever depending on what you dosed.

I use the Fauna Marin ultralith system, and have for one year now(actually, January 1st will be exactly one year), and if I dose the proper amounts, I can go 5 to 7 days before having to clean the glass. If I overdose amino acids, then I will get a brownish type of film algae. If I use to much bacteria, or bacterial food, I will get a white film on the glass. Too much organics, and I have to clean the glass of a green film every other day. Too much minerals(min s) and I will get a dynoflagellate bloom.

It has taken a year for me to figure all this out, but now that I have, I can manipulate my system to help bring out certain colors, and see what gets used up faster than other additives. I do not dose recommended amounts, as they are too high for my tank. And everyone's tank is different.

Also, if you use kalkwasser, the kalkwasser will bind phosphates to itself, and then basically settle into your substrate, into your rockwork, or get skimmed out of your tank. I happens through a process called saponification. That process caused me to battle hair algae for 9 months before finally beating it, because of the phosphate depots that were in my rock work. My phosphates always tested 0.03 to 0.05 on a meter, but that result was misleading. So work on lowering your nutrients, make sure anything you feed stays in the water column so it can get eaten or filtered out. Try to have no dead spots in your tank, and definitely check your source water and make sure it is at 0 TDS. That was another problem of mine in the past, I though a TDS of 13 ppm was okay, and it was not. It just fed the algaes, and remember, zooxanthellate is algae, so anyting in your tank that will feed algae will feed the zooxanthellate and cause your sps to brown out or turn drab green. But if they brown out does not mean they are not healthy. I hope that helps out a little, whatever you do, go slowly and do nothing drastic.

[Canarygirl]

Muzz, what correction do you make if you get the green film indicating too high of organics? Feed your fish less, skim more wet, more water changes, all of the above?

[muzz]

I dose ultra organic as part of the ultra lith system, so I would just dose less of the organic or skip it for a day to let it get back into balance.

Anytime I notice any algae, I back off on all dosings, and just make sure that everything is up to par.

Weekly water changes will work wonders, as long as your source water is pure. That is very important. I will feed a little less, but honestly I love feeding my fish, and llike to see them fat and healthy. I use Rods food and pellets daily, and probably feed way more than I should. As far as skimming, I just make sure my skimmer is cleaned on a regular basis, and I dot adjust it much. I guess you could say I skim partially wet. I also check my alkalinity and my pH to make sure there are no swings. I can see a small jump in algal film if my pH drops, and I run it around 7.5to 8.0. I have never really been above 8.0. I also run my alkalinity around 6.5 to 7.0dkh. I run my salinity at 1.026.

One other thing I have done as of about 6 weeks ago, is I slowly have dropped the tank temps, and am now running my tank at 74-76 degrees. My corals look better, colors are sharper, and acans look great. I do not know if it has an effect on algae or not, but I have had to clean the glass less.

I am having a probelm with a frag tank (60g) that is plumbed into my system, and it has dinos and cyano in it. I am trying to figure out why, since I have no cyano or dinos in my display or sump, so I have cut out dosing aminos and organics altogether for now. I do not want to provide food for the algaes, and want to get rid of them. So that could be why I am cleaning my glass less also, I can not say that temperature has anything to do with it. I have been talking with the owner of Fauna Marin to get my tank "dialed in" correctly for a couple months now. And I can say that it is working, but it takes time. Patience is key, because when I say it takes time, I mean weeks to months for results.

[Canarygirl]

Is Ultra Organic the carbon source in Ultralith?

I have algae issues in my frag tank as well (hair algae and bryopsis, no cyano or diatoms), and none in my display. This seems to be a common occurrence and makes me believe it is related to flow. I have a ton of flow in my display and a lot less in the frag tank. How about you?

[muzz]

I believe it also has to do with flow, along with a couple other things.

I raised some saddleback clownfish, and have 7 of the juveniles in the frag tank. I feed them flake and pellet food, but I do not feed flake in my main tank. I wonder if feeding flake has anything to do with it. The other main thing is my frag tank is bare bottom, and my display has an inch or so of sand.

Organic is a coral food, not the carbon source. I was told by Claude(owner of Fauna Marin) to add sand, argonite not live sand, to the frag tank. Only 1 to 2 cm worth. By stopping the organics and aminos, I will be going even lower on nutrients and stave out the algae.

In my display, which is 125g, I have roughly 7000gph turnover, but in my frag tank, only about 800gph. I put a new clean piece of eggcrate in there, and within 5 days it has an lagal film on it. I took phosphate readings with a photometer, and my display reads 0.02 and my frag tank reads 0.10. Now with the hannah photometer, there is a possiblility of error according the instructions of being +/- 0.04. So I do not know if that means my phosphates are at 0.06, or if the lack of flow is causing my frag tank to be higher in phosphates than the rest of my system. I posed that question on another forum, and Steven Pro said that it is highly unlikely that the phosphates would differ, and he thinks that it is the same everywhere, that it is the photometer that is wrong. I do not know, but in my main tank, I have a decent sized clean up crew of hermits and snails, and a yellow and blue(hippo) tang. I have next to no clean up crew in my frag tank and no algae eating fish. So it is probably a combination of things. The one thing I wish I could find out for sure is the difference in water between teh frag tank and the rest of the system. It is definitely interesting.

[Canarygirl]

is your frag tank part of the same system or is it independent of your display?

pellets/flake do add more PO4 than whole natural frozen foods but that would go into your entire system (if connected). And as you probably know, eggcrate leaches PO4 so that's why it's such a great algae grower. I have it growing hair algae in my frag tank, and I don't have any algae eating fish in there either.

So I agree...it is a combination of factors, reduced flow being one, and lack of herbivores being another. I've heard that acrylic "eggcrate" is available that will not leach PO4 but I don't know where to get it.

[muzz]

My whole system is plumbed together, between the first floor of my house and the basement. So it is all one system. I am going to be adding aragonite sand to my frag tnak and see if that helps. It should...... The acrylic eggcrate is expensive, if you order it, you have to order a full case.

[Ty1e]

snaza, i've been running Zeovit for 2 years now and with great results but as with most ULN tanks the slower you can dose that better. the same is true for tanks not on ULN systems, steady water quality(not allowing the KH to go to high or drop to low.
I have the same problems, i can't get the colors that all the zeo guys are getting, but i've come to learn that i tend to over dose and mess with things to much(light hight, more Cal less Cal, more of this less of that). every change you make to the tank takes 2-3 days to see the results.
Maybe consider doseing vodka like sunny mentioned, check his tank out and reason for your self.

[Akrite]

How do you dose vodka? Do you add it directly to the tank?

[Ricunger]

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...nftt/index.php

[Shadowramy]

I remember and old article by Dana Riddle that talked about browning of colors. It stated if N and P are in check then the browing is basically one of three possibilities, light, flow or alk.

He did test using a nana to define the levels.

Lighting is fine but you said they are all new bulbs, did you just replace them, did you used to run MH, did you add any bulbs or different types?

Alk - What alk test are you using get an 8 dKH?

Flow - How is your flow? Too much, too little?

[snaza]

Thanks for all your imput.

Always been running T5's. I only replace 3 at a time. always run the same bulbs though

using AP alk kit. maybe i should try another one.

Flow is pretty good i think. i have 1 x tunze 6100 and 3 x K4's. all pretty random.

Not all SPS are dark and boring, i actually have some really nice ones, Its just there were lighter and more colour intense when i got them. I'd really LOVE to get some light colours like you see in tanks like IWAN's. How the hell does he get them that nice. He really is the master.

thank again

[Canarygirl]

Iwan uses ZeoSpur2 every 2 weeks, which throws off some zoox from the coral tissue helping to lighten/brighten the colors. It makes his orange monti digitatas look pink, for example.

[snaza]

The only reason i dont want to get into zeo or vodka is im often away for a few days at a time for work. I like the prodibio carbon source as its is only dosed every 2 weeks. We can:t get prodibio in austrlia though. I ordered some but Aust customs destroyed it.

is there anything i could try that only has to be done every few days or weekly?

[Canarygirl]

you can keep doing Prodibio, or you could set yourself up with a daily carbon dosing system on an auto-doser. You can use some lightening supps from zeovit that are not needed to be dosed daily (including Zeospur2 and B-Balance).

And you can keep your fish load minimal so you don't need to feed as much.

[toothman]

Do you use zeo spur 2, it really lightens up corals

[snaza]

No i haven:t tried it. I read it is very easy to overdose and not good to use on a tank that isnt full Zeovit

[Shadowramy]

Some people have good luck with the API alk kit, I dont. I used API for a long time then got a Elos. API read 7 dkH Elos said I was at 5dkH.

Might want to get another alk kit to compare.

I quit using Spur2 since Xtra seem to have about the same effect but less dramatic .... my orange monti and digi's also turned pink, my purples went to cream.