Silent and Failsafe Overflow System - Page 89

TheFishMan65 · 07/14/2010, 10:25 AM

I think that rings a bell.

reefermad619 · 07/14/2010, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poppafish29

How much higher is everyone drilling the open channel? 1/4" OK?

This is how I have mine. My open channel is 1/4" above the siphon. I also have the siphon as the middle tube/pipe in my set-up. It's not needed, but I just liked it better that way.

poppafish29 · 07/14/2010, 11:08 AM

Cool!!
I'll be drilling this weekend.

larryfl1 · 07/15/2010, 12:50 PM

i put this on another thread so sorry for duplicating....

hi all,

8 ft tank will have dart pump pumping around 3000 gal

i am thinking of doing the 3 lines in 1.5" to properly handle the flow...

what size do i need the box to properly accommodate the fittings and also to provide an extremely quiet flow into the box...

the box will be an in tank box plumbed out the back wall ..

also what is the space required behind the tank to properly plump the bulkeheads?

the other questions is what parts do i need if i am upsizing the photo shows 1 inch bulkheads, i will go 1.5.. do i just up everything the delta and the outside stuff is 2"

mprygh · 07/15/2010, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larryfl1

i put this on another thread so sorry for duplicating....

hi all,

8 ft tank will have dart pump pumping around 3000 gal

i am thinking of doing the 3 lines in 1.5" to properly handle the flow...

what size do i need the box to properly accommodate the fittings and also to provide an extremely quiet flow into the box...

the box will be an in tank box plumbed out the back wall ..

also what is the space required behind the tank to properly plump the bulkeheads?

the other questions is what parts do i need if i am upsizing the photo shows 1 inch bulkheads, i will go 1.5.. do i just up everything the delta and the outside stuff is 2"

I am planning something very similar, but have not finished my research.
Some data points:
1) It seems that 1000 GPH is almost, but not quite, full-siphon in 1.25" pipe.
(That was with a short 6" drop, and two 90-deg bends).
2) Couplings have smaller ID than pipe, and really mess things up.
So upsize those.
3) If your pipe is large and siphon velocity low, air gets caught in pipe,
and can keep the full siphon from ever starting.
Hope that helps.

teesquare · 07/15/2010, 02:15 PM

And - if you got to the very first 5 pages of this L-O-N-G thread

you will the answer to 90% of the questions that everyones asks. And - I mean before the thread split. The very first 5 pages.

I am in no way trying to be rude, I am trying to save you a lot of time.

Bean did a great job of putting pictures and words together in such
a way as to make this method practical for everyone (unless you do not have a sump below the tank

)

T

chimmike · 07/15/2010, 02:36 PM

Bean, as others noted, they drilled the hole to place the open drain higher than the siphon. I saw that your three holes were level. Have you noticed any problems with this?

I'll be running 1.5" piping for these with the 1" bulkhead, an in-tank overflow, so I'm not too fond of possibly drilling the open drain hole higher than the other two. I'll be using a plywood "template" for the hole drilling.

scott26 · 07/15/2010, 03:14 PM

The only reason bean ran them all level is because that was a concept design he also has all his pipes able to function as open channels they can all be level and it will still operate perfectly it just may take longer for the siphon to get the air out of the system so if you raise the open up some it makes more water go into the siphon first therefore making it establish sooner.

I did the same thing as you pipe sizing wise and bulkhead size if you cruise over to my build you can see. I brought mine up by 1/4" it really is not that noticable.

coralcruze · 07/15/2010, 11:52 PM

bean,
just wanted to let you know that all I did was dremel another slit 1/8" lower on the full siphon line and not the full siphon has the time needed in a power outage to restart... it works every time as designed.

This drain system is probably the best one that exists out there. i continue to be amazed just how accurate and consistant it is. It keeps the water line in the trays right where it is adjusted to and can be fine tuned at any point. Love it! thanks again.

coralcruze · 07/16/2010, 12:03 AM

I do have to add one interesting fact about my system...

since i only have about 350 GPh overflowing over each wall when I simulate a cloged full siphon line the secondary never kicks into full siphon. I drilled my hole through the side wall of the pipe on my secondary so i don't have a loop. therefor in order for the secondaryt line to turn into a full siphon i must have enough water volume where the water level goes above the side hole, again since in my case I don't have the water volume it makes that gurgling noise...

I actually like this feature (happy accident

) its like having a natural alarm that tells you something clogged the first line... FIX IT! otherwise, it may take some time to realize that you developed a clogg if the secondary is as quiet as the primary full siphon.

I think its important to realize though that if you have larger water volume to handle that can only be safely handled via a full siphon this meathod would NOT work. so kids don't try this at home

uncleof6 · 07/16/2010, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chimmike

Bean, as others noted, they drilled the hole to place the open drain higher than the siphon. I saw that your three holes were level. Have you noticed any problems with this?

I'll be running 1.5" piping for these with the 1" bulkhead, an in-tank overflow, so I'm not too fond of possibly drilling the open drain hole higher than the other two. I'll be using a plywood "template" for the hole drilling.

Mine are all at the same level, and have no apparent problems. (all encompasses more than a couple systems.) It appears, bean did not have issues, with the original design, all being on the same level, either.

No two systems are ever quite the same, and though I have some ideas, I don't really want to speculate on why some systems have problems and others do not....

Jim

basdrm · 07/16/2010, 12:30 PM

I understand that Bean has tested this system using 1" standpipes. Obviously, the 1.5" would be optimal, but would 1" be sufficient for a 40g? Return pump will be an Eheim 1262 with about 3-4ft head.

chimmike · 07/16/2010, 01:02 PM

I think my only concern is with the actual drain to the sump through the siphon. I don't want it to be loud, but I don't want to submerge it and cause it to take a long time to re-create the siphon in a loss of power situation. So I'm thinking of drilling a hole in the siphon drain just above the water line in the sump...............but I'm not sure yet. Maybe I'll enclose the drain with a larger pipe, submerge that pipe, and drill a hole in that above the water line.

chimmike · 07/16/2010, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by basdrm

I understand that Bean has tested this system using 1" standpipes. Obviously, the 1.5" would be optimal, but would 1" be sufficient for a 40g? Return pump will be an Eheim 1262 with about 3-4ft head.

definitely plenty.

BeanAnimal · 07/16/2010, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coralcruze

I do have to add one interesting fact about my system...

since i only have about 350 GPh overflowing over each wall when I simulate a cloged full siphon line the secondary never kicks into full siphon.
I actually like this feature (happy accident

) its like having a natural alarm that tells you something clogged the first line... FIX IT! otherwise, it may take some time to realize that you developed a clogg if the secondary is as quiet as the primary full siphon.

If the secondary kicks into fail-safe mode as a full siphon, it will flush the overflow box and then usually begin to gurgle as the siphon rate is MUCH higher than the return pump.... so it will be very noisy

coralcruze · 07/18/2010, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeanAnimal

If the secondary kicks into fail-safe mode as a full siphon, it will flush the overflow box and then usually begin to gurgle as the siphon rate is MUCH higher than the return pump.... so it will be very noisy

so what you are saying is that this wasnt an accident... This is actually the way the secondary was designed in the first place? basically its designed to gurgle... how cool is that?

in my case since there is such little water going over the wall and into the tray the secondary only full siphons for mear seconds in a simulated clogg situation than starts its nasty loud gurgle alarm to warn you of a clogged primary.

Hey, I think you should mention this feature on your web... unless its already in there. This feature makes it a no brainer. everyone should implement this system into thier tank, i just don't see why anyone wouldn't.

hamiltonguy · 07/20/2010, 10:06 AM

With this system, what size return pump would be best on a 75g tank? Also, is it ok to make the overflow box out of acrylic for a glass tank?

poppafish29 · 07/20/2010, 10:55 AM

I have a 75g and am doing a BeanAnimal overflow. I plan on using an Eheim 1260 as the return. I'll be using 1" bulkheads with 1.5" pipes on the drain.

uncleof6 · 07/20/2010, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poppafish29

I have a 75g and am doing a BeanAnimal overflow. I plan on using an Eheim 1260 as the return. I'll be using 1" bulkheads with 1.5" pipes on the drain.

You should not have any issues with that combination.

Jim

hamiltonguy · 07/20/2010, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poppafish29

I have a 75g and am doing a BeanAnimal overflow. I plan on using an Eheim 1260 as the return. I'll be using 1" bulkheads with 1.5" pipes on the drain.

Ah ok that definitely helps.

Another quick question though, would a Mag 7 pump with 1" PVC drains work just as well?

scott26 · 07/20/2010, 12:35 PM

I have been trying to find the best way to set up my sump with this sytem.

From what I have been told it is best to feed the fuge from the drain so that it can get the most nutriant rich water... I was planning on feeding my fuge from my return but after the skimmer has got ahold of the water and then goes to the return section then gets pumped into the fuge would it take out to much of the good water?

Is there a recomended way to feed the fuge with any of these drains?

Should I just keep the fuge feed off the return?

poppafish29 · 07/20/2010, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hamiltonguy

Ah ok that definitely helps.

Another quick question though, would a Mag 7 pump with 1" PVC drains work just as well?

A Mag 7 will work just fine. I just like Eheim's better.

hamiltonguy · 07/20/2010, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poppafish29

A Mag 7 will work just fine. I just like Eheim's better.

So I ran a head loss calculator and found that at about 4 feet (height of tank + stand) the pump would push about ~400-420 gph. From what I've read, shouldn't I have a higher rate or am I just overthinking?

chimmike · 07/20/2010, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hamiltonguy

So I ran a head loss calculator and found that at about 4 feet (height of tank + stand) the pump would push about ~400-420 gph. From what I've read, shouldn't I have a higher rate or am I just overthinking?

More turnover through the sump generally means less junk will settle in the sump but rather stay suspended in the tank.

If you can go for more flow, give it a shot. Remember, every elbow you use, as well as tees, decrease flow.

hamiltonguy · 07/20/2010, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chimmike

More turnover through the sump generally means less junk will settle in the sump but rather stay suspended in the tank.

If you can go for more flow, give it a shot. Remember, every elbow you use, as well as tees, decrease flow.

Yeah I included the elbows in it (3). I guess I'll go with a Mag 9.5 just to be safe.

Last question (I promise), would it make a big difference if I use 1" PVC for the drain instead of 1.5"?

07/15/2010, 02:15 PM	#2206
teesquare Coral Curmudgeon Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: western NC Posts: 1,687	And - if you got to the very first 5 pages of this L-O-N-G thread you will the answer to 90% of the questions that everyones asks. And - I mean before the thread split. The very first 5 pages. I am in no way trying to be rude, I am trying to save you a lot of time. Bean did a great job of putting pictures and words together in such a way as to make this method practical for everyone (unless you do not have a sump below the tank) T __________________ No....really honey, it was a gift! Current Tank Info: 700 gallon combined reef/frag systems - 650gal Cichlid system

07/15/2010, 02:36 PM	#2207
chimmike oxygen abuser Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Parrish, FL Posts: 4,518 Blog Entries: 2	Bean, as others noted, they drilled the hole to place the open drain higher than the siphon. I saw that your three holes were level. Have you noticed any problems with this? I'll be running 1.5" piping for these with the 1" bulkhead, an in-tank overflow, so I'm not too fond of possibly drilling the open drain hole higher than the other two. I'll be using a plywood "template" for the hole drilling. __________________ -Mike 100g cube (glasscages) ATI Sunpower 8x39w. 75g sump/fuge Geaux Noles!

07/16/2010, 01:02 PM	#2213
chimmike oxygen abuser Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Parrish, FL Posts: 4,518 Blog Entries: 2	I think my only concern is with the actual drain to the sump through the siphon. I don't want it to be loud, but I don't want to submerge it and cause it to take a long time to re-create the siphon in a loss of power situation. So I'm thinking of drilling a hole in the siphon drain just above the water line in the sump...............but I'm not sure yet. Maybe I'll enclose the drain with a larger pipe, submerge that pipe, and drill a hole in that above the water line. __________________ -Mike 100g cube (glasscages) ATI Sunpower 8x39w. 75g sump/fuge Geaux Noles!

07/20/2010, 10:06 AM	#2217
hamiltonguy Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Hamilton, Ontario Posts: 910	With this system, what size return pump would be best on a 75g tank? Also, is it ok to make the overflow box out of acrylic for a glass tank? __________________ Knowledge, the only thing that's cheap in this hobby. Current Tank Info: 75G, RO NW-150 Skimmer, MP40W, MP20, 48" 4x54W TEK light, Mag 9.5, TLF 150 Bio Pellet Reactor, JBJ ATO

07/14/2010, 10:25 AM	#2201
TheFishMan65 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,621	I think that rings a bell.

07/14/2010, 11:08 AM	#2203
poppafish29 Moved On Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Palm Harbor, Fl Posts: 146	Cool!! I'll be drilling this weekend.

07/15/2010, 12:50 PM	#2204
larryfl1 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,051	i put this on another thread so sorry for duplicating.... hi all, 8 ft tank will have dart pump pumping around 3000 gal i am thinking of doing the 3 lines in 1.5" to properly handle the flow... what size do i need the box to properly accommodate the fittings and also to provide an extremely quiet flow into the box... the box will be an in tank box plumbed out the back wall .. also what is the space required behind the tank to properly plump the bulkeheads? the other questions is what parts do i need if i am upsizing the photo shows 1 inch bulkheads, i will go 1.5.. do i just up everything the delta and the outside stuff is 2"

07/15/2010, 03:14 PM	#2208
scott26 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Nipomo,CA Posts: 615	The only reason bean ran them all level is because that was a concept design he also has all his pipes able to function as open channels they can all be level and it will still operate perfectly it just may take longer for the siphon to get the air out of the system so if you raise the open up some it makes more water go into the siphon first therefore making it establish sooner. I did the same thing as you pipe sizing wise and bulkhead size if you cruise over to my build you can see. I brought mine up by 1/4" it really is not that noticable.

07/15/2010, 11:52 PM	#2209
coralcruze Moved On Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 511	bean, just wanted to let you know that all I did was dremel another slit 1/8" lower on the full siphon line and not the full siphon has the time needed in a power outage to restart... it works every time as designed. This drain system is probably the best one that exists out there. i continue to be amazed just how accurate and consistant it is. It keeps the water line in the trays right where it is adjusted to and can be fine tuned at any point. Love it! thanks again.

07/16/2010, 12:03 AM	#2210
coralcruze Moved On Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 511	I do have to add one interesting fact about my system... since i only have about 350 GPh overflowing over each wall when I simulate a cloged full siphon line the secondary never kicks into full siphon. I drilled my hole through the side wall of the pipe on my secondary so i don't have a loop. therefor in order for the secondaryt line to turn into a full siphon i must have enough water volume where the water level goes above the side hole, again since in my case I don't have the water volume it makes that gurgling noise... I actually like this feature (happy accident ) its like having a natural alarm that tells you something clogged the first line... FIX IT! otherwise, it may take some time to realize that you developed a clogg if the secondary is as quiet as the primary full siphon. I think its important to realize though that if you have larger water volume to handle that can only be safely handled via a full siphon this meathod would NOT work. so kids don't try this at home

07/16/2010, 12:30 PM	#2212
basdrm Registered Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1	I understand that Bean has tested this system using 1" standpipes. Obviously, the 1.5" would be optimal, but would 1" be sufficient for a 40g? Return pump will be an Eheim 1262 with about 3-4ft head.

07/20/2010, 10:55 AM	#2218
poppafish29 Moved On Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Palm Harbor, Fl Posts: 146	I have a 75g and am doing a BeanAnimal overflow. I plan on using an Eheim 1260 as the return. I'll be using 1" bulkheads with 1.5" pipes on the drain.

07/20/2010, 12:35 PM	#2221
scott26 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Nipomo,CA Posts: 615	I have been trying to find the best way to set up my sump with this sytem. From what I have been told it is best to feed the fuge from the drain so that it can get the most nutriant rich water... I was planning on feeding my fuge from my return but after the skimmer has got ahold of the water and then goes to the return section then gets pumped into the fuge would it take out to much of the good water? Is there a recomended way to feed the fuge with any of these drains? Should I just keep the fuge feed off the return?