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Old 01/14/2009, 07:38 PM   #76
BeanAnimal
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Quote:
Originally posted by zachtos
I haven't heard back yet for a design suggestion, but I have a few more questions to tack on. Must each pipe have it's OWN pipe leading to the sump? Or can they all be connected together before they proceed to the basement sump?
For my setup, they need to be individual standpipes. Combining them will not work.

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I'm considering doing this setup in my display which has 4 x 2" standpipes, but only 1000gph turnover. I think I could use 3 of the four and let the fourth be capped off or unused? Does this sound right or is there another use for it? They are in seperate compartments so I think I would keep the overflow emergency pipes in one compartment, and the durso and siphon in the other? Or should I put the siphon and a emergency in one, and the durso and emergency in the other?
If you put the "emergency" pipes in one compartment, the water will simply flood that compartment. You will in effect have only (1) overflow box.


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Old 01/14/2009, 07:41 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally posted by MSU Fan
i think that you're fine to combine the pipes into a single pipe AS LONG as the pipe's flow capability exceeds all three pipes combined.

In theory that means that 3 1" pipes can flow into a single 2" pipe and it would handle the flow.

Well kinda, but not really. The open channel silence depends on water cascading down the standpipe, not mixing with air. The siphon depends on the absence of air. All three pipes can dump into 1 larger pipe, but it has to be large enough to NOT interact with the function of the other pipes. Keeping it silent is also going to be a problem.


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Old 01/14/2009, 11:53 PM   #78
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hey guys, i am in the process of setting up a 50g aga tank(36x18x18), i want a silent setup, since it will be in my bedroom, so i needed some opinions on what to do..i thought of an external durso, with the 90, but i am not sure if the setup is supposed to be like this? So the strainer will be measured to water level?i know that i won't be getting much surface skimming either so any opinions? Thanks



in the pic oviously, the strainer will be at water level..



Last edited by Misled; 10/30/2017 at 07:50 PM.
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Old 01/15/2009, 06:17 AM   #79
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Anin,

This thread is about the construction of a (3) standpipe overflow that is virtualy silent and has many fail-safe features. The standpipe design is most commonly used with a "calfo" or "coast-to-coast" style oveflow box. It will work with a 55G tank, but will take up a fair amount of realestate. You may also want to note that many 55g tanks are tempered all the way around (can not be drilled).

Durso or similar standpipes can be quiet, depending on the configuration and flow they need to process. They many times need frequent adjustment.

Any standpipe system usedwithout an oveflow box will be very poor at surface skimming.

It would be best if you started a "help with my overflow" type of thread. You will get plenty of responses and opinions to help you move forward with your setup. If you want to attempt to use this setup than stick around and ask questions


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Old 01/15/2009, 07:02 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally posted by oldsaltman
Bean, I am having trouble getting my overflows to restart normally. My system appears to be the same as your design. It runs great, but upon restarting it continues to cycle or purge itself until I open the siphon valve back to fully open. Then the system will regulate itself and I can close it back off some. Nothing else seams to work. I have three compartments in my sump and one drain line runs into each one. I cut the return PVC to about 1” above the normal water level and then went back and drilled some holes to help the air escape the returns. Am I missing something? What can I try?
Bean, can you give me any advise here?


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Old 01/15/2009, 07:42 AM   #81
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Is enough air getting into the open channel, or is it acting as siphon as well?

What happens when you swap the roles of the siphon and open channel? Do the startup problems persist?

You drilled holes above the waterline on the siphon standpipe correct?

It sounds like the open channel is running at a partial siphon and refusing to give up its flow before the siphon standpipe is able to purge the air. Are you sure the siphon standpipe is air tight? Are any bubbles ejected from it during "regulated" operation?


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Old 01/15/2009, 07:54 AM   #82
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Is enough air getting into the open channel, or is it acting as siphon as well?

Yes, I have even taken the cap off it and it makes no diffrence.

What happens when you swap the roles of the siphon and open channel? Do the startup problems persist?

Yes, doesn't change anything.

You drilled holes above the waterline on the siphon standpipe correct?

Yes, I even tried moving the drain pipes up above the sump water level to see what happened and it didn't help

It sounds like the open channel is running at a partial siphon and refusing to give up its flow before the siphon standpipe is able to purge the air. Are you sure the siphon standpipe is air tight? Are any bubbles ejected from it during "regulated" operation?

It has to be air tight I don't see any way air could enter it, and I see no bubbles during it's normal opperation. I THINK THIS IS THE PROBLEM I JUST CAN'T FIND THE CURE.


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Old 01/15/2009, 07:54 AM   #83
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Is enough air getting into the open channel, or is it acting as siphon as well?

Yes, I have even taken the cap off it and it makes no diffrence.

What happens when you swap the roles of the siphon and open channel? Do the startup problems persist?

Yes, doesn't change anything.

You drilled holes above the waterline on the siphon standpipe correct?

Yes, I even tried moving the drain pipes up above the sump water level to see what happened and it didn't help

It sounds like the open channel is running at a partial siphon and refusing to give up its flow before the siphon standpipe is able to purge the air. Are you sure the siphon standpipe is air tight? Are any bubbles ejected from it during "regulated" operation?

It has to be air tight I don't see any way air could enter it, and I see no bubbles during it's normal opperation. I THINK THIS IS THE PROBLEM I JUST CAN'T FIND THE CURE.


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Old 01/15/2009, 08:05 AM   #84
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Sorry about the double post.


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Old 01/15/2009, 08:16 AM   #85
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oh ok thanks bean, the tank is 50, which isn't tempered, i called aga to confirm, your design although looks and performs awesome...


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Old 01/16/2009, 12:07 AM   #86
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hey mflamb, how is your setup running? is it silent?

Bean how bout if i did a overflow box like that of mflamb? that box size is good..better than a standard durso standpipe, where the overflow box would run from top to bottom of tank..


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Old 01/16/2009, 09:11 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally posted by BeanAnimal
[B]For my setup, they need to be individual standpipes. Combining them will not work.

If you put the "emergency" pipes in one compartment, the water will simply flood that compartment. You will in effect have only (1) overflow box.
Well, I'll wipe this off the project list and keep in mind for the next setup down the road. I would be interested in seeing the results if someone tried combined pipes though. Thanks.


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Old 01/16/2009, 09:30 AM   #88
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The results are fairly predictable. The open channel depends on the free fall (open channel flow) of water. The siphon rate depends on the amount of "air-free" drop that the fluid undegoes. The shorter the siphon standpipe, the lower the siphon rate. So if you plumb the siphon and open channel together, you lose the siphon and the open channel and simply create a partial siphon in both pipes. Noisy and not anywhere near optimal flow for silence. You also lose the fail-safe features. I.E. you are back to regular Dursos.


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Old 01/16/2009, 10:43 AM   #89
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Bean, I hope I have solved my restarting problem, but I am not sure what did it? I lowered the full siphen about another inch ito the sump. I raised the small tube on top of the overflow cap to where it does not come into play unless the water level gets real high. I lowered the emergency bulkhead to where it works does come into play when the system first starts up. I have cycled it 8 or 10 times this morning and it started each time.
Do you turn yours off at feeding time? That is a lot of water dumping back into the sump each time.
My sump has three compartments fuge, skimmer and pump.
Where would you place each drain line?
Less flow in sump and more in skimmer?


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Old 01/16/2009, 11:06 AM   #90
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Yes, the return pump is shut down for feeding twice a day and the restarts itself ~20 minutes later.

http://www.beananimal.com/projects/5...ing-timer.aspx

Where should the discharge go? That is kind of up to you. The skimmer should not be fed more water than it is designed to handle. On the other hand a high flow sump is not really ideal with regard to processing all of the water through the skimmer. I am also a proponent of high flow refugia and do not see any advantage in low flow refugia.


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Old 01/16/2009, 06:22 PM   #91
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Ooops.


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Old 01/17/2009, 07:27 AM   #92
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Bean
I have a couple of basic questions so I can finish my plumbing design. I will have a 60" long tank with a 48" long x 12" high x 6" deep external overflow. I intend to have three 1-1/2" BeanAnimal standpipes exiting through the bottom of the overflow (so I can position my tank as close to the wall as possible). My tank is upstairs and the sump is in the basement equipment room so I have only a single 1-1/2" drain pipe.
Questions:[list=1][*]Will plumbing the three standpipes into a single 1-1/2" drain line defeat the purpose of your design?[*]Does it matter what order the standpipes are in relation to the direction of flow in the single 1-1/2" drain line (I need to have the valved standpipe first with the other two downstream)?[/list=1] Thanks


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Old 01/17/2009, 08:37 AM   #93
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Question for All -- why are you so determined to integrate all the pipes before entering the sump? It compromises the 'system' ( obviously) but both adds cost and delivers little space saving ??


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Old 01/17/2009, 09:00 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally posted by EnglishRebel
Bean
I have a couple of basic questions so I can finish my plumbing design. I will have a 60" long tank with a 48" long x 12" high x 6" deep external overflow. I intend to have three 1-1/2" BeanAnimal standpipes exiting through the bottom of the overflow (so I can position my tank as close to the wall as possible). My tank is upstairs and the sump is in the basement equipment room so I have only a single 1-1/2" drain pipe.
Questions:[list=1][*]Will plumbing the three standpipes into a single 1-1/2" drain line defeat the purpose of your design?[*]Does it matter what order the standpipes are in relation to the direction of flow in the single 1-1/2" drain line (I need to have the valved standpipe first with the other two downstream)?[/list=1] Thanks
There are too many variables to predict exactly how the system will perform. As I mentioned above, it will likely not perform as expected. The single 1.5" pipe will cause the open channel and siphon standpipes to interact in an inwanted way. Many of the fail-safe features of the overflwo will be rendered useless.


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Old 01/17/2009, 01:41 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally posted by eme
Question for All -- why are you so determined to integrate all the pipes before entering the sump? It compromises the 'system' ( obviously) but both adds cost and delivers little space saving ??
Because I don't want to punch more holes in my living room floor.


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Old 01/17/2009, 01:49 PM   #96
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Just make the one hole bigger? -


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Old 01/18/2009, 12:35 AM   #97
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Bean, would having a smaller overflow box like the one mflamb made compared to calfo or coast to coast style make any difference in this type of setup? Also would it matter how strong the return pump is with this type of overflow?


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Old 01/18/2009, 04:19 AM   #98
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Anin,

Most of your questions have been covered several times over the course of this thread. I know it is a long read, but it may help give you a better idea of the "how and why".

The standpipe setup has little to do with the overflow box itself. So yes, you can use an overflow box with less linear surface area. You lose a significant amount of surface skimming ability, increase noise due to the thicker sheet of water entering the box, etc... See any of the calfo overflow threads for more of an in depth discussion.

The standpipe setup will work, or can be adapted to, any size return pump. As described here, the setup will easily handle up to ~2000 GPH silently, with the bulk of the flow going through the single siphon standpipe.

Spend some time reading the thread and the article on my website, it is worth the time if you are insterested in using this setup.


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Old 01/18/2009, 07:25 AM   #99
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zachtos assuming your close to a wall you could put the down pipes in the wall between studs. Requires quite a desire and work but at least then the holes won't be in the living room floor, a real advantage in case you ditch the reef tank.


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Old 01/18/2009, 08:21 AM   #100
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That is the only way I would do it


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