mrs. Wages how much

ethank77 · 01/11/2009, 05:57 PM

How much mrs Wages do I disolve in 1 gal rodi.

reefnetworth · 01/11/2009, 06:49 PM

one tablespoon per gallon will give you appx. 14.0 Alk.

reefnetworth · 01/11/2009, 06:52 PM

give a man a fish, feed him for a day, teach a man to fish he will sit in the boat and drink beer all day.

i dont drink beer, but i love to eat Salmon, the other pink meat!

Logzor · 01/11/2009, 06:55 PM

If you are trying to create a limewater that is not fully saturated ignored below:

I used to be careful and drop in the exact amount but now I just dump like half the container in my topoff container because the water can only be saturated so much.

HighlandReefer · 01/12/2009, 03:45 AM

Usually it is recommended that you start with 1 teaspoon of kalk per gallon of rodi for adding to your top-off. Kalk is saturated at around 2 teaspoons per gallon of rodi.

What Your Grandmother Never Told You About Lime
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.htm

Randy Holmes-Farley · 01/12/2009, 06:18 AM

one tablespoon per gallon will give you limewater. 14.0 Alk.

What does that mean? 14 in what units? In the limewater or the aquarium?

MrRyanT · 01/12/2009, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HighlandReefer
Usually it is recommended that you start with 1 teaspoon of kalk per gallon of rodi for adding to your top-off. Kalk is saturated at around 2 teaspoons per gallon of rodi.

What Your Grandmother Never Told You About Lime
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.htm

Ok, I know its in one of those articles somewhere but for some reason I can't find it. I thought the saturation point was at 2 tablespoons not teaspoons. Can someone please verify? Thanks.

bertoni · 01/12/2009, 10:54 PM

The saturation limit is 2 tsp per gallon. That can be increased by adding vinegar to the mix.

MrRyanT · 01/13/2009, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bertoni
The saturation limit is 2 tsp per gallon. That can be increased by adding vinegar to the mix.

Thank you.

Logzor · 01/13/2009, 04:49 PM

If you have a large reservoir you can just dump a bunch in there and just add water when you need to. Eventually you will get this lazy!

ricwilli · 01/14/2009, 06:13 AM

How do you know when to dump more in the reservoir? Meaning, would I have to test the reservoir water often to see when it starts getting below 14 dkh?

Logzor · 01/14/2009, 06:40 AM

I have no idea I just dump in a bunch every once in while. Thats a good question though.

I suppose if I notice my alk dipping I know it is not saturated. Considering how much I dump I I doubt I will ever have this problem. Mrs. Wages is cheap.

Randy Holmes-Farley · 01/14/2009, 06:40 AM

Forget the 14 comment. I asked what he meant to give him a chance the clarify it, but it is incorrect in any normal usage of the words.

Most people add more solid lime each time they make new limewater, but if you have a lot of solids on the bottom, and want to try to reuse them, it is easy to monitor potency by conductivity.

This has a ton more info on limewater and its use:

What Your Grandmother Never Told You About Lime
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.htm

Logzor · 01/14/2009, 06:52 AM

How do I measure conductivity? One finger in the socket and the other in the limewater reservoir?

Randy Holmes-Farley · 01/14/2009, 07:06 AM

A conductivity meter that can measure about 10 mS/cm will work, like the Pinpoint Salinity meter. You can also try to measure the calcium or alkalinity when the solution is clear and settled (saturated is about 80 ppm calcium or 40 meq/l (112 dKH) for alkalinity). pH can be used crudely.

ricwilli · 01/14/2009, 08:05 AM

Randy, can you tell me how I can use my Pinpoint Salinity meter to measure the conductivity? What should I be looking for?

Randy Holmes-Farley · 01/14/2009, 08:08 AM

Saturation is about 10.3 mS/cm, and potency is about linear with conductivity, so 5 mS/cm is about half saturated.

I show its use here:

The Degradation of Limewater in Air
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...ture/index.php

from it:

Figure 1. The conductivity of limewater as a function of the time after the addition of
calcium oxide at 21 Â°C.

OwenInAZ · 02/15/2009, 08:55 PM

Hey Randy, I think you need to increase the lower scale on your x axis

Also, if you add vineagar to your water to increase the saturation point, aren't you just back at square one?

Icefire · 02/15/2009, 09:49 PM

Randy isn't a 1:20 ratio between Alk and Ca ?

like 40 MeQ/L and 800ppm Ca ?

Randy Holmes-Farley · 02/16/2009, 07:23 AM

Hey Randy, I think you need to increase the lower scale on your x axis

You mean to see shorter times than 2 minutes? The point is it is fast.

Also, if you add vineagar to your water to increase the saturation point, aren't you just back at square one?

Square one??? I've not measured the see what conductivity you get at saturation with any given amount of vinegar, if that is what you mean, buy the method will work.

Randy isn't a 1:20 ratio between Alk and Ca ?

like 40 MeQ/L and 800ppm Ca ?

Yes.

OwenInAZ · 02/16/2009, 08:17 AM

Randy -- I guess I mean that if you're lowering pH to get more Ca(OH)2 to go into solution, aren't you just taking up your hydroniums and raising the pH back up? It's been a while since I took formal chemistry classes, but I use the principles every day, and it seems to me that's sort of a backwards way of increasing the amount you can dissolve.

And for the graph, yeah I'd like to see the linear portion of the curve, even if it is fast

Randy Holmes-Farley · 02/16/2009, 10:42 AM

and it seems to me that's sort of a backwards way of increasing the amount you can dissolve.

I still don't get the concern. You are taking some of the OH- and converting it to acetate. At saturation, the pH doesn't' change very much, but it is a tiny bit lower. Still probably 12.3+.

And for the graph, yeah I'd like to see the linear portion of the curve, even if it is fast

Sorry, I don't have a good way to mix uniformly that fast. As a practical matter, you couldn't stir limewater in a trash can for 10 seconds and stop, as it will continue swirling.

OwenInAZ · 02/16/2009, 11:15 AM

Mostly I'm just being a geek with the graph, I understand the limitations of equipment

Won't there already be a lot of acetate around with the vineagar in solution already?

Randy Holmes-Farley · 02/16/2009, 12:16 PM

There is not that much acetate in straight vinegar. Most of it is acetic acid.

OwenInAZ · 02/16/2009, 12:32 PM

True, but it occurs to me that as it ionizes in water it will yield acetate. Maybe I'm wrong, OChem wasn't a ton of fun for me. Had to get through it to get to biochem, which is where the fun's at!

01/11/2009, 05:57 PM	#1
ethank77 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Sabine Pass Texas Posts: 346	mrs. Wages how much How much mrs Wages do I disolve in 1 gal rodi. __________________ mannais

01/11/2009, 06:49 PM	#2
reefnetworth Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 3,843	one tablespoon per gallon will give you appx. 14.0 Alk. __________________ GIVE A MAN A FISH, YOU FEED HIM FOR A DAY. TEACH A MAN TO FISH, HE FEEDS HIMSELF FOR LIFE. (NEVER, underestimate another man's greed) Current Tank Info: SPS dominated barebottom display with BB sump since 2005, most consistant parameters in 19+ years of reefkeeping.

01/11/2009, 06:52 PM	#3
reefnetworth Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 3,843	give a man a fish, feed him for a day, teach a man to fish he will sit in the boat and drink beer all day. i dont drink beer, but i love to eat Salmon, the other pink meat! __________________ GIVE A MAN A FISH, YOU FEED HIM FOR A DAY. TEACH A MAN TO FISH, HE FEEDS HIMSELF FOR LIFE. (NEVER, underestimate another man's greed) Current Tank Info: SPS dominated barebottom display with BB sump since 2005, most consistant parameters in 19+ years of reefkeeping.

01/12/2009, 03:45 AM	#5
HighlandReefer Team RC Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Highland, Maryland Entomologist Posts: 14,416	Usually it is recommended that you start with 1 teaspoon of kalk per gallon of rodi for adding to your top-off. Kalk is saturated at around 2 teaspoons per gallon of rodi. What Your Grandmother Never Told You About Lime http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.htm __________________ Cliff Babcock Intestests: Digital Microscopy; Marine Pest Control; Marine Plants & Macroalgae Current Tank Info: 180 g. mixed reef system

01/12/2009, 06:18 AM	#6
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 81,937	one tablespoon per gallon will give you limewater. 14.0 Alk. What does that mean? 14 in what units? In the limewater or the aquarium? __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Club 65535 Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

01/11/2009, 06:55 PM	#4
Logzor Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Kenwood, Ohio Posts: 3,966	If you are trying to create a limewater that is not fully saturated ignored below: I used to be careful and drop in the exact amount but now I just dump like half the container in my topoff container because the water can only be saturated so much.

01/12/2009, 10:54 PM	#8
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 68,459	The saturation limit is 2 tsp per gallon. That can be increased by adding vinegar to the mix. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

01/13/2009, 04:49 PM	#10
Logzor Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Kenwood, Ohio Posts: 3,966	If you have a large reservoir you can just dump a bunch in there and just add water when you need to. Eventually you will get this lazy!

01/14/2009, 06:13 AM	#11
ricwilli Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 839	How do you know when to dump more in the reservoir? Meaning, would I have to test the reservoir water often to see when it starts getting below 14 dkh? __________________ If you buy cheap solution, be prepare for it's limitation.

01/14/2009, 06:40 AM	#12
Logzor Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Kenwood, Ohio Posts: 3,966	I have no idea I just dump in a bunch every once in while. Thats a good question though. I suppose if I notice my alk dipping I know it is not saturated. Considering how much I dump I I doubt I will ever have this problem. Mrs. Wages is cheap.

01/14/2009, 06:52 AM	#14
Logzor Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Kenwood, Ohio Posts: 3,966	How do I measure conductivity? One finger in the socket and the other in the limewater reservoir?

01/14/2009, 07:06 AM	#15
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 81,937	A conductivity meter that can measure about 10 mS/cm will work, like the Pinpoint Salinity meter. You can also try to measure the calcium or alkalinity when the solution is clear and settled (saturated is about 80 ppm calcium or 40 meq/l (112 dKH) for alkalinity). pH can be used crudely. __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Club 65535 Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

01/14/2009, 08:05 AM	#16
ricwilli Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 839	Randy, can you tell me how I can use my Pinpoint Salinity meter to measure the conductivity? What should I be looking for? __________________ If you buy cheap solution, be prepare for it's limitation.

01/14/2009, 08:08 AM	#17
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 81,937	Saturation is about 10.3 mS/cm, and potency is about linear with conductivity, so 5 mS/cm is about half saturated. I show its use here: The Degradation of Limewater in Air http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...ture/index.php from it: Figure 1. The conductivity of limewater as a function of the time after the addition of calcium oxide at 21 Â°C. __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Club 65535 Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

02/15/2009, 08:55 PM	#18
OwenInAZ Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Posts: 2,409	Hey Randy, I think you need to increase the lower scale on your x axis Also, if you add vineagar to your water to increase the saturation point, aren't you just back at square one? __________________ Owen Professional Bacteria Geek "Ree... cy... cling?" "One day it's a bowl full of cherries, one night I'm suckin' on lemons and spittin' out the seeds" Current Tank Info: 90 gallon tall reef

02/15/2009, 09:49 PM	#19
Icefire Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: In Quebec, Canada Posts: 3,263	Randy isn't a 1:20 ratio between Alk and Ca ? like 40 MeQ/L and 800ppm Ca ? __________________ 2 black Onyx, 2 P. cardinal, 3 Lyretail anthias, 1 y. watchman goby, 1 Foxface, 1 Lieutenant Tang, 1 Mandarin, 5 clown gobies, 3 chromis Mixed reef Alk 8.5, Ca 400, Mg 1250, SG 1.025, PO4/NO3 0 Current Tank Info: 110G display, 50G refugium, 180 LBS LR/BR, 120lbs sand, Vertex 250 Skimmer, Phosban reactor 300W heater, 333W T5HO, OR3500 return , 4 Tunze 6025 @ 4800GPH, 8w UV, RO/DI

02/16/2009, 07:23 AM	#20
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 81,937	Hey Randy, I think you need to increase the lower scale on your x axis You mean to see shorter times than 2 minutes? The point is it is fast. Also, if you add vineagar to your water to increase the saturation point, aren't you just back at square one? Square one??? I've not measured the see what conductivity you get at saturation with any given amount of vinegar, if that is what you mean, buy the method will work. Randy isn't a 1:20 ratio between Alk and Ca ? like 40 MeQ/L and 800ppm Ca ? Yes. __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Club 65535 Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

02/16/2009, 08:17 AM	#21
OwenInAZ Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Posts: 2,409	Randy -- I guess I mean that if you're lowering pH to get more Ca(OH)2 to go into solution, aren't you just taking up your hydroniums and raising the pH back up? It's been a while since I took formal chemistry classes, but I use the principles every day, and it seems to me that's sort of a backwards way of increasing the amount you can dissolve. And for the graph, yeah I'd like to see the linear portion of the curve, even if it is fast __________________ Owen Professional Bacteria Geek "Ree... cy... cling?" "One day it's a bowl full of cherries, one night I'm suckin' on lemons and spittin' out the seeds" Current Tank Info: 90 gallon tall reef

02/16/2009, 10:42 AM	#22
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 81,937	and it seems to me that's sort of a backwards way of increasing the amount you can dissolve. I still don't get the concern. You are taking some of the OH- and converting it to acetate. At saturation, the pH doesn't' change very much, but it is a tiny bit lower. Still probably 12.3+. And for the graph, yeah I'd like to see the linear portion of the curve, even if it is fast Sorry, I don't have a good way to mix uniformly that fast. As a practical matter, you couldn't stir limewater in a trash can for 10 seconds and stop, as it will continue swirling. __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Club 65535 Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

02/16/2009, 11:15 AM	#23
OwenInAZ Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Posts: 2,409	Mostly I'm just being a geek with the graph, I understand the limitations of equipment Won't there already be a lot of acetate around with the vineagar in solution already? __________________ Owen Professional Bacteria Geek "Ree... cy... cling?" "One day it's a bowl full of cherries, one night I'm suckin' on lemons and spittin' out the seeds" Current Tank Info: 90 gallon tall reef

02/16/2009, 12:16 PM	#24
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 81,937	There is not that much acetate in straight vinegar. Most of it is acetic acid. __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Club 65535 Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

02/16/2009, 12:32 PM	#25
OwenInAZ Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Posts: 2,409	True, but it occurs to me that as it ionizes in water it will yield acetate. Maybe I'm wrong, OChem wasn't a ton of fun for me. Had to get through it to get to biochem, which is where the fun's at! __________________ Owen Professional Bacteria Geek "Ree... cy... cling?" "One day it's a bowl full of cherries, one night I'm suckin' on lemons and spittin' out the seeds" Current Tank Info: 90 gallon tall reef